Hearthstone Green Mt 60

[4woodchucks]

I would like to talk with other owners of the new Hearthstone Green Mt 60 wood stoves.

We bought a GM60 last year and have had smoking problems the entire winter. We've been heating with wood for decades in the same location, and we understand about needing draft. Except for installing this new stove our stove-stove pipe-chimney set up has not changed.

Thanks for connecting.

 

[Highbeam]

So what is the issue. Smoke from the chimney? The door when open? The door when closed? Describe your chimney physically and when it was cleaned since that is the most likely source of problems. Consider the clogging of any kind of bird screen that your installer might have left up there on accident.

 

[coaly]

The resistance of stoves is different. Some newer stoves do not breathe as easily as older stoves. So a chimney / pipe configuration may create enough draft for the older stove, but not this one.
Chimney height, (stove outlet to chimney top) diameter, type (masonry or insulated inner flue) interior/ exterior, and connector pipe configuration is needed.

 

[rosem]

I looked at one for a while. Two dealers talked me out of it though. They made it seem like it had draft issues. Like it doesn't let enough in. One dealer had to crack the door while I was there to get it going again.

 

[moresnow]

Hopefully the user here who has been very happy with there GM will see this thread.

 

[4woodchucks]

Hopefully the user here who has been very happy with there GM will see this thread.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for these replies. As background, I started my wood burning life as merely someone who owned a stove, bought our wood, and had chimney fires because I didn't know you had to clean the chimney. I then became a chimney sweep, worked in a wood stove testing laboratory, ran a retail wood stove store, and finished my professional wood stove related career as the sales manager for a wood stove manufacturer.

Now I'm back to being just a guy with a wood stove who knows a little bit about what's supposed to happen when you have a chimney with a good draft (ours was tested recently and it draws perfectly well). I also clean our chimney twice a year - before and mid-way during the season. I have come to believe the issue is not our draft/ chimney, but a stove that has been well designed to meet the stringent EPA requirements, under laboratory conditions, yet needs a few manufacturing modifications to actually perform well in the real world.

The smoking happens primarily at two times. 1. When there are coals at the back of the stove and I want to pull them forward and add more wood. Really, any time I open the door and move coals around smoke and/ or fly ash come out the door. 2. Also, soon after I close the damper and close the air inlet to shut it down for an overnight burn, it'll back puff smoke out the air inlet. This stove has an indicator dial showing when the catalytic converter is "Active" and I now always wait until it is at least half way into the Active range before closing the damper, yet the back puffing still happens.

I have "fixed" the smoke and ash out the door issue by sliding a 1" x 4" board across the top of the door frame opening as I open the door, but this is kind of a bogus fix. With other stoves you merely open the door a crack, let the draft kick in, and open the door to load it. The permanent fixes for this include A) cutting back the baffle and B) reducing the top-of-the-door opening. The top opening of the door frame is about 1" above the bottom of the baffle and the front edge of the baffle is about 1" back from the glass door. Smoke, of course, takes the path of least resistance and flows out the door rather than curving back over the baffle and then up the stove pipe/ chimney. Lower the door opening and the smoke will more naturally follow the draft up the stove pipe/ chimney.

Of course, cutting back the baffle will reduce the efficiency, which the company claims will reduce sales. (Well, manufacturing a stove that smokes constantly will reduce sales, too.) The fix to lower the top opening to the fire box should not affect the efficiency and might be the only fix needed to stop the smoke and ash out the door issue.

The permanent fix for the back puffing issue might be cutting back the baffle, which would widen the opening for the smoke to go up the catalytic converter, rather than out the air inlet. The permanent fix for the back puffing issue might also be to put in a larger catalytic converter; maybe it is undersized. Catalytic converters were just coming onto the market when I worked in the wood stove testing lab, so I'm not all that familiar with their function.

There you go; a fairly long winded explanation of our issues and my thinking.

 

[Highbeam]

Can you add a metal curtain that hangs down into the door opening? Some furnaces have this. You can’t see anything up the anyway if the door opening is actually higher than the baffle.

 

[Nigel459]

I don’t have any issues with smoke rollout with the GM40. Quite the opposite really. I put in a very restrictive damper as I found the stove to pull pretty hard when it gets going. I have around 23’ from stove to top of chimney, with only a few feet outside and two 45s in the connector. I’m really happy with how it performs.

 

[4woodchucks]

Again, thanks for the replies.

The idea of hanging a metal curtain from the top of the door frame makes sense and I made that recommendation to the Hearthstone rep I was communicating with and he said he would pass it along to the designers. But, ya know, I bought this stove brand new last year. I'm not all that excited about having to put in the time and effort to correct design errors that rightfully belong to the manufacturer.

Glad to hear the GM40 is working well. I would really like to hear from some GM60 owners.

 

[jmyoung01]

Again, thanks for the replies.

The idea of hanging a metal curtain from the top of the door frame makes sense and I made that recommendation to the Hearthstone rep I was communicating with and he said he would pass it along to the designers. But, ya know, I bought this stove brand new last year. I'm not all that excited about having to put in the time and effort to correct design errors that rightfully belong to the manufacturer.

Glad to hear the GM40 is working well. I would really like to hear from some GM60 owners.

I also just bought a GM 60 - problems with draft/air intake ( there is none) fire will smother with the door closed and smoke/ash flies out the front when opening the door even though I have a great draw. Very disappointed.

 

[Sailrmike]

I also just bought a GM 60 - problems with draft/air intake ( there is none) fire will smother with the door closed and smoke/ash flies out the front when opening the door even though I have a great draw. Very disappointed.

Have you looked at your air intake on the bottom of the stove? There may be a metal safety label placed in the way of the airflow into the stove

 

[4woodchucks]

JM Young,
Sailrmike made a good recommendation. Look under your stove. It is likely that there is a metal plate taped to the bottom, covering the air intake hole. As you might think, removing it made a big difference in my stove's performance, yet it did not eliminate the problem of smoke coming out the open door.

Just the other day I added 2 feet of tile liner and 3 chimney blocks to the top of my chimney. Starting today it's supposed to get cold enough to light fires for a few days in a row, so I'm looking forward to seeing if there is an improvement.

 

[jmyoung01]

JM Young,
Sailrmike made a good recommendation. Look under your stove. It is likely that there is a metal plate taped to the bottom, covering the air intake hole. As you might think, removing it made a big difference in my stove's performance, yet it did not eliminate the problem of smoke coming out the open door.

Just the other day I added 2 feet of tile liner and 3 chimney blocks to the top of my chimney. Starting today it's supposed to get cold enough to light fires for a few days in a row, so I'm looking forward to seeing if there is an improvement.

Yep, all clear. I guess I’ll try to get in touch with the manufacturer.

 

[rosem]

Yep, all clear. I guess I’ll try to get in touch with the manufacturer.

My dealer kind of talked me out of the GM 60 for the same reason. They mentioned that the draw/air supply seemed to be very weak.

 

[Elbyesq]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for these replies. As background, I started my wood burning life as merely someone who owned a stove, bought our wood, and had chimney fires because I didn't know you had to clean the chimney. I then became a chimney sweep, worked in a wood stove testing laboratory, ran a retail wood stove store, and finished my professional wood stove related career as the sales manager for a wood stove manufacturer.

Now I'm back to being just a guy with a wood stove who knows a little bit about what's supposed to happen when you have a chimney with a good draft (ours was tested recently and it draws perfectly well). I also clean our chimney twice a year - before and mid-way during the season. I have come to believe the issue is not our draft/ chimney, but a stove that has been well designed to meet the stringent EPA requirements, under laboratory conditions, yet needs a few manufacturing modifications to actually perform well in the real world.

The smoking happens primarily at two times. 1. When there are coals at the back of the stove and I want to pull them forward and add more wood. Really, any time I open the door and move coals around smoke and/ or fly ash come out the door. 2. Also, soon after I close the damper and close the air inlet to shut it down for an overnight burn, it'll back puff smoke out the air inlet. This stove has an indicator dial showing when the catalytic converter is "Active" and I now always wait until it is at least half way into the Active range before closing the damper, yet the back puffing still happens.

I have "fixed" the smoke and ash out the door issue by sliding a 1" x 4" board across the top of the door frame opening as I open the door, but this is kind of a bogus fix. With other stoves you merely open the door a crack, let the draft kick in, and open the door to load it. The permanent fixes for this include A) cutting back the baffle and B) reducing the top-of-the-door opening. The top opening of the door frame is about 1" above the bottom of the baffle and the front edge of the baffle is about 1" back from the glass door. Smoke, of course, takes the path of least resistance and flows out the door rather than curving back over the baffle and then up the stove pipe/ chimney. Lower the door opening and the smoke will more naturally follow the draft up the stove pipe/ chimney.

Of course, cutting back the baffle will reduce the efficiency, which the company claims will reduce sales. (Well, manufacturing a stove that smokes constantly will reduce sales, too.) The fix to lower the top opening to the fire box should not affect the efficiency and might be the only fix needed to stop the smoke and ash out the door issue.

The permanent fix for the back puffing issue might be cutting back the baffle, which would widen the opening for the smoke to go up the catalytic converter, rather than out the air inlet. The permanent fix for the back puffing issue might also be to put in a larger catalytic converter; maybe it is undersized. Catalytic converters were just coming onto the market when I worked in the wood stove testing lab, so I'm not all that familiar with their function.

There you go; a fairly long winded explanation of our issues and my thinking.

Hello 4Woodchucks,

I just had a Green Mountain 60 installed at the end of October. I am not nearly as experienced with wood stoves as you are but I have had them most of my adult life and used them with no difficulty. Your comments mirror my experience. I just had the folks who installed the stove out here today and they are baffled as to why it won't burn (they do think the air intake valve is tiny). If I can't get the dealer to take it back, I will have to have it pulled out and replaced at great expense. How can an long-term stove fabricator manufacture and market a product like this? This is just a very unpleasant experience. I wish I had come across this forum before I bought the woodstove. Thanks.

 

[rosem]

Interested to see what Hearthstone says if anything.

I almost got the GM 60 but decided (with the help of the forum) it would be too small.

The GM 80 is a better fit for my house (3cu/ft box) but has an 8" flue. Which maybe tells you something about how much draft these need?

The only GM 40 on the forum seems to be working well too but is smaller and on the same 6" flue.

Maybe the GM 60 is just in a weird spot and didn't need to be part of the lineup.

 

[tabner]

Just the other day I added 2 feet of tile liner and 3 chimney blocks to the top of my chimney. Starting today it's supposed to get cold enough to light fires for a few days in a row, so I'm looking forward to seeing if there is an improvement.

Did you see some improvement after adding the additional chimney height @4woodchucks

Has anyone else with issues described their chimney on this thread?

 

[OffTheGridWannabe]

I would like to talk with other owners of the new Hearthstone Green Mt 60 wood stoves.

We bought a GM60 last year and have had smoking problems the entire winter. We've been heating with wood for decades in the same location, and we understand about needing draft. Except for installing this new stove our stove-stove pipe-chimney set up has not changed.

Thanks for connecting.

Hi, I am having horrible smoking with the GM60. Just installed last 2 weeks and did the break-in etc. First break-in fire it set off the CO detectors in the middle of the night when it was "off" from that burn. But as to the smoking--now yes I know smoke is involved with a wood stove...and some may come in when you open the door--the smoke billows out after opening the door. And that is with taking the proper steps... open the catalytic bypass, wait, crack the door a bit, wait, then slowly open the door... *poof* smoke rolling out. So I have heard that the GM60 is a new model/design. Personally I am thinking it is poor design. And just today again it setoff either the smoke or CO detectors. So will be shutting down the stove and working with mfg to get to the bottom of it.

But I am not one for patience for this sort of thing, so I will push for moving to a blaze king. Thoughts anyone?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

Hi, I am having horrible smoking with the GM60. Just installed last 2 weeks and did the break-in etc. First break-in fire it set off the CO detectors in the middle of the night when it was "off" from that burn. But as to the smoking--now yes I know smoke is involved with a wood stove...and some may come in when you open the door--the smoke billows out after opening the door. And that is with taking the proper steps... open the catalytic bypass, wait, crack the door a bit, wait, then slowly open the door... *poof* smoke rolling out. So I have heard that the GM60 is a new model/design. Personally I am thinking it is poor design. And just today again it setoff either the smoke or CO detectors. So will be shutting down the stove and working with mfg to get to the bottom of it.

But I am not one for patience for this sort of thing, so I will push for moving to a blaze king. Thoughts anyone?

Thanks

First thing make sure that draft is sufficient and not going negative. If the draft is weak, changing the stove won't necessarily fix the problem. This can be done with a manometer or Magnehelic.

Where in the house is the stove located? How tall is the flue system from stove to chimney cap?

 

[avsmusic1]

I was just talking to a guy running a GM60 who loved it. He’s been burning it for a month or 2 and the only issue he’s had is it spitting out too much heat for his space. The retailer I ran into the guy at said that model is selling well

I’d presume if smoke billowing out was a design flaw we’d be hearing more about that-even on a newer model. It seems more probable that its something else causing it. I superhero question is whether that thing is readily and easily augmented

 

[rosem]

Now I'm curious what the flue heights are on these installs are and if they are lined/insulated or not.

 

[tabner]

Something doesn't add up. Nigel had to put a damper in on his 40, and cabin warmer is concerned his 60 fires too much too fast.
I haven't been able to find a chimney description from any of those with smoke issues/complaints.

 

[cabinwarmer]

Good Day, as tabner mentioned above, I have all the draft I need and then some. @22' 6inch pipe. 50% DVL and 50% outside SS chimney enclosed in a chase. I have learned to watch the door opening, but most the time am fine with the - open cat, open inlet, open slowly and wait a few seconds routine. On occasion I get smokel but nothing I would not consider normal, either windy days or early in the burn. This stove has taken me a liitle time to understand. But, it gets better each day I spend time getting educated. For sure, it is the boss. But runs great when settled in around 475- 500f flue temp.

**added - I just reloaded mine, I do get a small amount of ash when opening the door. I believe this is due to the high efficiency of the burn. My other two older stoves leave a heavier ash that does not fly. This stove burns the wood splits completely down to a fine ash that seems lighter in nature.

 

[begreen]

It's good to hear you are making progress cabinwarmer. Are you loading the stove fully yet? If not about how much wood in a loading?

 

[cabinwarmer]

Hello begreen, I am utilizing larger splits. The bigger the better. Using 5-6 inch splits on top of hot coals, two of those and a smaller split to even things out. Your advise has been sound, thanks again! I am letting the splits catch a good edge burn and backing down the air almost closed, flue temp rises @ 100F after I close it down and settles in for hours. I have only done this a few times as I am trying to be close by to watch, learn and educate myself. No overnights as of yet. The stove does hold coals well though. I came down this morning after closing it down around 10PM, at 7AM was able to start a new fire with just throwing kindling on top. What a big difference this stove is from the older ones I am used to.

Dave