Heritage - Burn times stink

[rudysmallfry]

I have now had my Hearthstone Heritage for 5 seasons. I've burned all types of wood from just seasoned to "should have burned it 2 years ago". I've had Oak, Maple, Cherry, you name it, in that stove. I burn the at around 350-400 stack temp. The stove passes all the seal tests, (dollar bills and such), and I can shut it down by shutting to air to the max that you can with that stove. Basically I've got wood management in that stove down to a science. Why then, can I not get the 8 hour burn times boasted by all the web sites on this stove? Hell, I can't even get 2 hours. If I load that puppy up, shut down the air, and take a nap, it's all coals when I wake up. Most wood I put in there turns into skeleton wood within 30 minutes of putting it in there. I just don't get what I am doing wrong. Any thoughts on what I can do to figure it out? After 5 seasons, I'm really starting to get pissed.

Setup is stove in the basement, 18" single wall to right angle, another 2' to wall thimble and then about 18' up the chimney. Rear heat shield and blower on stove. Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated.

On another note, if I can get my house up from 62 to 72 degrees on a 40 degree night, but can only get it to 64 on a 20 degree night, is that just because it's already warmer out when I start, or is my house really poorly insulated?

 

[johnstra]

There are some folks on here that are VERY happy with their Heritages. Hopefully one of them (snowleopard?) will step in and save the day.

 

[weatherguy]

Is the stove in an uninsulated basement?

 

[rudysmallfry]

No, basement is finished in a raised ranch. Lower part is underground. Upper half is insulated.

 

[wkpoor]

I've never owned a Heritage, but I too heat from the basement up. My house is pretty ideally suited for gravity heat but with 9yrs experience I would say your experiences to be par for the course. These long burn times are stoves that are sitting in people living rooms with a much better inviroment for heating living space and if the space is warmer the stove will burn longer. Any stove in a cool space is going to consume. The Heritage probably just needs a larger firebox to get more burntime IMO. I know your going to get the usual wet wood talk here ,but talking to people outside this forum with cast iron and soap stoves, many say they too aren't seeing those long burn times. Everyones situation it different and most aren't ideal like mine or possibly yours. To me it just boils down to how many BTUs does your house require to maintain a givin air temp and how many is your stove giving off. Plain and simple.

 

[begreen]

No, basement is finished in a raised ranch. Lower part is underground. Upper half is insulated.

I believe Highbeam is getting better results than this with our punky NW wood. Something doesn't sound right.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Definitely no wet wood in play. If anything, it's over seasoned. I'm a nut about burning clean. That makes sense about a cold room reducing the burn time. Now that it's warmer, I do seem to suddenly be getting longer burns, although now I'm blowing myself out of the house with the heat. Wish it would do that in the dead of winter. I cringe when I hear that damn boiler kick on around 3:00am cuz the stove has fizzled out prematurely. Maybe I'll get one of those energy audits done before next season and see if I can seal the house up a little better.

 

[rudysmallfry]

No, basement is finished in a raised ranch. Lower part is underground. Upper half is insulated.

I believe Highbeam is getting better results than this with our punky NW wood. Something doesn't sound right.

Yeah, I thought this would be the year when I finally got good burn times. Almost 2 years ago, I scored some very nice Oak. It does burn a little longer than other woods, but still pretty much the same deal. I'm almost tempted to make a video of a time lapse burn to show how quickly the stuff falls apart.

 

[wkpoor]

Is your stove's main burn time on the secondaries? Or do you need alot of primary air to keep the fire going?

 

[rudysmallfry]

Initially it needs a lot of primary air to get a good burn going. I pretty much have to start out wide open, even when I reload. Then there's a short window where it's practically a runaway fire and I have to throttle it back pretty much to completely closed and it becomes a secondary burn from there. This year more than any, I've noticed there's not much middle ground. It's either all open or all closed. If the fire starts to get going too strongly, I do have to shut it all the way down or the stack just keeps climbing. Only when I shut it down do I get the lazy flame.

 

[wkpoor]

Well then if its working as advertised then its not the stove. I vote for its just the invironment. I have a friend who heats an impossible space in a workshop. He throws wood at the stove almost continously and can barely make 40 on a cold day. That same stove would last me 5-6hrs in my basement. Its all in what your wanting it to do. I would bet a BK in that same place wouldn't make 2-3 hrs before needing a reload.

 

[rudysmallfry]

I wonder if it would almost make sense to keep the basement a little warmer via oil heat while burning the stove in increase the burn time. That also might help the heat get upstairs better too. Ironically the basement is easy to heat since it's partially underground.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I have now had my Hearthstone Heritage for 5 seasons. I've burned all types of wood from just seasoned to "should have burned it 2 years ago". I've had Oak, Maple, Cherry, you name it, in that stove. 1.I burn the at around 350-400 stack temp. The stove passes all the seal tests, (dollar bills and such), and I can shut it down by shutting to air to the max that you can with that stove. Basically I've got wood management in that stove down to a science. 2. Why then, can I not get the 8 hour burn times boasted by all the web sites on this stove? Hell, I can't even get 2 hours. If I load that puppy up, shut down the air, and take a nap, it's all coals when I wake up. 3. Most wood I put in there turns into skeleton wood within 30 minutes of putting it in there. I just don't get what I am doing wrong. Any thoughts on what I can do to figure it out? After 5 seasons, I'm really starting to get pissed.

4. Setup is stove in the basement, 18" single wall to right angle, another 2' to wall thimble and then about 18' up the chimney. Rear heat shield and blower on stove. Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated.

5. On another note, if I can get my house up from 62 to 72 degrees on a 40 degree night, but can only get it to 64 on a 20 degree night, is that just because it's already warmer out when I start, or is my house really poorly insulated?

Let's focus on the areas in bold.

1. Stack temp: To be clear, what are you referring to when you say stack temp?

2. 8 hour burn time is marketing BS. All stove companies do this. For me, in the winter with hard wood, I can go from reloading at 300 up to a peak of 550°-620° back down to 300° for reload in a 5 hour cycle. Overnight burn times are a bit longer, but only by about an hour or so and in the morning I am reloading a stove with plenty of coals with a stove temp at around 175°-250°.

3. To me, this indicates you are leaving the air open too long.

4. I have the rear heat shield, but no blower. I have two 45° bends that leads into the chimney and a 90° in the chimney. Straight up 22-ish feet from that point.

5. How big is the house? The Heritage isn't a large stove and I don't think it would make the best basement install.

 

[Fsappo]

I tell customers to buy a stove based on "air shut" heating. If I load my Heritage in the showroom full of seasoned wood on a good bed of coals, let it catch and then shut the air OFF. I come back 10 hours later to a stove thats warm with barely enough coals to restart with fire by adding splits. Will it heat the boasted 1800 square feet burning that way? Not a chance. Thats why I sell the Heritage as a 1000 square foot heater. In an uninsulated basement, even less. If you buy/sell stoves based on "air shut" ratings and expectations, you dont get complaints about burn times or heat. If you look at a brochure as a buyer/seller and take 2000 sq ft 11 hour burn times to mean that stove will do both at the same time, your goin to dissapoint or be dissapointed.

 

[Wood Duck]

Why would a cool room reduce the achievable burn time? Sure, a cool room would make you want to keep the air setting higher to get a hotter burn, and that could reduce the burn time. However, that doesn't seem to be what the OP is talking about. I think he has tried low air settings and still gets a short burn.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I tell customers to buy a stove based on "air shut" heating. If I load my Heritage in the showroom full of seasoned wood on a good bed of coals, let it catch and then shut the air OFF. I come back 10 hours later to a stove thats warm with barely enough coals to restart with fire by adding splits. Will it heat the boasted 1800 square feet burning that way? Not a chance. Thats why I sell the Heritage as a 1000 square foot heater. In an uninsulated basement, even less. If you buy/sell stoves based on "air shut" ratings and expectations, you dont get complaints about burn times or heat. If you look at a brochure as a buyer/seller and take 2000 sq ft 11 hour burn times to mean that stove will do both at the same time, your goin to dissapoint or be dissapointed.

Do you come up with your air shut ratings through trial and error or do you have a rule of thumb based on the glossy specs? BTW, I really like the sales approach.

 

[Fsappo]

Kind of an estimate based on 26 years of selling and burning stoves mixed with customer feedback combined with the glossy (I ignore all the specs except the firebox size) So for a basement Hearthstone install, knowing that the Hearthstone doesnt rip the raw heat like a steel stove and knowing the Hearthstone radiant heat will get sucked up into unfinished basement walls I would A. Tell the customer to buy a steel convection stove and oversize it or B. Take whatever HS Says the stove should heat, cut that down by about 75% and size the stove that way. On a steel stove basement install Id cut the heat claims in half or a little more. Since the EPA stoves started coming out and our industry started to see how they really work, I have had very few people complain of me me selling them a stove that was too large.


So in regards to the OP, If I guessed at 1800 square feet on a raised ranch and he HAD TO buy a Hearthstone, I would sell him an Equinox or have him sign off on something saying he understands that the stove may be undersized and the heat/burn times may be less than stated by the manufacturer. I would really want them to buy a Regency 3100 or enerzone 3.4.

 

[Highbeam]

While that 's all great Franks, the important info that you have for this thread is that you are able to get 10 hour burntimes on a heritage. I don't care what size house or even if you put this stove outside, your low burn burntime will be the same. I share your experience that the Heritage meets the advertised burtimes of 8 hours easily.

Is this a case of properly defining burntime? Surely the Hearthstone company will market their "burntime" as the max time between a full load and when you can restart without a match. So if you think burntime is something else, like time stove is above 400, then you are comparing apples to oranges.

Your problem is not the stove rudy, it is the wood, operator error, or your expectations. You've had the stove for 5 seasons, can we assume that at one point you were able to get the full burntimes? What has changed since then? My money is on your wood being too dry (punky or rotten) and that you are giving it too much air which will rip through wood and wisk your heat up the flue. Be sure that there is a good one inch ashbed too, that helps burntime.

I am able to heat 100% of my 1700 SF with this stove in my climate. I've shoved over 20 cords of relatively low btu wood through this thing and have found that it performs exactly as Hearthstone says it will. The ashpan is silly, the door latches are a terrible design, but the dang stove does exactly what they say it will with low clearances and good looks.

One more thing Rudy, I've been loading the stove a little differently this year with great results. I will stuff this thing to the gills for the longest hottest fires. Seriously stuffed. Slide wood along the tubes on the roof, set wood against the front door glass, the whole thing. These stoves, maybe all EPA stoves, love a full load. The next day, the glass is clean and ash is white. Pretty amazing for such a huge window.

 

[Rich L]

Do you have a pipe damper ?If not try it .I have my Mansfield in my basement and before the damper I'd get only5-6 hours of good heat.With the damper I'm getting 12 hours.

 

[CTburning]

The heats going somewhere. If its not going into the room, it must be going up the chimney.

 

[wkpoor]

The heats going somewhere. If its not going into the room, it must be going up the chimney.

Just because its going there doesn't mean there is enough of it. One thing I've gathered from this forum is, you hear alot more success stories with stoves upstairs than you do with stoves in the basement. You need a well insulated house with decent natural airflow and reasonably sized to heat with a single wood stove.
Most basement installs double the sq ft or more what your trying to heat in addition to being in a heat soak environment.

 

[Fsappo]

While that 's all great Franks, the important info that you have for this thread is that you are able to get 10 hour burntimes on a heritage. I don't care what size house or even if you put this stove outside, your low burn burntime will be the same. I share your experience that the Heritage meets the advertised burtimes of 8 hours easily."

I was assuming ASS U ME ing that he wasnt shutting the air down all the way. He did mention shut it down. You pack that stove with good wood on a bed of coals, shut the air OFF and you get long burn times with low heat. Thats my point. The low heat may be plenty for a 20x25 room with some rooms off of it. The point is, if you spec a stove at low burn, you wont be dissapointed..or it will happen less often at least. I'm 90% sure that if I was at his house, with wood from my shop, fireside the stove, packed it full, shut down the air, took a 10 hour nap (Need one) that 10 hours later the stove would be giving off a comfy warmth, there would be a bed of coals and I could add wood open the air and the fire would take off. Now, did it heat the whole house to 71.3 degrees the whole 10 hours? Not if the house is bigger than 1000 square ft Im guessing.

 

[weatherguy]

He said his basement is insulated, an insulated basement is usually easier to heat than the upper floors, of course it does add square footage. I had some very seasoned firewood last year that burned pretty quick, some of it was punky and some of it was on the edge of punky. As someone mentioned that could be a problem.

 

[Highbeam]

I agree Franks. His thread title which will be archived forever was specific to burn time problems. To that issue, it's not the stove.

His secondary gripe was about heat output at any setting, we need more info to solve that issue.

He looks like an evening poster so he will probably come back to give us more info about how a stove full of good wood will be gone in two hours. That's magic.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Hi guys. Glad to see this thing generated some conversation. I'm looking to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. For starters, I am a she, and yes I am an evening poster. I do my surfing at work between busy times.

My raised ranch is on the smaller side. It's only a little over 1200 sq ft on the main floor and half of the basement is a drive under garage, so the finished basement size is about 800 sq ft.

I really do not think it is the wood. I scored some very nice Oak in the spring of 2009. That gave it a year and a half to season which should be perfect for a freshly cut tree if I'm not mistaken. I get the fire going with higher heat woods like Cherry and Hickory and then switch to the Oak and Maple after I'm in secondary burn mode.

I do probably underload the stove, but it's more because I'm afraid of a runaway fire. Like I said before, when I first reload, I have the keep the air open about 1/2 way for a few minutes. In a very short period of time, that wood catches on and the stack temp shoots from about 250 to 450 in no time and climbs rapidly if I don't shut it down. I'm afraid if I pack it full, even the air shut off will not be enough to bring the stack temp back down. Other than the doors, I don't know where I could check for air leaks. I would think that I should be able to get a lazy flame on 1/2 air rather than having to shut it down completely.

I do burn a good bed of coals. I never burn in an empty stove. I'm not real religious about cleaning it out much.

If I burn full time with air off and not let the wood get a good primary burn first, the stack temp never gets above 250. That's way too cold for me. I try to burn around 350-400 to prevent creosote buildup.

I'd love to move this puppy up to my main floor, but it's not a big house, and the minimum chimney height recommendation for this stove is 13'. I'd have to go out the wall instead of straight up, so add another 3' to that for adequate draft. 16' seems like a lot of height to me. I would think that would tower over my roof and I wouldn't be able to clean it myself and save the $$.

I do plan on switching to double wall pipe next season. Will that allow me to burn at a lower stack temp and save some heat going up the chimney?