Help: Novice: Wood stove? Jotul or Pacific Energy?

[dodger]

Hello all,

I am new to the site and a novice to woodstoves. I have a masonry fireplace which I have used for 24 years watching the heat go up and out. I am now 57 and no longer want the chore of feeding the fireplace. Efficiency and heat is now my primary objective, as prior it was simply the aesthetic of the fireplace. With that said, I was recently in Montana and in a hunters cabin, which had a PE Summit freestanding stove. We did not use it, but this started my gears turning. I live in Maryland, have a brick cape cod built in 1954 with no insulation or very little in the walls; however, i did sprayfoam the cap of the roof 7 years ago. The house is cold in winter. I have hot water baseboard heat in the first floor, not very efficient. I just started yesterday looking and went to two dealers, one PE and the other pushed the Jotul. I have the literature, but admit I am not very techincal to understand a lot of the information. I am leaning towards the PE T6 or the Jotul F500 Oslo CF, Jotul F55.

I Believe the Jotul F500 is all cast iron, while the Jotul F55 is cast iron over steel, same with the PE T6, Cast iron over steel. I always thought that Cast iron was the best, but again Iam confused with Cast iron over steel, etc, which is why I am not embarassed to say, I am a novice, and simply appreciate any schooling and of course a push in the right direction.

I thought the stove could go on the hearth in front of the Fireplace and vented out the existing chimney, but I am waiting for an on site inspection to see if this can be done.

I assume once the onsite inspection is done, will provide input and feedback on even being able to have a freestanding woodstove. I don't know why, but Ihave always thought that a freestanding stove would produce more heat than an insert. I prefer to have a stove versus an insert.

So, with this information provided, I am asking for any input and feedback, between the two products. I know alot can be personal preference; however, I also know that there are other factors as well, which I simply do not have the understanding of the techincal aspects, so I am grateful for any input and feedback, that may be provided.

My Home is a brick cape cod, 1500 SF, living room first floor, upon entering, bedroom upstairs. Again, the house is very cold in winter.

Much Thanks for any and all input and feeback.

 

[begreen]

Note that the PE T6 is top vent only. If rear vent is needed then the Jotuls are a better option. Another stove to look at in this category would be the Quadrafire Explorer III which also can be rear-vented. Check the lintel height to make sure a rear vented stove's flue outlet falls below it.

 

[Poindexter]

At 1500sqft you have many many options.

You can probably find a fireplace insert or 20 that will fit your exisitng fireplace, but need a chimney liner and for best efficiency a block off plate. They work pretty good as long as the power is on, without juice to run the fans, not so much.

You might be able to extend your hearth out onto the floor, put a freestanding wood stove on the floor and vent it through the existing chimney, but you would need a liner (a metal pipe inside the brick chimney) almost definitely, and give up a lot of floor space.

You might look at putting a free standing wood stove somewhere else, leaving your fireplace undisturbed. The Cape Cods I know of have pretty steep roofs, which can be problematic (expensive) for chimney installs.

You might also look at pellet stoves. No idea how competitive your local market for wood pellets is. You probably have more than one supplier/ factory shipping to your zip code, a good thing.

Like inserts only worse, pellets pretty much require power to run. Used to be it was pretty common to find a 12 volt DC power input on the side of a pellet burner near the AC cord - so you have heat during an outage if you could get the battery out of your truck and own jumper cables. I hear the mfrs are getting away from this, haven't looked myself lately.

The good thing about a pellet burner is you can generally punch a hole in a wall and install basically a dryer vent for a chimney, Also, they don't have huge foot prints for the hearth size.

You have lots and lots of products to choose from sized for 1200 to 2400 sqft. Seriously, your house in every manufacturer's crosshairs.

One consideration would be air sealing and insulation. No matter what fuel you are getting BTUs from, if your envelope is more efficient you will need less BTUs.

Honestly, my advice would be to get some spray foam, spend this winter plugging air leaks around electrical boxes and window frames. In your spare time look at fuel prices (cord wood, pellets, gas, electric, #2 oil), and plant prices. Most likely a freestanding wood stove will be the most expensive plant to install, but have the lowest ongoing fuel cost. How long are you staying in that house?

Wood burners go in sale in March, right now everybody and their dog is gonna charge full retail price.

If you are SURE you are done with the fireplace, how about an outdoor burn pit for summertime fun, a cordwood burning insert, a small generator, 40-50 gallons of gasoline for the generator and several cords of green wood. Where will you season your cord wood?

Nobody saving money running a wood stove does it buying already seasoned cord wood. You will pretty much have to commit to buying less expensive green wood and drying it your self .

 

[Poindexter]

I am not may years younger than you. Having a pellet burner, and a bicycle basket on the front of my walker so I can hobble out to the garage and bring in pellets five pounds at a time gets more attractive every year.

 

[begreen]

Dadgum young folks today, want everything easy.

 

[dodger]

Much thanks for your kind input and feedback. Since the Pacific energy is a top vent, don't know now if my existing fireplace can be used, however, I was told the jotul oslo was not a great stove. Any input on jotul f55 carrabasset, which was the last choice of mine for that product. I have always wanted a woodstove, can afford it now, and will be in my house till I die.

 

[begreen]

The Oslo is an excellent cast iron stove with a good history. It is primarily a side loader which means good clearance from combustibles on the left side. When rear vented it helps to have a little extra flue height to help the draft. The F55 is also a great stove that is a steel stove at heart with a cast iron jacket. It has a bigger, square firebox which I like, but it will need a deeper hearth.

 

[dodger]

Begreen, Much thanks again. I know like most things, personal preference plays a part, as one response did not care for the jotul brand/ model oslo. Then again, we see the flip side of the coin, with someone else that does. Based on your prior reply, if you have a preference, would you prefer one over the other. Oslo versus F55. I have always been partial to all cast iron, which I believe the oslo is, but again, learning, I simply don't know about cast iron over steel etc. There is so much to take in for the first time of being a wood stove or insert prospective buyer, it is overload. I have burnt wood for years, just not in either product.

my first choice in stove was the Pacific energy alderlea T6 , as the one dealer sells that brand, and the other dealer visited, pushed the jotul. When I was in big timber montana just last week, staying in a hunters cabin, he had a Pe Summit stove, which turned me on to now getting one. This is a real mountain man, that owns 10,000 acres and is a sixth generation, that builds his own houses, cabins etc. I then thougjt, since he really is so hands on, that the Pe brand had to be a decent stove. Research later proved also to be true.

 

[begreen]

For a fireplace install I think I'd prefer the F55 with a blower. I had the Castine prior to the T6 and do love a cast iron stove. They are beautiful and quick heaters. But the T6 has really changed not only our burning habits, but also our comfort level. So call me a convert to the cast iron clad steel stove design.

The F500 is a strongly radiant stove, the F55 is much more convective. The first thing we noticed after only one day of burning in the T6 after the F400 was how even the house temp stayed and how much warmer it was in the morning. The mass of the cast iron jacket really evens out temp swing. I also much prefer N/S loading... no more logs rolling up against the glass. The F55 is a quality stove with a square firebox and in some areas like the latch assembly, nicer than the PE. Another stove in this category is the Quadrafire Explorer series. It's a nicely finished stove, very handsome and has the rear vent option.

 

[firefighterjake]

Much thanks for your kind input and feedback. Since the Pacific energy is a top vent, don't know now if my existing fireplace can be used, however, I was told the jotul oslo was not a great stove. Any input on jotul f55 carrabasset, which was the last choice of mine for that product. I have always wanted a woodstove, can afford it now, and will be in my house till I die.

Since 2008 or so when I came on board I have only seen a handful of folks who have not liked the Oslo . . . in truth I find the vast majority of folks who have them love them. Other than changing out a few gaskets a year or two ago, I've done nothing to it other than cleaning and it has been providing 90-95% of my heating needs here in Maine.

The usual negative comments mentioned with the Oslo include the front door which tends to drop ash on to the ash lip (I find it more useful to use the side door and use the front door for cleaning), ash often will drop down behind the ash pan door (so one learns to scoop out the ash with a flat stove shovel before replacing the ash pan after emptying it) and once a year or so I lubricate the air control lever with graphite to keep it moving smoothly.

 

[Rearscreen]

I went to a dealer to look at stoves yesterday with a relative and got the big time Jotul push. I started mentioning all of the inherent design problems I had experienced with the Jotul Oslo. The knowledgeable dealer said, "Yeah I have the same problems but I simply don't use the ashpan, and don't open the front door and I don't get the burn times it says I should get..."

 

[webby3650]

I went to a dealer to look at stoves yesterday with a relative and got the big time Jotul push. I started mentioning all of the inherent design problems I had experienced with the Jotul Oslo. The knowledgeable dealer said, "Yeah I have the same problems but I simply don't use the ashpan, and don't open the front door and I don't get the burn times it says I should get..."

I’ve had 2 Oslo’s. The burn times were very respectable, the ashpan worked as well as any others I’ve had. The ash build up along the front door was a bother. Since most people side load primarily, I think the build up is worse than it would be if the front door was used regularly. This certainly wouldn’t be a deal killer for me.

 

[dodger]

Much thanks , I appreciate your input. That can make things easier, since at least I know the jotul is a rear vent and Pe T6 is top vent. Since I want things use existing fireplace, I assume rear vent is easier. I have someone coming out tomorrow morning to do an on-site inspection. My two choices were the f55 and Pe t6. I have seen other nice reviews of the f55. Hopefully , tomorrow, I will be able to commit to a purchase , based on installation. I know the install won't be cheap, since a new liner is needed, etc. Lastly, out of curiosity, if an insert were to be used, does that require a new liner as well?

Always much thanks

 

[begreen]

Yes, a liner will be needed in either case.

 

[dodger]

Begreen, thanks again. It always seems like there is another question, as my wheels turn about getting a woodstove. Since I want to try and use the existing fireplace to vent, can a stove that has a top vent, be vented via the fireplace, or does that top vent either exclude, or simply make it harder based on other factors, that need to be factored in based on the application. I never gave it any thought, not really knowing, until I started reading posts, and researching since this monday. So although it may be understood by the folks who have experienced all of this before, I again am a newbie. I would rather not want to cut thru walls or ceiling, although I do have a window, in my living room off to a corner area, which I thougjt could be used, but again, just don't know , so tomorrow I guess I will be informed, as I have a company coming out to inspect.

 

[webby3650]

Begreen, thanks again. It always seems like there is another question, as my wheels turn about getting a woodstove. Since I want to try and use the existing fireplace to vent, can a stove that has a top vent, be vented via the fireplace, or does that top vent either exclude, or simply make it harder based on other factors, that need to be factored in based on the application. I never gave it any thought, not really knowing, until I started reading posts, and researching since this monday. So although it may be understood by the folks who have experienced all of this before, I again am a newbie. I would rather not want to cut thru walls or ceiling, although I do have a window, in my living room off to a corner area, which I thougjt could be used, but again, just don't know , so tomorrow I guess I will be informed, as I have a company coming out to inspect.

A window isn’t an option. Going up through the ceiling is no big deal, do it all the time.
A top venting stove would only work if your fireplace was tall enough to allow the stove to sit inside it, and still have room to make the connection. That would be one huge Fireplace. We’ve done them, just not very common.

 

[begreen]

Can be done, but like webby said, it needs to be tall enough to clear the stove. BrotherBart's 30NC installation is in a tall fireplace.


The T6 is not a great choice for this kind of installation because one can't use the swing-away trivet top, which is a key feature.

 

[Ashful]

Don’t even THINK about putting a Jotul cast stove in a masonry fireplace, unless that fireplace is completely within the insulated envelope of the house, not on an exterior wall. I ran that setup (times two) for a few years, and damn near 100% of the heat you produce will be soaked up by the masonry and sent outside. You want a convective stove, such as PEs cast over steel box, if you’re installing into an exterior wall fireplace.

If the vent config on the PE doesn’t work, look at other convective options, such as Jotul’s cast-clad products (F50/F55?).

 

[webby3650]

Don’t even THINK about putting a Jotul cast stove in a masonry fireplace, unless that fireplace is completely within the insulated envelope of the house, not on an exterior wall. I ran that setup (times two) for a few years, and damn near 100% of the heat you produce will be soaked up by the masonry and sent outside. You want a convective stove, such as PEs cast over steel box, if you’re installing into an exterior wall fireplace.

If the vent config on the PE doesn’t work, look at other convective options, such as Jotul’s cast-clad products (F50/F55?).

I hate that you wasted so much fuel all those years. But, I'm glad to know of your experience. I would have thought the opposite, big radiant heat is what I thought would be necessary to overcome the stone heat sink. Makes sense now, I just wasn’t thinking the right way. I even tried to steer you the wrong way at one point.

 

[dodger]

Well guys, I appreciate everyones input and feedback, and am exicted to say that Ihave commited this morning to the Jotul F55 Carrabassett stove. The only concern I have is that, per the measurements of the stove is 30 and 5/8 and the fireplace is 30. The owner of the company said he would look for shorter legs, that there wasn't a short leg kit for the stove; however, I don't know how new this attachment is but Ifound that there is a short leg kit, from the manual attached here, when I googled short leg kit for the stove.

Does anyone know if this is accurate, as I would prefer not to have to cut the leg if we don't have to.

Excited for winter, sort of. Lol.

 

[webby3650]

Sounds like your dealer isn’t familiar with the options that particular stove has available.
I assume the opening is 30”, but once inside the fireplace there’s more height?

 

[begreen]

Does anyone know if this is accurate, as I would prefer not to have to cut the leg if we don't have to.

It's accurate and the part # is listed in the manual for the dealer to order -
Short Leg Kit - #157636

 

[dodger]

Begreen, Much thanks again, that is a relief to hear. Your input and feedback steered me towards this stove, versus the PE T6. Install is set for one month from now. I'm sure there is plenty more to learn once the burning begins. Sincerest thanks

 

[begreen]

Woodmans also sells them I think, but can't verify as their site is currently down. Maybe check later?
https://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/

 

[Ashful]

I hate that you wasted so much fuel all those years. But, I'm glad to know of your experience. I would have thought the opposite, big radiant heat is what I thought would be necessary to overcome the stone heat sink. Makes sense now, I just wasn’t thinking the right way. I even tried to steer you the wrong way at one point.

hah... no problem, man! I think it took all of us awhile to realize why I was ripping thru so much fuel, with such inability to bump our temperature at all.

On the plus side, the massive fuel usage pushed me toward several efficiency enhancements:

1. Big-ass saws
2. Front-end loader
3. Big heavy trailer with winch
4. Hot-rodded splitter
5. 1-cord wagon