Garn hydronic design

Antman Posted By Antman, Dec 31, 2015 at 7:18 AM

  1. Antman

    Antman
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    Sep 27, 2015
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    My drawing doesn't show air eliminators although I do have those planned for the closed side. The Garn-side of the FPHX is open, but I was under the impression that putting the circ down low would guard against cavitation.
     
  2. leon

    leon
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    Even with flooded suction on a circulator you can
    have an entrained air problem and water hammer. I really want to see that you talk
    to the systems engineer from TACO or B+G who is also a sales rep in your state.

    Two hours work+- and they will have this system ready for you to install.
     
  3. Antman

    Antman
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    now that i have my loop lengths I call them. more to come... merry christmas to all!
     
  4. Bob Rohr

    Bob Rohr
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    What about a two pump with zone valve solution?

    I'd pump into the Garn, pump mounted low, since it is an open system.

    For the distribution a single delta P circulator with two zone valves. Pump away from a single expansion tank and expansion tank
     

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  5. Antman

    Antman
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  6. Antman

    Antman
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    I
    Garn recommends dropping the supply line down and pumping away from the water level of the Garn (which approximates the PONCP). I am curious why you recommend putting on the return? Does it have to do with cooler temps on the boiler pump and do you see it as pumping toward the PONPC?

    And, thank you very much for your diagram. Could anyone please comment on whether a delta P pump with zone valves in the Garn Barn in any way simplifies and hopefully eliminates the need for 300 ft underground control lines as opposed to just using delta T circs which seems to necessitate underground control lines?
     
  7. maple1

    maple1
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    'Control lines'?

    Are stat wires control lines? Cause I think you would need wires between the thermostats in the house, and the zone valves in the barn?

    But if the zone valves & dP pump were in the house, you shouldn't need wiring between the house & barn - I don't think.
     
  8. Antman

    Antman
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    By control lines I mean the wires that will turn on the pumps in the Garn Barn - I guess those would be stat wires underground if I were to put delta T circs to each of the houses in the Garn Barn. I cannot see any way to run lines underground that far, although I do have several extra pex lines if I need.

    What I am trying to determine is whether or not putting a single delta P circ in the Garn Barn as suggested by Hot Rod, could that eliminate having to put control lines underground?

    So, if I have a dP circ like the Taco Viridian VR 3452 in the Garn Barn, could I put a zone valve in each house (each 300' away from the Garn Barn) such that when there is a call for heat in one of the houses, its zone valve opens and the VR 3452 ramps up by sensing the change in pressure due to that zone valve opening?

    If so, could I then put a flow switch in the Garn Barn which would trigger the boiler circ (0010 setpoint circulator) and this would eliminate the need for any 300' underground triggering wire?

    I am open to any other suggestions. Thank you
     

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  9. Antman

    Antman
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    Sep 27, 2015
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    The specific feedback I am looking for is:

    1. What kind of cable should I put in my 300' underground runs to start the primary circ in the Garn Barn?
    2. Could that same cable also start the boiler circ or would it be better to have a flow switch triggered by the primary circ start the boiler circ?
     
  10. Antman

    Antman
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    IMG_9373.JPG IMG_9373.JPG IMG_9091 copy.jpg IMG_6872 copy.jpg IMG_6551 copy.jpg IMG_9091 copy.jpg IMG_6872 copy.jpg I put a SS boiler pump down low on the return side of the open loop back to the Garn. I have pressurized the manifold and fixed all leaks on both the open side and closed side of the heat exchanger. Can the glycol feeder be used to clean the pipes before filling? If so, how? Any suggestions on cleaning solutions down here in the Memphis area? Can anyone see any glaring problems with my plumbing before I start filling?
     
  11. Antman

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    Also, can anyone suggest what kind of wire to run 300' underground to be used for 24v controls, please?
     
  12. leon

    leon
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    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I would just use water and check your strainers more often if you are worried about cleaning your piping.
     
  13. leon

    leon
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    ============================================================================

    16 gauge stranded wire but I would not do anything until you compensate for line drop of at least 10% so you may not be able to manage the needed 24 volts AC.

    Your going to have to talk to an electrical wire supplier to be sure as the line drop power loss is the major issue.


    Edited to correct my mistake.
     
  14. Antman

    Antman
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    I have contacted a couple of HVAC friends and electrician, and, to clarify, the controls are 24V AC
     
  15. surefire

    surefire
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    Antman, thanks for this thread. It's been informative and watching your planning and attention to detail has been an inspiration. It's exciting to see your project progressing; please keep the photos coming!
     
  16. Antman

    Antman
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    We are about to finish the distribution system but could someone please answer this - can I use a single FPHX to keep both tanks shown here in series hot? I was planning to insert a 20 plate FPHX between the blue valve at the cold water inlet and the first hot water tank but I wasn’t sure if it would heat both tanks or not?
     

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  17. Buzz Saw

    Buzz Saw
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    Are you going to run a circulation pump to loop the water through the FPHX multiple times to bring the water up to temp? A single pass through a 20 plate won't be enough to warm the water to 125*(so I've been told).

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     
  18. Antman

    Antman
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    Sep 27, 2015
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    Yes I plan to have a circ on the boiler side so that when cold well water replaces the hot water being used at the fixtures, that cold water goes through the FPHX and get heated by the boiler water which will probably somewhere between 150-180F since I have 3 fan coils, a pool and spa tube and shell hx, and a towel warmer, which I think are all high-temp emitters.
     

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