Hot air wood furnaces that meet the new EPA regs...

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
I just seen a new one on Menards sale ad today, the Shelter SF2600. There is no info on it at their website or HY-Cs (the parent company that owns the Firechief/Shelter wood furnace co.) But it is definitely a new model http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/fireplaces-stoves/add-on-furnaces/shelter-sf2600-indoor-wood-furnace-1-500-3-500-sq-ft/p-1461692458747-c-12809.htm?tid=7449745222950322705&bargainStoreId=3258
I talked to Yukon the other day, they are still doing some last minute tweaks to their new "clean burn" models.
So we have a few now that meet the new regs that go into effect this May
1. Kuuma (Vaporfire 100 and 200)
2. Drolet/PSG (SBI) (Drolet with the Heatpack, the Tundra II, and the Heatpro) (PSG with mini-Caddy, Caddy, Max Caddy)
3. USStove (Golden Eagle and the Ashley)
4. Shelter (SF-2600)
Who else am I forgetting?
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,447
Ashland OH
Napoleon, and Newmac also have EPA certified models. That shelter looks like there's could be a large heat exchanger above. I figured they wouldn't move in that direction, guess I was wrong.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
Ahh yes, I forgot about Napolean...I guess they still actually sell a few? And I didn't know Newmac was still in the mix here...good info.
I hafta agree about Shelter/Firechief...I wasn't sure they'd hang on...and Daka, which is still an unknown at this point...
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
Newmac?

Huh.....
Yeah, I dunno. I went to their website and couldn't find a EPA cert. FA furnace...did find some EPA wood stoves though. Also learned that they are owned by US Stove now.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
I find some Newmac "clean burn" units, but I didn't see anything that said anything about EPA cert.
Now I did find that they have a true variable speed blower available on at least some models...I was just discussing my surprise at the lack of this option on wood and/or coal furnaces with @sloeffle this afternoon...after doing a true variable speed (not just multi-speed) mod on my Tundra, I can say it is sorely overdue in the FA wood furnace world...it makes for a really sweet setup!
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,447
Ashland OH
At one time Newmac had a EPA model I'm pretty sure, but maybe that changed with the new regs. Numerous other manufacturers out there need to join the game, or they won't be around much longer. I'd like to see different technology, and as much as I don't want to see things too complex, I wouldn't mind seeing control boards. No matter what they require power to control the blower, so why not a way to control the fire.
 
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maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,126
Nova Scotia
I'm within an hour of 3 manufacturers, Newmac being one of them. I haven't checked any of them out lately, but over my time researching my boiler buy (and for some time after), none of them were showing any signs of going anywhere high-tech or EPA related with their burning designs. I came to the conclusion they were stuck in old tech forever & would get left behind, badly.

I do certainly stand to be corrected if one of them has indeed gotten into EPA/clean burn territory.
 
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sloeffle

Minister of Fire
Mar 1, 2012
603
Central Ohio
I looked at an Energy King when I was looking for furnaces. I didn't like the way you had to clean the secondary heat exchangers so I went with the Caddy instead. Not sure if it is EPA certified but they claim to be 78% efficient.
 
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laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,447
Ashland OH
I looked at an Energy King when I was looking for furnaces. I didn't like the way you had to clean the secondary heat exchangers so I went with the Caddy instead. Not sure if it is EPA certified but they claim to be 78% efficient.
I think they tried, but their design couldn't meet the requirements. The Blaze King apex was one that would have met, but they discontinued.
 
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3fordasho

Minister of Fire
Jul 20, 2007
832
South Central Minnesota
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S.Whiplash

Member
Oct 28, 2012
95
A dollar to the first person that can find the EPA list of approved forced-air wood furnaces. I spent 20 minutes chasing my tail through the EPA website and came up empty. I suspect Kuuma Vapor Fire might be the only one qualified.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
A dollar to the first person that can find the EPA list of approved forced-air wood furnaces. I spent 20 minutes chasing my tail through the EPA website and came up empty. I suspect Kuuma Vapor Fire might be the only one qualified.
I suspect the EPA doesn't have a current list up...which honestly, until May 15th passes, the list will just keep changing, I bet they don't update until after that...
 

JRHAWK9

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2014
1,238
Wisconsin Dells, WI

BKVP

Minister of Fire
I think they tried, but their design couldn't meet the requirements. The Blaze King apex was one that would have met, but they discontinued.
First, HY-C has really put the $$$ in R & D and they have been at it since the NSPS was starting to be reviewed about 6 years ago. It does not surprise me one bit. Second, we discontinued our APEX, which was the standard used by EPA for it review. It came down to production time versus demand. We may get back into the mix someday, not just now however.

With the new standards right around the corner, you can see how many manufacturers are working hard to engineer burn cleaner units. Keep in mind EPA approved for 2020 and beyond is the goal for most of the manufacturers.
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,447
Ashland OH
I spoke with Hy-C about the new shelter furnace. It sounds like it could be a heating monster if the rep is right. I guess there's been a handful in use, and they reported a 30 to 45% reduction in wood usage. He said output temperatures in the plenum are higher, and burns between 10 and 14 hours. The firebox size is 4.8 which is very large for a clean burning unit. He said both primary and secondary air is superheated. They are working on a new site, and sometime within 2 weeks will have a manual and breakdown online.
 
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laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,447
Ashland OH
First, HY-C has really put the $$$ in R & D and they have been at it since the NSPS was starting to be reviewed about 6 years ago. It does not surprise me one bit. Second, we discontinued our APEX, which was the standard used by EPA for it review. It came down to production time versus demand. We may get back into the mix someday, not just now however.

With the new standards right around the corner, you can see how many manufacturers are working hard to engineer burn cleaner units. Keep in mind EPA approved for 2020 and beyond is the goal for most of the manufacturers.

Yeah, from the sounds of it, they invested some serious money! I guess they have patented the system and are currently working on their 6th or 8th model. I took interest when he said plenum temps were up to 170 degrees! I guess they are using a forced draft for demand, but it closes down and burns clean when demand isn't needed. A 1200 to 1800 cfm blower and a large plenum opening, it sounds like it will heat well.
 
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Gonz4373

New Member
Feb 7, 2017
4
Nw missouri
I spoke with Hy-C about the new shelter furnace. It sounds like it could be a heating monster if the rep is right. I guess there's been a handful in use, and they reported a 30 to 45% reduction in wood usage. He said output temperatures in the plenum are higher, and burns between 10 and 14 hours. The firebox size is 4.8 which is very large for a clean burning unit. He said both primary and secondary air is superheated. They are working on a new site, and sometime within 2 weeks will have a manual and breakdown online.
I hope the new ones are nice i have the biggest indoor one that they did make before the model change and im not sure if im a fan of it yet. First winter running it tho but it just dint seem to operate like i think it should and i have to clean my flu pipe once a week. Maybe i just dont know have to use this new technology lol.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
I hope the new ones are nice i have the biggest indoor one that they did make before the model change and im not sure if im a fan of it yet. First winter running it tho but it just dint seem to operate like i think it should and i have to clean my flu pipe once a week. Maybe i just dont know have to use this new technology lol.
Which model number do you have?
 

laynes69

Minister of Fire
Oct 2, 2006
2,447
Ashland OH
I hope the new ones are nice i have the biggest indoor one that they did make before the model change and im not sure if im a fan of it yet. First winter running it tho but it just dint seem to operate like i think it should and i have to clean my flu pipe once a week. Maybe i just dont know have to use this new technology lol.
That's funny because they (hy-c) told me they didn't have to change much of anything to meet epa standards, that their furnaces already were clean burners. It was the same story with some other manufacturers. When you see these threads, it always tells the other story.
 
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blades

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2008
3,359
WI, Leroy
I hope the new ones are nice i have the biggest indoor one that they did make before the model change and im not sure if im a fan of it yet. First winter running it tho but it just dint seem to operate like i think it should and i have to clean my flu pipe once a week. Maybe i just dont know have to use this new technology lol.
Wet Wood- 98% of the time insufficiently dry fuel is the culprit. Suggestion buy a pallet or 1/2pallet of compressed wood blocks and run those exculsivly for a week and report back on your findings.
 
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brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
I have the 2639....heat 3000 to 5000 sq feet
Ahh...OK so that is still one of the old ones...I wasn't sure if you were saying you had one of the new "EPA" models or not.
They take some time to get used to how to burn them and not get a lot of creosote...and like blades said, if you don't have DRY wood, it will always make creosote unless you are constantly burning wide open...which I'm sure doesn't happen.
 

Gonz4373

New Member
Feb 7, 2017
4
Nw missouri
Ahh...OK so that is still one of the old ones...I wasn't sure if you were saying you had one of the new "EPA" models or not.
They take some time to get used to how to burn them and not get a lot of creosote...and like blades said, if you don't have DRY wood, it will always make creosote unless you are constantly burning wide open...which I'm sure doesn't happen.
Oh no i could burn wide open....it would run us out of the house. Ive been burning wood that is 2 years old, and some standing dead oak and i didnt think it should be that bad. But we also get a lot of temperature spikes and falls here in missouri and i try to turn in down some so i dont turn the house to a souna
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,427
NE Ohio
Oh no i could burn wide open....it would run us out of the house. Ive been burning wood that is 2 years old, and some standing dead oak and i didnt think it should be that bad. But we also get a lot of temperature spikes and falls here in missouri and i try to turn in down some so i dont turn the house to a souna
Do you have a moisture meter? You may be surprised at the readings.
If not you can get one for $20 or so on amazon or even lowes.
Bring the wood inside overnight to warm it to room temp, split it, then test the moisture on one of the fresh split faces (not on the end)
Oak is notorious for not giving up moisture readily...my experience with it is the only thing that can be burnt immediately on a standing dead tree is some of the smaller branches up top.
The lower you go, the wetter it gets, the lower part of the trunk will usually need 3 years cut/split/stacked (CSS) to be DRY.
Try the ECO bricks as was suggested, or you could mix in some construction scraps (kiln dried pine 2x4s and the like) with a regular load, see if that helps clean the chimney up for ya.
The other thing is learning to "load for the weather" warmer days = smaller load, colder days = larger load, polar vortex cold = full load (YMMV) The other part of this is when you load. Wait until the house has dropped a few degrees so that if the furnace overshoots the tstat by a couple degrees, its not as big of a deal. Wood heat is cyclical, not linear like with fossil fuels, and you are much better off working with those cycles than against them.
When its real cold you may need to load 3X per day, when its warmer you may get away with 2X, or maybe even 1...this, along with truly dry wood, and varying the size of the loads, will go a long ways toward limiting creosote buildup.
 
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