Hearthstone GreenMountain Vs Regency Cascades

[eselick]

Hi - We've been using a Regency F3100L for the past 20 years. It's a beast and can really heat up the place but the noise from the Airmate is a major pain. We're considering getting a hybrid to reduce emissions and the amount of wood we burn. I'm thinking about getting a Green mountain 40 or a Regency F2500. I don't think we can fit anything bigger into our space.
So it's almost 2025 and these stoves have been around long enough to see how well they stand up and how well they burn wood.
I'd appreciate your input and comparisons about burn time, durability, dealer support and anything else you'd like to mention. Also, how loud are they with the blowers on?
Thanks and happy holidays!
Elliot

 

[begreen]

I wouldn't expect a dramatic drop in wood consumption with the new stove. The F3100 was reasonably efficient. There will be some savings and new stoves do burn cleaner. Has the blower been cleaned and oiled? If that is the primary issue it may be addressed with servicing.

The Hearthstone G60 would be a closer equivalent in size. Personally, I am not fond of either Hearthstone's or Regency's Cascade hybrid implementation for these 2 stoves. I don't like the cat being right below the flue collar. That's a waste of heat. And some are reporting frequent ash clogging. The Regency Pro line F3500 is a better implementation.

A couple other hybrid stoves to look at are the Lopi Endeavor and Libery are good as well as the Kuma Ashwood or Wood Classic.

In non-catalytic stoves the Pacific Energy Summit or the Osburn 2000 are worth considering.

 

[eselick]

Thanks so much for your words of wisdom. It's hard to believe with all the advertising surrounding the efficiency of EPA 2020 stoves that there wouldn't be a significant drop in wood consumption. But I'll bear in mind what you've said, and I appreciate all the recommendations for the other stoves.
To be continued )
Cheers
Elliot

 

[all night moe]

If it was me, I'd keep your stove. Your only complaint is the blower noise.
If your really looking to conserve fuel, and your home is insulated well for a low and slow burn, a Blaze King may fit the bill.
You did say you have space requirements though.....

 

[bholler]

If it was me, I'd keep your stove. Your only complaint is the blower noise.
If your really looking to conserve fuel, and your home is insulated well for a low and slow burn, a Blaze King may fit the bill.
You did say you have space requirements though.....

A Blaze King won't save much wood over a 3100 unless the Regency was oversized and constantly overheating the home. I made that switch and saw very little difference in wood use. Now the bk definitely gives more even heat. And works better in milder weather. But there just isn't much efficency gain

 

[all night moe]

A Blaze King won't save much wood over a 3100 unless the Regency was oversized and constantly overheating the home. I made that switch and saw very little difference in wood use. Now the bk definitely gives more even heat. And works better in milder weather. But there just isn't much efficency gain

Lesson learned. I don't have a BK but lust a Princess. I find the 24-30hr low and slow burn times intriguing.
I would have thought that would save fuel with less reloads.
FWIW, I don't take your wisdom and expertise lightly.

 

[eselick]

I've never used a catalytic stove, but isn't it true that you're burning VOC's that would otherwise go straight up the chimney, and shouldn't that mean increased BTU's and therefore less wood?
What am I missing?

 

[all night moe]

I've never used a catalytic stove, but isn't it true that you're burning VOC's that would otherwise go straight up the chimney, and shouldn't that mean increased BTU's and therefore less wood?
What am I missing?

The wood is still burning. It's off gassing just isn't wasted up the flue.
Your getting more BTU per pound but burning the same pounds.
I was just under the impression that a BK, burning low and slow, would extend burn times....thus less wood.

 

[bholler]

Lesson learned. I don't have a BK but lust a Princess. I find the 24-30hr low and slow burn times intriguing.
I would have thought that would save fuel with less reloads.
FWIW, I don't take your wisdom and expertise lightly.

Yeah if you only need the btus that a 24-30 hour burn gives you there will be lots of wood savings. But other than mild weather i am running the same burn times I did with the Regency at 8 to 10 hours because that is the btu level I need.

 

[bholler]

I've never used a catalytic stove, but isn't it true that you're burning VOC's that would otherwise go straight up the chimney, and shouldn't that mean increased BTU's and therefore less wood?
What am I missing?

You are burning slightly more of the volatiles out of the smoke. Like 1 to 2% more than with a good tube stove like your 3100. So yes there is a slight gain but not much. The real benifit of a cat stove is being able to burn at a lower output while still burning clean. If you don't need that low end output there is not much advantage

 

[eselick]

Please tell me if I've got this right. With my F3100, it's burning off most of the emissions when there's a hot fire. When it's ripping, I can see the flames shooting out of the holes in the tubes. But when it's not that hot, it's not burning the VOC's and so becomes less efficient than a good catalytic stove.

 

[bholler]

Please tell me if I've got this right. With my F3100, it's burning off most of the emissions when there's a hot fire. When it's ripping, I can see the flames shooting out of the holes in the tubes. But when it's not that hot, it's not burning the VOC's and so becomes less efficient than a good catalytic stove.

As I long as you are burning both correctly there is very little difference in efficency. But your 3100 simply won't run as low as a good cat stove.

 

[eselick]

We live in southern Quebec, near the Vermont border. Spring and fall seem to last longer than they used to, and there are fewer weeks of really intense cold. It's been changing the way we use fire wood. If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious to know how much wood you burn and what the climate is like where you live.

 

[bholler]

We live in southern Quebec, near the Vermont border. Spring and fall seem to last longer than they used to, and there are fewer weeks of really intense cold. It's been changing the way we use fire wood. If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious to know how much wood you burn and what the climate is like where you live.

Me?

 

[BKVP]

As I long as you are burning both correctly there is very little difference in efficency. But your 3100 simply won't run as low as a good cat stove.

We live in southern Quebec, near the Vermont border. Spring and fall seem to last longer than they used to, and there are fewer weeks of really intense cold. It's been changing the way we use fire wood. If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious to know how much wood you burn and what the climate is like where you live.

Let's leave this discussion of VOC's to the experts after a 2024 Study was done by Environment Climate Change Canada. Both technologies were tested (catalyst and non-catalyst). This is the foremost & recent study of VOC's, NOx, Methane etc.

This study has three different white papers written to summarize the findings. Here are two, the third is "too large for the sever". The third is from University of Sherbrooke. Anyone that want's that file can P>M> and I'll try to email it to you.

BKVP

 

[eselick]

Me?

Yes. I was hoping you would let us know how much wood you burn and what the climate is like where you live.

 

[eselick]

Let's leave this discussion of VOC's to the experts after a 2024 Study was done by Environment Climate Change Canada. Both technologies were tested (catalyst and non-catalyst). This is the foremost & recent study of VOC's, NOx, Methane etc.

This study has three different white papers written to summarize the findings. Here are two, the third is "too large for the sever". The third is from University of Sherbrooke. Anyone that want's that file can P>M> and I'll try to email it to you.

BKVP

I've just taken a quick look at the first document. They state that the EPA 2020 catalytic stove (BlazeKing PE32) is significantly more efficient and emits less pollutants than the others. It has an HHV of 80% vs all the other types of around 60% and and LLV of 87% vs around 70% for the others. Interesting ..

 

[BKVP]

But a very important point is the older, very used Pacific Energy had the cleanest run of all runs. It was favored by having the absolute driest fuel load, but the take away is "with dry fuel, burned on high, older EPA stoves perform very well".

Also, the Princess stove had highest NOx numbers, which is, according to those that conducted the study, a side effect of complete combustion.

These were all used stoves, not new stoves.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

Not only NOx - I was surprised by the high(est) methane emissions by the Princess.

Given a hot cat and the presence of oxygen, that is a puzzle for me.

 

[BKVP]

Not only NOx - I was surprised by the high(est) methane emissions by the Princess.

Given a hot cat and the presence of oxygen, that is a puzzle for me.

Especially confusing to those that did the actual testing. The assumption from them to me was the inactive period of up to 20 minutes may have contributed.

More studies are being done and will post prior to 12/2027, expected next NSPS.

BKVP

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, it being an average number over a burn cycle that is by definition not a system performing at constant parameters could skew things like this.

 

[bholler]

Yes. I was hoping you would let us know how much wood you burn and what the climate is like where you live.

Central pa Mountains heating 2200 square feet from the finished basement. Basement is very well insulated the main floor is typical 70s insulation. I typically use 3 to 4 cords

 

[Todd]

Lesson learned. I don't have a BK but lust a Princess. I find the 24-30hr low and slow burn times intriguing.
I would have thought that would save fuel with less reloads.
FWIW, I don't take your wisdom and expertise lightly.

Years ago I was also intrigued with the insane BK burn times and ended up purchasing a Princess. I actually ended up burning more wood than my Woodstock and didn’t think it heated as well. Maybe it was a radiant verses convection thing but I was also filling the beast just to get those long burns when I probably didn’t need too.

 

[stoveliker]

I don't regularly use those burn times either. I am just setting the dial where I want it for the desired heat output, depending mostly on weather. Heating 1700 sq ft over two floors above the 825 sq ft basement where the Chinook resides.

I did try max time a few times just for chits and giggles. It works. But it's less BTUs than I need (given that I use minisplit when it's 40-45 F and above.)

Edit: my cycles vary between 8-9 ish and 16-18 is hours for full loads.

 

[BKVP]

Years ago I was also intrigued with the insane BK burn times and ended up purchasing a Princess. I actually ended up burning more wood than my Woodstock and didn’t think it heated as well. Maybe it was a radiant verses convection thing but I was also filling the beast just to get those long burns when I probably didn’t need too.

Did your Woodstock and Blaze King both have fans?

BKVP