Harman Oakwood versus Regency and Hampton stoves

[botemout]

I'm a new wood stove owner (having just bought a farm in upstate NY).
Since we want to go completely wood (we also have a oil burner baseboard
radiator system), we're shopping for a 2nd stove to put in the front of the house
(near the stairs).

I've been really impressed with the Harman Oakwood but the price
(after paying for a chimney, stand, installation, etc...) is a little more
than I want to spend (~$2100 + tax for the stove alone). Today we
looked at Regency and Hampton stoves. I wasn't completely persuaded
by the salesperson that the Hampton was the "Cadillac of wood stoves."
Anyone have an option about these stoves? The price is roughly
comparable to the Harman (a couple hundred cheaper for one of the models).
Are they of comparable quality? Do they perform similiarly. I'm interested in
long burn times (I've been getting up in the middle of the night to reload
the stove) and the ability to burn efficiently when damped down
(since I fear the stove overheating the room in which it's placed).

John

 

[iceman]

I'm a new wood stove owner (having just bought a farm in upstate NY).
Since we want to go completely wood (we also have a oil burner baseboard
radiator system), we're shopping for a 2nd stove to put in the front of the house
(near the stairs).

I've been really impressed with the Harman Oakwood but the price
(after paying for a chimney, stand, installation, etc...) is a little more
than I want to spend (~$2100 + tax for the stove alone). Today we
looked at Regency and Hampton stoves. I wasn't completely persuaded
by the salesperson that the Hampton was the "Cadillac of wood stoves."
Anyone have an option about these stoves? The price is roughly
comparable to the Harman (a couple hundred cheaper for one of the models).
Are they of comparable quality? Do they perform similiarly. I'm interested in
long burn times (I've been getting up in the middle of the night to reload
the stove) and the ability to burn efficiently when damped down
(since I fear the stove overheating the room in which it's placed).

John

i used to have a harman exception and i loved the top loading feature!
however i did see a regency/ hampton and there are differences between the two
the quality on the door seemed to be better with the regency/hampton... but i know for a fact my harman was awesome! gave lots of heat HUGE ash pan!
you won't go wrong either way

 

[botemout]

Yeah a friend of mine has the Exception; that got me looking at the Harman line.
His wife had done a lot of research and came to the conclusion that they
were the best stove available (at least for what she was looking for). They
only paid $1850 for their model 200T; the 300 is out now and it's about
$2200 (if it was still $1850 I'd already have bought it).

 

[Gooserider]

As a note, it does seem like many of our users have reported problems with the downdraft burning stoves including the Harman Oakwood, the VC-non-cats and the Lopi Leyden... It seems these stoves require better than average draft and a bit more babysitting and futzing with to get the most out of them. Most of the reported problems have been with VC's, but I think that is only because we have more active VC owners on the forum.

If you like the top load, the Quad IR, and the VC cat models seem to have many fans (I'll admit to bias in favor of my VC Encore-Cat) and fewer reported issues

Otherwise there are many good stoves out there, it is hard to get a bad stove these days, it's basically a question of figure out the size you need, desired features, and pick your look (Getting a good WAF is vital... :coolsmile: )

Another possible option since you already have baseboard heat is a gasification wood boiler - more expensive up front, and a lot more work to get everything working but some of our members have reported really amazing results with them, you might want to talk to the folks in the "Boiler Room" about your current oil burner setup and see if that route appeals to you.

Gooserider

 

[BJN644]

I have the Oakwood and I felt it the build quality of the stove was much better than other brands I looked at. I also know that price varies, I was quoted $2100 for a black painted model here in Maine, I purchased one from a dealer in New Hampshire for $1650.

I have had several different stoves over the past 20 years, this one is a little different. If you plan on burning it 24/7 you will like it, the top loading feature is great and you can really load this stove up. If you plan on burning it from a cold start often you might find it a pain. The stove needs a good bed of hot coals for the secondary burn to happen, I find this takes about an hour and a half of burning with the damper open. Once it's good and hot it seems to work good, but I'll admit I had to play around with it to figure out what it likes to sustain the secondary burn, and I'm sure every installation will be different. As far as long burns go, it was around 10 to 15 degrees here in Maine last night, I loaded the stove up about 3/4 full of wood, set the air around 1/4 open and 10 hours later I still had a thick bed of hot coals enough to throw in some fresh wood and have the secondary burn take off.

The Harmon line also has a few cool accessories too, I purchased the cooking grill for mine and can BBQ right in the house without any smoke.

 

[James04]

$2100 is full retail. In fact I think it is $2065 MSRP. More than one dealer in my area quoted me $1800 for the Oakwood. I got the TL300 for $2000.

James

 

[TReuter]

I just installed the Oakwood, and am learning as I go. The instruction manual leaves a lot to be desired. when I added the stove top thermometer, I finally felt like I could monitor what was going on.

But I would still like to your feedback on temperature guidelines: what is an optimal temperature for a clean burn, at what temperature can you transition to the secondary burn (close the bypass damper)?

Any other suggestions would be welcome for this newbie.

Thomas

 

[begreen]

Hey John, welcome. The Oakwood is a fine stove, comparing it to the Regency/Hampton is not really appropriate as the Oakwood is a different type of stove (top-loader, cast iron) than the Regency (front-load, steel). As to the "Cadillac" of stoves, that's sales nonsense. Remember there are also Lincolns, Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus (Lexi?) etc. out there too.

Seeing that this is a second stove, how large an area are you trying to heat with it? If you are looking for a mid-sized stove, the VC Encore (catalytic) stove or the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 (non-cat) have nice long burn times. If the stove is going to be heating 24/7 have you considered a soapstone stove? I'm wondering if a Woodstock Fireview (cat, soapstone) might work for you? They are sold direct to the customer from Vermont and have a good following here.

Here's another thought: Instead of stoking 2 wood stoves 24/7 have you thought about installing a gasifier wood boiler tied into the hot water system? If you have, post questions in the boiler room forum on this site. There are some experts there (including Eric in your same area) that can help you.

 

[swestall]

One thing you also might want to consider is to go back to your dealer and see if anyone upgraded and traded in a good EPA qualified stove; you can often get a good deal on the used stock from a dealer.

 

[James04]

I just installed the Oakwood, and am learning as I go. The instruction manual leaves a lot to be desired. when I added the stove top thermometer, I finally felt like I could monitor what was going on.

But I would still like to your feedback on temperature guidelines: what is an optimal temperature for a clean burn, at what temperature can you transition to the secondary burn (close the bypass damper)?

Any other suggestions would be welcome for this newbie.

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

You may also want to get a probe type thermometer for your stove pipe. This will really give you a sense for what the stove is doing. I have the next size Harman stove. The Tl300. I find that for the best performance and less waiting for the coal bed to be established. You should start with plenty of kindling and small splits. Get that going nice and hot with the bypass open and full primary air. Once it is blazing nice cut the primary air back until the flames are no longer rocketing up into the flue. Just look through the window and watch the flames as you adjust the air. The idea is not to over heat the stove pipe and get more of the heat out of this first load. Once that load gets to the coal stage (all pieces should be glowing red). You can then move them around in order to get them near the throat of the secondary burn chamber. Then you can reload with fresh wood. Once reloaded let the new load get nice and hot. Around 550 stove top and 800 flu. You can then close the bypass and let it burn with full air for 5 to 10 minutes. Then cut the air back to the desired burn rate. Third notch on my stove is nice and hot 550 or more and second notch for overnight burns (450-500). This will vary with the type of wood and how seasoned it is.

James

 

[TReuter]

James:

Thanks for your detailed reply. I spend most of the afternoon trying out your system, taking notes every 15 to 30 minutes on room temp, damper settings, stove temp. A pattern is emerging.

Re-reading your post, I realized that I probably sent too many flames up the flue, but I am getting there.

Regarding your notches, do you have 16 notches (the Oakwood does)?

I wonder if your second notch corresponds to my second notch, which would only allow for 12% damper (assuming that one notch is almost closed).

Thanks again for your time,

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

You may also want to get a probe type thermometer for your stove pipe. This will really give you a sense for what the stove is doing. I have the next size Harman stove. The Tl300. I find that for the best performance and less waiting for the coal bed to be established. You should start with plenty of kindling and small splits. Get that going nice and hot with the bypass open and full primary air. Once it is blazing nice cut the primary air back until the flames are no longer rocketing up into the flue. Just look through the window and watch the flames as you adjust the air. The idea is not to over heat the stove pipe and get more of the heat out of this first load. Once that load gets to the coal stage (all pieces should be glowing red). You can then move them around in order to get them near the throat of the secondary burn chamber. Then you can reload with fresh wood. Once reloaded let the new load get nice and hot. Around 550 stove top and 800 flu. You can then close the bypass and let it burn with full air for 5 to 10 minutes. Then cut the air back to the desired burn rate. Third notch on my stove is nice and hot 550 or more and second notch for overnight burns (450-500). This will vary with the type of wood and how seasoned it is.

James

 

[James04]

Thomas,

Sorry, my stove only has a total of four notches. The total travel of the slider is 4 3/4". The fist notch is at 1/2" second at 1" the third at 1.5" and the fourth at 2 3/8" (50%). After that there are no notches till the end. I am sure that this indicates the normal operational zone to be 50% air or less. So my second notch is about 20% and third about 30%. I hope that helps.

It would be nice if you could keep us updated with your findings. If you have a chance please look up the thread My everburn procedure https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/10996/ . It discusses other downdraft stoves.

James

 

[TReuter]

James,

I tried a different tack the last couple of days: keep the stove full, the coal bed deep. It seems very happy.

I did notice that when we talk about stove top temperature, I have two "zones" on my stove top: 1 - the back quarter that ties into the flue, and 2 - the front three fourths (including top "lid").

Right now, there is a 175 degree difference, with the front portion reading 600 degrees and the back portion reading 425. At first I thought the burning was going into a nose dive, but the coals looked great.

So, which temperature location would be better to monitor? Should I get two thermostats? (Since my stove feeds right into the chimney flue, I do not have access to the flue temperature. The little flue I do see is stainless steel, and the magnetic thermometer does not adhere.)

I have read a number of posts regarding the flue temp being lower that the stove top temp. At what point is the flue temp too low?

Suggestions? Observations?

Thomas

 

[James04]

Other stove technology experience the lower flue gas temp than stove top. With the down draft the gases are being burnt in a chamber just before going up the flue and that is the hottest part of the stove. That is why a recommended the probe type thermometer. It will let you know if you are getting good secondary burn. I can have 450 stove top and over 1000 flue if there is a big load of fresh wood off gassing. Once all the gases are gone (coal stage) the two temps will match each other. How much space is there between the stove collar and the point were it goes into the chimney? This thermometer goes into a 1/4 inch hole that gets drilled into the stove pipe. However they recommend it be at least 18 inched above the stove.

(broken link removed)

James

 

[webbie]

As a note, it does seem like many of our users have reported problems with the downdraft burning stoves including the Harman Oakwood, the VC-non-cats and the Lopi Leyden... It seems these stoves require better than average draft and a bit more babysitting and futzing with to get the most out of them. Most of the reported problems have been with VC's, but I think that is only because we have more active VC owners on the forum.

I think it's best not to lump downdraft and crossdraft stoves all together.....at least until we have some more info.

I am trying to get a bit more info as to how the designs differ, and do far only a few takers (I should say "talkers" - the lab folks, the makers, etc).....

BUT, I can confirm from a very close contact that the Harman down draft unit was tested extensively in house (Harman), and was tuned to burn cordwood better - in fact, the decision was made to allow the EPA numbers (grams per hour) to be HIGHER because Harman wanted the stove to operate better with cord wood.
That in itself does not mean they succeeded, but since some downdraft stoves (Acclaim, etc.) seem to work 100% fine in just about all situations, I don't want to lump all these together.

Are there differences in combustion systems? Yes. It used to be we considered only two or three:
1. Cat stoves generally took longer to heat up from a cold start
2. Non cat stove generally heated up quickly, but did not have as big of a firebox (in some cases) and would not burn as long.

To those two, we have to add at least these other two:
3. heavy mass stoves - cat or no cat (soapstone, etc.) take a little longer to come up to temperature, but hold heat more on the other end (fire can go out, and stove stays warm longer)
4. Downdraft stoves are more similar to Cat stoves in that they require a longer warm-up period.

As far as the fussiness of them, I would want to take it on a stove by stove basis, whether within one manufacturer or among all. I have not seen (or maybe I missed) Oakwood owners here that are ready to sell their stoves, nor Acclaim owners, nor Leyden owners.

Maybe I am being too cautious, but one brush should not paint a proven technology.....the basic idea of the system works. The question is probably BOTH which model a person should choose (don't under size a downdraft!), and also whether the buyer knows about the nuances of the stove they are purchasing.

Maybe I will feel differently once I burn a few of them, but it's hard to imagine the crew at Harman or Travis letting a wood stove get out the door that is not generally satisfactory. I didn't include VC in that list....but only because of the possible confusion during the last "transfer" of the company. No doubt that things at VC are not as personal (example, same folks working at Travis as 20+ years ago, etc.)....and the last (pre-2005) owners and managers of the company admittedly did not have the same high standards that were set by some of the earlier owners.

 

[James04]

James,

I tried a different tack the last couple of days: keep the stove full, the coal bed deep. It seems very happy.

I did notice that when we talk about stove top temperature, I have two "zones" on my stove top: 1 - the back quarter that ties into the flue, and 2 - the front three fourths (including top "lid").

Right now, there is a 175 degree difference, with the front portion reading 600 degrees and the back portion reading 425. At first I thought the burning was going into a nose dive, but the coals looked great.

So, which temperature location would be better to monitor? Should I get two thermostats? (Since my stove feeds right into the chimney flue, I do not have access to the flue temperature. The little flue I do see is stainless steel, and the magnetic thermometer does not adhere.)

I have read a number of posts regarding the flue temp being lower that the stove top temp. At what point is the flue temp too low?

Suggestions? Observations?

Thomas

Erieman,

If you think you will not be able to get a probe thermometer in place. I would say just try to get your stove top temp (loading door) to above 500 before closing the bypass. As long as you have the three to four inch coal bed in front of the shoe you should be ok. The only way you will be able to tell if you had a stall will be the stove top will drop to under 400. This will take a while to register though. The other way would be to go outside and see if you are burning clean.

James

 

[TReuter]

James:

The flex pipe enters the chimney flue 8 inches above the top of the stove. The "T", fireplace opening, and flue height all worked perfectly - I had no room for error.

I will shift the thermometer around a bit during the various burning stages to get a feel for the dynamics.

Thanks for your post,

Thomas

Other stove technology experience the lower flue gas temp than stove top. With the down draft the gases are being burnt in a chamber just before going up the flue and that is the hottest part of the stove. That is why a recommended the probe type thermometer. It will let you know if you are getting good secondary burn. I can have 450 stove top and over 1000 flue if there is a big load of fresh wood off gassing. Once all the gases are gone (coal stage) the two temps will match each other. How much space is there between the stove collar and the point were it goes into the chimney? This thermometer goes into a 1/4 inch hole that gets drilled into the stove pipe. However they recommend it be at least 18 inched above the stove.

(broken link removed)

James

 

[TReuter]

As a new Harmon Oakwood owner / user, I am pleasantly surprised at how well it works, once I learned some basic operating principles.

Harmon's owner's manual left me floundering - if I had not found this forum, I would be selling my stove.

I have also had to adjust my expectations: I wanted this stove to be a sole source of heat (24/7), but with my wife wanting a warm bathroom while gets ready for her job, I'd rather get a boost from the gas heater than get up a 4 am to tend the fire.

Re-evaluating my expectations, being patient, paying attention - all are working together for me right now to figure out how we incorporate this new family member.

Again, thanks for moderating and maintaining this wonderful resource.

Thomas

As far as the fussiness of them, I would want to take it on a stove by stove basis, whether within one manufacturer or among all. I have not seen (or maybe I missed) Oakwood owners here that are ready to sell their stoves, nor Acclaim owners, nor Leyden owners.

 

[TReuter]

Erieman,

If you think you will not be able to get a probe thermometer in place. I would say just try to get your stove top temp (loading door) to above 500 before closing the bypass. As long as you have the three to four inch coal bed in front of the shoe you should be ok. The only way you will be able to tell if you had a stall will be the stove top will drop to under 400. This will take a while to register though. The other way would be to go outside and see if you are burning clean.

James

That's helpful.

Thomas

 

[webbie]

Oh, well, just when I thought it was safe to come out of the water:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/10143/#140661

It seems that the acclaim is having a different problem, the flash backs....not the same problems as to whether it achieves liftoff.

 

[swestall]

Craig, I'm OK with what you have said here. I still wonder whether or not the refractory shoe in the VC NC's could be opened up a bit to provide more air and enable greater reliability. And, I have not clue if VC is actually interested in resolving the design point sensitivity of this unit: wouldn't it be nice if they actually communicated concern or interest? In any event, most seem to find some way around it; including moving to another product.
But, you make great points regarding the variation in the designs of these units and which makes tremendous sense.
Thanks,Steve.