Harmon TL 2.0 or 2.6?

[mphilli2]

Have decided to get the Harmon TL 2.0 or 2.6 stove. I like the stove and have a dealer with a good reputation within 30 miles of my home. They will deliver for no extra charge. But I'm not sure about which size, in part because most manufacturers exaggerate the heating capacity or give you info that applies to very well insulated homes and warmer climate regions.

Wood will be my only heat, though I have propane backup if absolutely needed. Am in southern NY, cold & windy winters. Home is insulated, but not greatly so. Square footage is 1,300, but it's spread out (a little of it is 2 floors and rest is all one floor with several rooms.). There's a basement below the house; I'm not including that in the sqaure footage, as I don't need to heat it.
I want to heat with wood even when it's zero outside, hold a fire all night when I can, and yet not cook alive. Would rather go too large than too small, but still, there is such a thing as way too large.

Any experience/thoughts appreciated. Thanks much.

 

[begreen]

Welcome to hearth.com! Downdraft stoves can be draft sensitive. How tall will the flue be on this stove from stove top to the cap?

Harman's numbers are a bit optimistic. Based on reports here I don't think you are going to see greater than 8-10 hr burn times with this stove. If this brand is the final choice I'd go with the larger unit.

 

[mphilli2]

Welcome to hearth.com! Downdraft stoves can be draft sensitive. How tall will the flue be on this stove from stove top to the cap?

Harman's numbers are a bit optimistic. Based on reports here I don't think you are going to see greater than 8-10 hr burn times with this stove. If this brand is the final choice I'd go with the larger unit.

Thanks.

Re the chimney: It's an 8 inch with flue liner and surrounded by solid brick; goes up through both storeys of the house. Used it in past years with wood stoves without trouble--an old fashioned box stove and also a Quadra Fire. Then used it the past 10 years with a rice coal stove, no problems.

 

[begreen]

As they say in the financial world, past performance does not necessarily guarantee future gains. EPA stoves require more draft and downdraft stoves are notorious for stalling out when draft is poor. That can cause poor heating and back puffing. The TL series require 6", so going to 8" is going to reduce the force of the draft. That said, if the chimney is 25 ft tall draft may be adequate for decent performance. Was the Quadrafire an EPA stove or an older one?

 

[mphilli2]

As they say in the financial world, past performance does not necessarily guarantee future gains. EPA stoves require more draft and downdraft stoves are notorious for stalling out when draft is poor. That can cause poor heating and back puffing. The TL series require 6", so going to 8" is going to reduce the force of the draft. That said, if the chimney is 25 ft tall draft may be adequate for decent performance. Was the Quadrafire an EPA stove or an older one?

I assume the Quadra was an EPA, but I'm not sure. It was purchased new about 12 years ago and had the stainless burn tubes and produced little visible smoke or creosote. I didn't like it because I usally had to get up and reload it during the night--4 hr burns with that upper shield of flame and the bed of coals burning the wood from above and below. Maybe they burn longer now. It was an east-west and now they are north-south. Very well made stove, though, even back then. I'd like all night (8 hour) burns or at least a good bed of coals in morning. I'm not dead set on the Harmon, but strongly leaning that way.

The rice coal stove I would let burn on warm spring days (70s even) just so I would not have to fool with restarting it at night, and it was ok even with it turned to a low burn that produced little heat. No odor and the CO2 detector did not go off. . . . but I realize I'm talking apples & oranges.

Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

OK, sounds like an EPA Quadrafire. Perhaps the firebox was just too small for a long burn or the stove was undersized for the heating needs of the house? Longer burn times require enough fuel. Stove design also helps. The longest I have seen in a 2 cu ft, non-catalytic stove is with the mid-sized Pacific Energy stoves. But if the house is losing heat rapidly and the fire needs to be burned hotter to compensate, you may need a larger stove. Or address the house's heat loss for the fastest and best return on investment.

Another stove brand you might want to consider is a Blaze King. These stoves are catalytic and have exceptionally long burn times.

 

[mphilli2]

OK, sounds like an EPA Quadrafire. Perhaps the firebox was just too small for a long burn or the stove was undersized for the heating needs of the house? Longer burn times require enough fuel. Stove design also helps. The longest I have seen in a 2 cu ft, non-catalytic stove is with the mid-sized Pacific Energy stoves. But if the house is losing heat rapidly and the fire needs to be burned hotter to compensate, you may need a larger stove. Or address the house's heat loss for the fastest and best return on investment.

Another stove brand you might want to consider is a Blaze King. These stoves are catalytic and have exceptionally long burn times.

 

[mphilli2]

I'll see if a Blaze King deraler is in my neck of woods. Don't recall any, but maybe. I'd think about one. Catalytic stoves are hard to find these days. I'm glad someone is still making one.

 

[begreen]

Buck also makes catalytic stoves as well as Woodstock and Appalachian. Woodstock sells direct. But Blaze King has the title as far as the long burn goes. Lopi has a new hybrid called the Cape Cod that is cat and tubes. So far is seems like a good heater and good looking stove. webby3650 has one here.

 

[mellow]

Since you already have an 8" liner the Blaze King King or the Kuma Sequoia would be worth looking at. The King can be turned down, the Sequoia should be able to as well but maybe not as much as the King. Begreen already mentioned other manufacturers.

 

[aansorge]

Here is a used one...(broken link removed to http://albany.craigslist.org/hsh/3882047994.html)

...comes with a chimney which is worth a lot. You already have a chimney though so you could either just buy the stove and have them lower the price or sell the chimney.

I'm not sure on the year of the Blaze king....

 

[begreen]

Certainly worth a call. Ask for the model information from the UL label on the back of the stove. If this is a recent King or Princess model it could be a good deal. Wonder why they are selling it?

Caveat: The King is a very large stove.

 

[mphilli2]

Certainly worth a call. Ask for the model information from the UL label on the back of the stove. If this is a recent King or Princess model it could be a good deal. Wonder why they are selling it?

Caveat: The King is a very large stove.

I have decided against a Harmon after all. Reviews are mostly good, but some bad ones, too. And regarding the customer service, almost no one has a good word. Anyhow, I called Harmon to ask for a recommendation on stove size for my home (giving the guy all the details) and he would not make even a ballpark estimate. Said he'd have to do a heat loss study on my home before he could say. That finished me on Harmon.

I am pretty sure I will buy a Woodstock Fireview. Price right now is almost the same as for the Harmon stove I was eyeing. Reviews postive everywhere and the customer service experience was 100% different from what I had with Harmon. Shipping to a loading dock near my home will be $160 and I'll save that much in tax (NH has no sales tax). Fairly big decision, but I'm prety sure.

Thanks for the help.

 

[mellow]

Fireview is a nice stove, are you going to try exhausting it to the 8" liner?

 

[mphilli2]

Fireview is a nice stove, are you going to try exhausting it to the 8" liner?

Yes. I asked them about it and described my liner and chimney, and they didn't think it would be a problem given the chimney height and earlier uses. Why, do you think it will?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Yes. I asked them about it and described my liner and chimney, and they didn't think it would be a problem given the chimney height and earlier uses. Why, do you think it will?

I have a harman 300 in a 8" flue. Its a heating bear and would put out too much heat for your space as i easily heat 3000 SF from the basement with it. I find it heats for much longer than my other EPA stoves on a load of wood partly cuz i can get more wood into it and partly cuz its so dang effecient. I wound not hestitate to try one of their smaller stoves as i feel they put out a quality product. I have 2 other brands of EPA stoves im comparing it to.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have decided against a Harmon after all. Reviews are mostly good, but some bad ones, too. And regarding the customer service, almost no one has a good word. Anyhow, I called Harmon to ask for a recommendation on stove size for my home (giving the guy all the details) and he would not make even a ballpark estimate. Said he'd have to do a heat loss study on my home before he could say. That finished me on Harmon.
.

Dont bother to call harman as they handle customer service ONLY through the dealer. Get a good dealer get good service,get a bad dealer,get no service.

 

[fox9988]

Fireview and Keystone where designed with a 7" flue. If WS doesn't think the 8" is a problem, I wouldn't worry about it.
WS sells refurbished stoves if you want to save a few hundred $. You're going to love your new stove.

 

[rideau]

You will love the Fireview, its heating ability and ease of operation, its miserly wood consumption and wonderfully comfortable heat.

Also, try cooking on it. Very easy to do so.

I ordered a few extra top slabs for mine. They absorb and radiate heat during the day, are wrapped in a beach towel each and inserted at the foot of the bed under the covers ten minutes before bed time. Keep the bed toasty all night and are still warm in the morning. Also, the Fireview hearth (behind, beside and under the stove) works wonderfully as a warmer and dryer of mittens, hats, scarves and boots.
Small scraps of soapstone heated on the stove make great boot and glove warmers. Can even put small scraps of heated soapstone in your pocket in a spare set of mitts for a nice warm change on a cold day.

 

[mphilli2]

You will love the Fireview, its heating ability and ease of operation, its miserly wood consumption and wonderfully comfortable heat.

Also, try cooking on it. Very easy to do so.

I ordered a few extra top slabs for mine. They absorb and radiate heat during the day, are wrapped in a beach towel each and inserted at the foot of the bed under the covers ten minutes before bed time. Keep the bed toasty all night and are still warm in the morning. Also, the Fireview hearth (behind, beside and under the stove) works wonderfully as a warmer and dryer of mittens, hats, scarves and boots.
Small scraps of soapstone heated on the stove make great boot and glove warmers. Can even put small scraps of heated soapstone in your pocket in a spare set of mitts for a nice warm change on a cold day.

As I take measurements, I am running into a problem with the Woodstock, or actually, with my hearth location. My hearth is a very large flat rock mortared to a concrete floor, and I have not positioned previous stoves as the Woodstock would need to be positioned. I can't use a right side door, but Woodstock does make a few of this model with left side door. So that part of the problem is solved, but back clearance will still be close according Woodstock requirements. Looks like I'll need a heat shield on back of stove and some of the pipe, or will need to put some sort of shield against wall. As I figure that out, I'm looking at Blaze King as a second option. (A couple of dealers 60 miles from here.) I think I will have a fire inspector I know look at my situation, and then will decide.

 

[branchburner]

As mentioned earlier, I would also consider a Buck catalytic. I have a Harman, good stove but tricky and likes to burn HOT, so not great in fall and spring. Have also had parts need replacement much sooner than expected (burn chamber, fire bricks) as have others. I suspect it might be sensitive to an 8" flue, but some have had good luck with that.

Buck makes several stoves that take an 8" flue. If you go to the dealer locator on their site, you have one about 40mi.
I would think the Buck 80 would be a great choice for you:
(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/model-80.html)

 

[mellow]

Why, do you think it will?

Woodstock knows their stoves better than me, if they say it will work then it should work.

 

[mphilli2]

Woodstock knows their stoves better than me, if they say it will work then it should work.

Turns out I had the wrong measurements for the Fireview. I will be ok with a Fireview that has a left-side door--and so that's what I have ordered.

 

[begreen]

Good to hear it worked out for you. Take pictures of the install. We love to see new stoves going in.