Having trouble deciding on woodstove

[doogiegh]

I very much like my PE Summit. It has the same firebox as the T6, so a little bigger than what you are looking at. However, with my install, when I fire it up or reload it there is no walking away or leaving it for at least an hour. I have a strong draft and sometimes it wants to try to run hotter than I like. I have a key damper that really settled it down and now I have remote temperature monitoring so I can be somewhere else in the house and still watching the temp.

I guess my point is, operation is simple with no bypass and just one air control but it needs someone to look after it. Maybe with less draft it would not be an issue.

What do you use for remote air temperature monitoring? What kind of device cause that sounds really cool. Thanks

 

[Ashful]

I will say those two certainly are very good. But there are plenty of others that are without question just as good when it comes to performance. They may be the best at customer service but if you have a good dealer there are many others that are very good as well.

I actually just realized I made a typo: "these two brands are above all other at stove manufacturers ".

It should have read: "these two brands are above all other cat stove manufacturers."

What other cat stove manufacturers would you recommend, bholler? Back when I was shopping (2012 - 2014), it was real slim pickings, most cat stoves on the market (excepting these two brands) were either very old designs, outdated aesthetics, or worst of all... Vermont Castings. I remember hearing good things about Buck, I can't remember now why I took them off my list, and I think J.Roby has some cats out today that they did not have then.

I would freeze in my drafty old place going for a long burn time on a cat stove.

Yes, when it's blistering cold outside a 30-40 hour burn time is not likely to keep your home warm. But when it's 40F or 50F outside, and you still want some heat, it's nice to have the flexibility to turn down and go long. No one is saying you need to use any stove at it's minimum burn rate, all the time.

Case in point: I'm heating close to 7000 sq.ft. of very old house, in fact the room where I'm sitting and typing now was built 1734, and the window I'm looking out was "updated" in 1775. Drafty? We have 60 windows (I am reminded each time I pay to have them cleaned), 26 of which date to 1775, and more than a dozen exterior doors. In an effort to reduce the heating bills, I'm putting 7 cords per year thru one cat stove, and 3 cords per year thru a second. I'm not heating this place 100% on wood, but depending on how you split the hairs on my figuring, I'm saving up to $7000 in oil this year with the addition of wood.

Yes, I believe a non-cat may have a higher peak output than my cat stoves. But I can already rip thru a 2.9 cu.ft. firebox in 4-5 hours, when I want or need to, and I can tell you I'd not actually want to do that on any regular basis. If there's a stove out there with higher peak output than 120k BTU's/hour, it may have it's place, but not if I need to be keeping up with loading it at that rate.

I do see BK lists this stove at only 36k BTU's per hour maximum. I don't get it, they must have measured that on some pretty crappy wood. I can rip down a full 550k - 600k BTU load of white oak in about 5 hours, roughly 110 - 120k BTU/hr.

They actually have a second line of steel stoves that are a bit cheaper, in addition to the soapstone ones.

Good to know. I suspected that was the case.

 

[stoveliker]

^^that. The only things that matter are how much you can cram in there, and in what time range you can burn it (and with what efficiency).

I didn't know one could burn down a 3 cu ft BK in 5 hrs...

 

[bholler]

I actually just realized I made a typo: "these two brands are above all other at stove manufacturers ".

It should have read: "these two brands are above all other cat stove manufacturers."

What other cat stove manufacturers would you recommend, bholler? Back when I was shopping (2012 - 2014), it was real slim pickings, most cat stoves on the market (excepting these two brands) were either very old designs, outdated aesthetics, or worst of all... Vermont Castings. I remember hearing good things about Buck, I can't remember now why I took them off my list, and I think J.Roby has some cats out today that they did not have then.


Yes, when it's blistering cold outside a 30-40 hour burn time is not likely to keep your home warm. But when it's 40F or 50F outside, and you still want some heat, it's nice to have the flexibility to turn down and go long. No one is saying you need to use any stove at it's minimum burn rate, all the time.

Case in point: I'm heating close to 7000 sq.ft. of very old house, in fact the room where I'm sitting and typing now was built 1734, and the window I'm looking out was "updated" in 1775. Drafty? We have 60 windows (I am reminded each time I pay to have them cleaned), 26 of which date to 1775, and more than a dozen exterior doors. In an effort to reduce the heating bills, I'm putting 7 cords per year thru one cat stove, and 3 cords per year thru a second. I'm not heating this place 100% on wood, but depending on how you split the hairs on my figuring, I'm saving up to $7000 in oil this year with the addition of wood.

Yes, I believe a non-cat may have a higher peak output than my cat stoves. But I can already rip thru a 2.9 cu.ft. firebox in 4-5 hours, when I want or need to, and I can tell you I'd not actually want to do that on any regular basis. If there's a stove out there with higher peak output than 120k BTU's/hour, it may have it's place, but not if I need to be keeping up with loading it at that rate.

I do see BK lists this stove at only 36k BTU's per hour maximum. I don't get it, they must have measured that on some pretty crappy wood. I can rip down a full 550k - 600k BTU load of white oak in about 5 hours, roughly 110 - 120k BTU/hr.


Good to know. I suspected that was the case.

Regencies pro line of stoves are great performers. On par emissions and efficiency wise with bk and Woodstock.

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

I think as far as 2020 regs PE has had the least amount of issues, aka proven design so far, very few complaints other then wait times at time of ordering.
The basement, is it a walk out type of sub underground? Are you going to insulate it? do you have an existing chimney or are you planning a new class A? How tight is the house currently, do you suspect a negative draft issue developing?

The basement is not a walkout. It is completely buried in the dirt except for the south wall is 2' exposed concrete. It is currently insulated with r19 drape insulation. I am planning on new class a chimney...there is a perfect spot to run up between my floor joist with a 6" class a and build a chase around it in the living room against the kitchen wall then brick it to make it fancy. I thought I did a good job with making the house tight when I built it but silly me skimped out on windows to stay in budget and now I'm regretting that decision...🤦‍♂️

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

The other thing is (regarding cranking out peak performance) do you want a stove to carry all heat, even in the three worst days of winter? Or do you want a stove that can do well almost all the time, and you add a few gallons of oil (or whatever) to top up the stove output in those three worst days? (And then being able to heat nicely when it's 40-50 outside because of the turn down capability5 of the stove.)

My goal is to have the stoves carry all the heat. Propane is ridiculous I just forked out 566 bucks for 250 gallons of propane that was for December, January, and part of February...granted the HVAC system was installed incorrectly the first two times and fired that guy and the new system was installed in January and runs WAY better...but still propane is just plain expensive. I feel like if I pay 10 bucks a cord to go to cut my own wood from the national forest and use 4 or 5 cords a season plus gas and stuff I'm thinking I can heat the whole house all winter for like 200 bucks. The cost of the woodstove would pay for itself in like 4 years. We got some week long stretches this year of 10 to -26. Granted the -26 was one night but that whole week the high for nighttime was -2. That really sucked the propane that week. I had my valcourt blaring and furnace would run at the same time the fireplace was running. Bleeping cold for sure.

Edit: that 250 gallons was with running the valcourt 75% of the time. And the furnace kicks on every morning about 4-5 am because the valcourt just runs out of steam by then

 

[stoveliker]

Carry all the heat for the basement or for the whole home? (Given that you note a propane bill that is presumably for the whole house.)

Heating a 2300 sqft home from a basement is tough. HVAC ducts and fans generally do a poor job of moving such heat. In any case, the basement will be very toasty (possibly beyond being comfortable to be in) if you want to heat 2300 sqft from the basement.

 

[Ashful]

Here's the math you want to consider, adjust the numbers to correct my assumptions of your situation:

Usage coldest 3 months = 250 gal = 22.8M BTU-in = 20.5M BTU-out at 90% efficiency

You're in CO, so I'd assume primary fuel is crappy softwood = 15M BTU/cord

I'll assume average stove efficiency = 75%, suspecting the peak efficiencies listed in the marketing glossies are 5 to 10 points above average installed and operated efficiency, so BTU-in = 27.3M, or 1.8 cords for your coldest 3 months.

This is hardly high usage for any medium stove, being only roughly 2.56 cu.ft. per day average usage. As even a small 2.5 cubic foot stove running 3 loads per day will give 3:1 headroom over these numbers, I'd not worry too much about peak output.

That said, unless your basement is super well insulated, you may be throwing half your heat into the earth around your house. This may still be fine, you have room to triple your wood usage, with a 2.5 cu.ft. stove at 3 loads per day, but it is something to consider.

 

[begreen]

You're in CO, so I'd assume primary fuel is crappy softwood = 15M BTU/cord

That may be, however, some burn high mountain spruce which grows much slower and is very dense. The BTU charts don't show this. They also burn a lot of Pinon Pine, which is again, quite dense and has an output of about 23M BTU/cord. Down in the area of Ault, CO they also have regular hardwoods from fruit trees, maples, oak, osage orange, etc. available. It's when you get to western CO that pine becomes the more prevalent fuel.

Once the basement is finished, the heat loss will be less. A T5 or Jotul F45 would heat the basement and can provide a 10-12 hr burn between reloads. If the goal is to heat the whole house then a T6 or Jotul F55 might be a better fit, assuming that there is a good convection path for the heat to get upstairs and for the cold air to return to the basement.

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

Carry all the heat for the basement or for the whole home? (Given that you note a propane bill that is presumably for the whole house.)

Heating a 2300 sqft home from a basement is tough. HVAC ducts and fans generally do a poor job of moving such heat. In any case, the basement will be very toasty (possibly beyond being comfortable to be in) if you want to heat 2300 sqft from the basement.

You need to remember that I have the valcourt Lafayette 2 upstairs in the living room already. The Lafayette lacks when the temperature plummets below 10. I would still use the Lafayette for upstairs but the one in the basement would help supplement what the Lafayette is lacking. The Lafayette does well for upstairs above 10-15 but the floors are cold.I will be cutting a register in the floor in the hallway by the bedrooms that the heat can come from the basement. Also there are no cold air returns in the basement...therefore the theory would be if I leave the basement door open and have a vent in the floor if I turn on the fan it should suck the heat up out of the basement (thoughts?)
Also as far as being too hot goes...my wife likes it 75 in the house. So if the basement is 78-80 I don't think she'll mind.

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

That may be, however, some burn high mountain spruce which grows much slower and is very dense. The BTU charts don't show this. They also burn a lot of Pinon Pine, which is again, quite dense and has an output of about 23M BTU/cord. Down in the area of Ault, CO they also have regular hardwoods from fruit trees, maples, oak, osage orange, etc. available. It's when you get to western CO that pine becomes the more prevalent fuel.

Once the basement is finished, the heat loss will be less. A T5 or Jotul F45 would heat the basement and can provide a 10-12 hr burn between reloads. If the goal is to heat the whole house then a T6 or Jotul F55 might be a better fit, assuming that there is a good convection path for the heat to get upstairs and for the cold air to return to the basement.

You are correct about wood species. We also have a lot of elm and cottonwood in the area. Most likely I will be burning ash, maple, elm, locust, and spruce. I am still considering a t5 but am concerned about my wife keeping up on the air control during the day. Also having too much draft might burn through the wood quickly. What are your thoughts on the quadrafire with the ACC control?

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

Here's the math you want to consider, adjust the numbers to correct my assumptions of your situation:

Usage coldest 3 months = 250 gal = 22.8M BTU-in = 20.5M BTU-out at 90% efficiency

You're in CO, so I'd assume primary fuel is crappy softwood = 15M BTU/cord

I'll assume average stove efficiency = 75%, suspecting the peak efficiencies listed in the marketing glossies are 5 to 10 points above average installed and operated efficiency, so BTU-in = 27.3M, or 1.8 cords for your coldest 3 months.

This is hardly high usage for any medium stove, being only roughly 2.56 cu.ft. per day average usage. As even a small 2.5 cubic foot stove running 3 loads per day will give 3:1 headroom over these numbers, I'd not worry too much about peak output.

That said, unless your basement is super well insulated, you may be throwing half your heat into the earth around your house. This may still be fine, you have room to triple your wood usage, with a 2.5 cu.ft. stove at 3 loads per day, but it is something to consider.

The basement has r19 drape insulation currently. Will add r13 to the 2x4 walls once finished. So that's like having a 2x10 wall full of insulation. That's super thick.

 

[stoveliker]

You need to remember that I have the valcourt Lafayette 2 upstairs in the living room already. The Lafayette lacks when the temperature plummets below 10. I would still use the Lafayette for upstairs but the one in the basement would help supplement what the Lafayette is lacking. The Lafayette does well for upstairs above 10-15 but the floors are cold.I will be cutting a register in the floor in the hallway by the bedrooms that the heat can come from the basement. Also there are no cold air returns in the basement...therefore the theory would be if I leave the basement door open and have a vent in the floor if I turn on the fan it should suck the heat up out of the basement (thoughts?)
Also as far as being too hot goes...my wife likes it 75 in the house. So if the basement is 78-80 I don't think she'll mind.

Ok. So it won't carry all, it'll heat the floor and provide additional heat for the main floor. That's good.

Regarding vents. The first thing is to have a fire-safe configuration (i.e. check local code or ask your fire department).
I have the following.

Basement stove, open stairs to the main floor. I cut a register in the main floor, metal boot, fusible link fire damper, flexible duct. That duct goes between the joists to a sidewall where it comes down to the floor of the basement. At the bottom there I have an inline duct fan (188 CFM when running freely).

I use the fan to *suck* the coldest air from the main floor and deposit that on the floor of the basement. That puts the coldest air on the basement floor, pushing up the warmest air to the ceiling (keeping things stratified), which then rises through the stairs to the main floor.

This avoids forcibly sucking air from the stove area - always good in case you forget to open the basement door (CO, smoke, etc. - always safest to push air to a stove rather than pump it away from a stove room), it takes the coldest air from the living room and pushes up the warmest air. And it has the fan on the basement floor rather than connected to the joists of the living room floor (noise!).
And then I have a smoke/CO detectors (of course on all floors) but I added two right at the ceiling where the warm air drifts up into the stairwell from teh basement to the main floor.

This works well for me.

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

Ok. So it won't carry all, it'll heat the floor and provide additional heat for the main floor. That's good.

Regarding vents. The first thing is to have a fire-safe configuration (i.e. check local code or ask your fire department).
I have the following.

Basement stove, open stairs to the main floor. I cut a register in the main floor, metal boot, fusible link fire damper, flexible duct. That duct goes between the joists to a sidewall where it comes down to the floor of the basement. At the bottom there I have an inline duct fan (188 CFM when running freely).

I use the fan to *suck* the coldest air from the main floor and deposit that on the floor of the basement. That puts the coldest air on the basement floor, pushing up the warmest air to the ceiling (keeping things stratified), which then rises through the stairs to the main floor.

This avoids forcibly sucking air from the stove area - always good in case you forget to open the basement door (CO, smoke, etc. - always safest to push air to a stove rather than pump it away from a stove room), it takes the coldest air from the living room and pushes up the warmest air. And it has the fan on the basement floor rather than connected to the joists of the living room floor (noise!).
And then I have a smoke/CO detectors (of course on all floors) but I added two right at the ceiling where the warm air drifts up into the stairwell from teh basement to the main floor.

This works well for me.

That sounds like a great idea! Mind if I steal it? 🤣

 

[stoveliker]

That sounds like a great idea! Mind if I steal it? 🤣

That's what online forums are for...

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

If this helps here are my house plans. Just don't steal them and build one without asking me first! 🤣

 

[stoveliker]

I don't know what spaces you want to heat (LR heated enough by the fireplace there?). Kitchen? Bedrooms?

Your bedrooms, office etc. will remain colder, unless you add some vents there too (those may need to be larger, and you'd have to tune how far you open the door of the stairwell to balance flows). If you do this, a 6" duct and fan may not be enough (i.e. go 8" or 10").

The issue is that you have quite a few small rooms with limited airflow "circuit" options unless you make a lot of holes in floors. I wonder if your issue with the heat output of the Valcourt for your home is more of a lay-out issue rather than a fireplace sizing issue?

To heat all spaces, you need airflow to *and from* those spaces. With a single door as the only entry to a space, that can be done by having fans on the floor *slowly* blowing cold air towards the stove. Warm air would replace this, after traveling along the ceiling. But your hallway is rather restrictive to get enough warm air to all the rooms on the right hand side. It'd have to turn 3 corners in a narrow hallway to reach BR2 and 3. That's tough however you do it.

In any case, think about air *circuits* rather than a single lane (hallway) of air, and the layout of your home.

Maybe a bigger ducted fan in one strategic place (but bigger = noise; hallway near the stairs?) and more medium sized registers (w/ fusible link damper) for rising warm air where you want heat input above, and keeping the stairwell door closed is a better strategy? It gets complicated quickly though.

 

[begreen]

I am still considering a t5 but am concerned about my wife keeping up on the air control during the day.

Regardless of stove choice there will be a learning curve, even for you. That is part of the art of wood burning. The more complicated the stove, the more there is to learn. With the T5, she shouldn't have to touch it during most days. Once the air has been reduced to cruising temp, the air control doesn't usually get touched again until reload. My wife handles our stove easily, but she runs it differently than I do. If needed, she just puts on 2-3 splits in the late afternoon, then closes down the air about 15 minutes later. It's very simple. We also have a digital thermometer on the flue which you see every time you walk by the stove. This thermometer has a wireless companion that can be placed upstairs so that one knows the state of the flue temp remotely. I have the remote in my office, but it could just as well be in the kitchen or other location.

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

Regardless of stove choice there will be a learning curve, even for you. That is part of the art of wood burning. The more complicated the stove, the more there is to learn. With the T5, she shouldn't have to touch it during most days. Once the air has been reduced to cruising temp, the air control doesn't usually get touched again until reload. My wife handles our stove easily, but she runs it differently than I do. If needed, she just puts on 2-3 splits in the late afternoon, then closes down the air about 15 minutes later. It's very simple. We also have a digital thermometer on the flue which you see every time you walk by the stove. This thermometer has a wireless companion that can be placed upstairs so that one knows the state of the flue temp remotely. I have the remote in my office, but it could just as well be in the kitchen or other location.

Can I get the info on that thermometer? That would be sweet to be able to check flu temps from upstairs without having to go in the basement!

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

I don't know what spaces you want to heat (LR heated enough by the fireplace there?). Kitchen? Bedrooms?

Your bedrooms, office etc. will remain colder, unless you add some vents there too (those may need to be larger, and you'd have to tune how far you open the door of the stairwell to balance flows). If you do this, a 6" duct and fan may not be enough (i.e. go 8" or 10").

The issue is that you have quite a few small rooms with limited airflow "circuit" options unless you make a lot of holes in floors. I wonder if your issue with the heat output of the Valcourt for your home is more of a lay-out issue rather than a fireplace sizing issue?

To heat all spaces, you need airflow to *and from* those spaces. With a single door as the only entry to a space, that can be done by having fans on the floor *slowly* blowing cold air towards the stove. Warm air would replace this, after traveling along the ceiling. But your hallway is rather restrictive to get enough warm air to all the rooms on the right hand side. It'd have to turn 3 corners in a narrow hallway to reach BR2 and 3. That's tough however you do it.

In any case, think about air *circuits* rather than a single lane (hallway) of air, and the layout of your home.

Maybe a bigger ducted fan in one strategic place (but bigger = noise; hallway near the stairs?) and more medium sized registers (w/ fusible link damper) for rising warm air where you want heat input above, and keeping the stairwell door closed is a better strategy? It gets complicated

The blower on the valcourt is nice because when its 73-74 in the living room it pushes the heat right down the hallway and makes it 71ish in the hallway and 69-70 in bedroom #3. I like sleeping in a little chillier room actually. The sunroom is just a mudroom so if that room is cold I don't really care. We are thinking about cutting the door in half and making a dutch door out of it just so it's not really cold in there.

 

[stoveliker]

Ok.
So, for that thermometer I think it's an Auber.

I am surprised that the heat upstairs is so even, but that is a good thing.

Adding a (one) register with a fan would create a flow with a preference for going (from the stairs) to that direction. So you have to figure out which room you want the largest temperature increase and add that register there. The rest will also become warmer.

The efficiency of having no register depends a lot on the stratification of the air in your hallway, and I'm afraid that would not be great given the fan of the valcourt.

But you can try without register first before you cut in the floor.

 

[Woodsman on the Plains]

Ok guys I have narrowed down the search.
BK Princess
BK Ashford 30

It's kinda funny because I looked on BK's website and did a dealer search and the closest place was an hour away. Then in was talking to the guys at the Quadrafire dealer and asked about Blaze King and they said they can get em through a company out of Fort Collins. Well what do ya know the website glitched out and they weren't on there and I've had the guy's number saved in my phone for years for work related purposes and never knew he was a BK dealer...🤣. Funny how the world works sometimes.

I would like some comments from people who have the Ashford. And see if they would have liked to have the deeper firebox of the princess. Those are my deciding factors at this point. A deep box that I don't have to clean often or a nice cast iron unit with an ash pan I have to maintain...🤷‍♂️.


BTW... if I ever have to swap out the valcourt for some reason I'm throwing in a T6 in an alcove fashion just for begreen! My mind is made up on that!

 

[EbS-P]

Can I get the info on that thermometer? That would be sweet to be able to check flu temps from upstairs without having to go in the basement!

Auber AT210 wireless version. I have both regular and wireless one.

If going BK you probably want to measure cat temps?

Ashford for looks. But if it’s in the basement does it matter to you?

I will say I’m am a big fan of a secondary combustion stove and a heatpump. When it’s really cold the BK loading schedule will be about the same as any other stove. Where this is a second heating appliance install it’s something to consider. I would have done a BK for my second stove but a Drolet insert was less than half the BK cost.

 

[stoveliker]

Ok guys I have narrowed down the search.
BK Princess
BK Ashford 30

It's kinda funny because I looked on BK's website and did a dealer search and the closest place was an hour away. Then in was talking to the guys at the Quadrafire dealer and asked about Blaze King and they said they can get em through a company out of Fort Collins. Well what do ya know the website glitched out and they weren't on there and I've had the guy's number saved in my phone for years for work related purposes and never knew he was a BK dealer...🤣. Funny how the world works sometimes.

I would like some comments from people who have the Ashford. And see if they would have liked to have the deeper firebox of the princess. Those are my deciding factors at this point. A deep box that I don't have to clean often or a nice cast iron unit with an ash pan I have to maintain...🤷‍♂️.


BTW... if I ever have to swap out the valcourt for some reason I'm throwing in a T6 in an alcove fashion just for begreen! My mind is made up on that!

I find the depth of the belly argument to be irrelevant.
I have a Chinook 30.2. Same box as the Ashford 30.2.
Yes, you can leave more ashes in the Princess. BUT, I want my firebox volume, so I can load it up and get the longest burns (whether that's 10 hrs in mid winter or 24 hrs in warmer weather does not matter, longest means most fuel in the box).
So, having the opportunity to leave 6" of ashes in the stove just sucks as it means 6" less wood in your stove.

The laziest I can be is 2.5" (I think, I have not measured) of wasted space. Then I *have to* take it out or risk overflowing when I open the door.

Depending on the wood I burn and the burn rate ash production differs. I've had ash take-out sessions (scooping coals to one side with a metal cat poo scooper and shoveling into a bucket, leaving the hot coals to provide draft and suck in any swirling ash to the chimney) between once per week and once per two weeks.

Bottomline, yes, you can be lazier with a Princess, and empty ashes less frequently. But you don't want to be, because it bites you in the back on reload schedules. This is a basement stove, you'll be there less often, meaning you will want to have the longest reload schedule you can get. Meaning you don't want 6" of ashes. Meaning it's a wash regarding this parameter. (One could argue the Princess is better because more efficient - and that's true, but I don't think it's a measurable difference. And it certainly pales in comparison to wasting many inches of fuel space to ashes.)

I think it's the tendency of BK owners to brag. The King is the largest (brag time and ash belly), the Princess the most efficient (brag) and has a deeper ash belly than similar 30 boxes (brag). The Ashford is the only "good looking BK" (subjective brag). Etc. It holds no water, and mine does not hold much ashes.

 

[Ashful]

Ok guys I have narrowed down the search.
BK Princess
BK Ashford 30

I would like some comments from people who have the Ashford.

You asked for it, "BK vs. "BK. But that likely still won't stop some of our moderators for admonishing any of us for discussing this forbidden brand, in answering your question, this has happened to me before. At the risk of this being my last post (again), I'll try to give some answers.

Also note that there may be one or two here who've owned both a Princess and an Ashford (webby3650?), but most of us are going on the experience of having owned one, and only reading about the other. I own two Ashford 30.1's, and they're great stoves, but I think I can offer some comparative thoughts based on having run many dozens of cords thru these Ashfords while always watching this forum for comparative information on the other BK models.

The Ashford obviously wins on looks. In fact, I would (and did, for several years) run another inferior stove, before sticking a Princess or King in my living room. But some people don't mind the "fat-bottomed girl" proportions and plain late-1970's sheetmetal styling of these models. They're just not for me.

The Ashford may also win if you're in an environment surrounded by stone or concrete, where nearly all radiated energy will be soaked up by the masonry, and likely conducted to outside or into the earth. In my case, my stoves each sit in a large cooking fireplace, such that any heat coming off the sides or back would be lost. But thanks to the clad over steel with airgap convective design, the Ashford radiates very little heat off the sides or back, instead moving nearly all the heat off those surfaces of the firebox by convection (enormously aided with a blower, if you add it). The only very-radiant surface on these stoves is the front, which is dominated by a huge viewing window.

The Ashford also wins on fireview. BK seems to have gotten the message on all the "black glass" criticism aimed at their older (King and Princess) models, and got more aggressive with the air wash in these newer stoves, such that the glass actually stays pretty clean. You can still get it black in the corners, on a very low burn, but I'd say it stays about 80% clear under all range of burn rates, and goes 100% clear after some time on high. Search these forums for plenty of threads of people talking about using putty knives and razors to scrape thick layers of black creo off the glass of their Princess or King, and make our own decision on whether they're exaggerating or not.

But that said, reports indicate that the Princess may win on other points:

BK lists both fireboxes at 2.9 cubic feet, but those who've viewed both indicate the Princess appears to have more useable space in the firebox. I am not sure if this is real or false perception, again BK lists both at 2.9 cu.ft., but it's worth mentioning.

The Princess has a deeper ash belly, which can let you go longer between clean-outs. I have to shovel my Ashford 30.1's once per week, usually Saturday mornings, burning 2 loads per day all week. It may be possible to go longer on a Princess, but remember that going longer and collecting more ash volume just means less of that 2.9 cu.ft. is left for wood.

The better air wash system on the Ashford has caused some customers to have an issue with clogging their Steelcat combustors, causing some to have to vacuum it off once or twice mid-season. I was one of the first to report this, and learned that the issue was the combination of four factors: 1. aggressive air wash can stir up a bit more fly ash, 2. a very tall chimney, 3. running the stove on wide-open throttle for extended periods, and 4. the small openings on the Steelcat used in the Ashford. BK spec's maximum draft of 0.06" WC, but I was running somewhere around 0.21" on the taller of my two chimneys, roughly 3.5x the maximum spec. I installed a key damper, and as long as I remember to adjust it, I never have clogging issues. But I've never seen reports of Princess cats clogging from this combination of factors.

"The Ashford Smoke Smell". This was a hot topic about two years ago, which I haven't seen much discussed recently. A few Ashford 30.1 customers were reporting a smoke smell coming from their stoves, under certain conditions, and having a lot of trouble finding the source of it. There were all sorts of theories at the time, on the source of it, but it may have been resolved since then. It seems likely it was also related to the more aggressive air wash employed to keep the Ashford's glass clean, creating some localized internal high pressure near the door, but that was only one of several theories at the time. In any case, the Princess has been around many years longer than the Ashford, with no notable history of this smoke smell issue.