Installation of wood fireplace insert without panels: does our insert protrude enough?

[Remy13]

We just had an Olympic Avalon insert installed into our fireplace. We chose to go without panels and without a blower. The installation was completed such that the slot at the top of the insert, where the heat comes out, is a few inches inside the fireplace opening. We asked to have it protrude farther onto the hearth but were told that it was impossible (would require an elbow pipe that does not fit) and not necessary. They said that since we don't have panels, it is not a concern. We are worried that the heat will get trapped in our fireplace. Should we be concerned about this installation?

 

[Woody Stover]

Was a block-off plate installed in the bottom of the masonry chimney to keep the warm air down in the room? Is it an interior chimney or is it on an outside wall?
Is your floor plan open, where the heated air will circulate freely? I've seen its twin, the Lopi Liberty, in the stove shop and at a neighbor's house, and it tosses some serious heat.

 

[slayer7]

I had a similar situation with my Englander insert when it was installed a few years ago. The unit couldn't sit outside of the fireplace opening far enough to use the surround panels because the lintel was too thick to allow the liner to line up with the stove vent hole which was located in the center of the top, so the "insert" had to be situated entirely in the fireplace. Luckily, the installer put in an insulated block-off plate and the insert came with a blower otherwise I wouldn't get nearly the amount of heat output that I do. I would imagine your concerns are valid and that you will have a difficult time getting a decent amount of heat from the unit and not losing it to heating the fireplace/chimney especially if there's no block-off plate installed and no fan to push the heat into the room. If my blower is not running I don't get nearly the amount of heat as when it's on.

 

[Woody Stover]

On the Liberty anyway, the fan is pretty quiet....

 

[Ashful]

What's wrong with having your stove completely inside your fireplace? ;-)

 

[Remy13]

We do not have a block-off plate--according to the manual that is only necessary when there is a connector pipe, and our installation as it is does not use a connector pipe. But there is insullation material instead. It is on an "partially internal" (shares a wall with the garage). Our house is colonial style and not really an open floor plan. But our understanding is that this is a pretty powerful stove. We decided to skip the fan because we we didn't want the noise but also because we want to use it during a power outage when the fan wouldn't work anyway. This was a reason why we got a big stove.

I really appreciate all the responses! I think at this point we will probably wait and see how well it works.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

We just had an Olympic Avalon insert installed into our fireplace. We chose to go without panels and without a blower. The installation was completed such that the slot at the top of the insert, where the heat comes out, is a few inches inside the fireplace opening. We asked to have it protrude farther onto the hearth but were told that it was impossible (would require an elbow pipe that does not fit) and not necessary. They said that since we don't have panels, it is not a concern. We are worried that the heat will get trapped in our fireplace. Should we be concerned about this installation?

Hi, how come no panels? We will need to see a picture of that, please post one....how come no blower? That is what circulates or gets the heat out into your room to give you good heating capabilities... With out pictures we cannot tell if it is installed properly, you should probably call Olympic with your concerns, mine sits flush, but it is a VC

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Sorry, I missed why no blower, blowers have switches to turn them on as well as they need to be plugged in so you have control over them, I'm just saying that I highly recommend a blower, especially on a flush style insert...post a pic of it with no panels, I am very interested in seeing it, thanks...

 

[Woody Stover]

Our house is colonial style and not really an open floor plan. But our understanding is that this is a pretty powerful stove. We decided to skip the fan because we we didn't want the noise but also because we want to use it during a power outage when the fan wouldn't work anyway. This was a reason why we got a big stove.

I really appreciate all the responses! I think at this point we will probably wait and see how well it works.

If it turns out that the stove convects well without the fan, you can also use a small desk fan to move cool air along the floor back to the stove room, which may help with that type of floor plan. The blower fan on the stove would give you more options but I don't know if having it installed would affect the stove's ability to convect when not using the fan. Maybe some Liberty/Olympic owners will weigh in....

 

[Remy13]

The picture is below. We don't want a fan because we wanted quiet operation but also because a primary purpose is to use the stove during a power outage when the fan won't work anyway. As for panels, we like how it looks better without them and we don't think they are necessary--this is not a flush stove. I checked Avolon's website but could not find a number to call. Thanks for the tip about using the small fan!

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

I would ask them if the panels help direct the hot air forward by the way that they are made to fit on the unit, you may lose heat up the chimney if where the heat comes out is actually in that chimney. You may need to pack that space with insulation.but someone that knows more will have to answer that. Take a look at my insert, the hot air comes out just above the glass, the panels seal off any opening to the fireplace, so it is guaranteed that all heat is going in the room and not up the chimney....

 

[DAKSY]

I would ask them if the panels help direct the hot air forward by the way that they are made to fit on the unit, you may lose heat up the chimney if where the heat comes out is actually in that chimney. You may need to pack that space with insulation.but someone that knows more will have to answer that. Take a look at my insert, the hot air comes out just above the glass, the panels seal off any opening to the fireplace, so it is guaranteed that all heat is going in the room and not up the chimney....

Coupla questions...

Why didn't they use something like this?

(broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/chimney/chimney-pipe-stove-pipe/chimney-liner/6-inch-chimney-liner/6-inch-homesaver-ultrapro-chimney-liner/6-homesaver-ultrapro-offset-insert-adaptor-18400.html)

And why isn't there additional hearth protection on the hardwood in front of the masonry hearth? Doesn't look like you've got 16" to the pyroceram in the door...

 

[mellow]

I think you will find yourself using it for more than power outages. At a minimum I would put a hearth rug in front on that hardwood floor for some protection when in use. I would also stuff some Roxul insulation (can be found at Lowes) up the damper to create a soft block off plate, you mention insulation, I would not have fiberglass insulation that close if that is what the installers used.

As for no blower most of us with inserts rely on the blower heavily to move the heat, I have mine running on a UPS backup battery for short outages, and if it will be longer than the gas power generator comes on.

 

[USMC80]

I think you may find yourself getting the blower in the future. A blower on low isn't even noticeable on some models

 

[Woody Stover]

We do not have a block-off plate....But there is insullation material instead.

Doesn't look like you've got 16" to the pyroceram in the door...

At a minimum I would put a hearth rug in front on that hardwood floor for some protection when in use. I would also stuff some Roxul insulation (can be found at Lowes) up the damper to create a soft block off plate, you mention insulation, I would not have fiberglass insulation that close if that is what the installers used.

Roxul would be better but if the insulation is fiberglass, it will work OK. Now, weather fiberglass is considered combustible, I don't know.
It looks to me like measuring from the glass diagonally to the wood floor, he may have 16"....

 

[begreen]

I think you will find yourself using it for more than power outages. At a minimum I would put a hearth rug in front on that hardwood floor for some protection when in use. I would also stuff some Roxul insulation (can be found at Lowes) up the damper to create a soft block off plate, you mention insulation, I would not have fiberglass insulation that close if that is what the installers used.

As for no blower most of us with inserts rely on the blower heavily to move the heat, I have mine running on a UPS backup battery for short outages, and if it will be longer than the gas power generator comes on.

As long as there is a damper-sealing block-off plate installed they may get a bit more heat out of the fireplace without the surround. Ideally the blockoff plate would be at lintel level to maximize the benefit.

A hearth rug is not the same as a proper hearth, nor is it usually attached. There should be proper a hearth extension or hearth pad at floor level

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

I didn't want to say it first, but I'm thinking you made 2 mistakes, not having the blower and not putting the panels on, I'm sure you don't want to be able to see anything that you stuff in there, I think that is also what the panels do, hide all the ugly stuff

 

[Woody Stover]

you don't want to be able to see anything that you stuff in there

Some guys paint the inside of the fireplace black....

 

[begreen]

I don't mind it without the panels. It looks like a pretty clean installation.

 

[bag of hammers]

fwiw I like the way it looks. but the hearth needs to be extended as mentioned previously.

 

[Beer Belly]

We have an Avalon Rainer, and the Blower was a great addition....made a huge difference in spreading the heat. As others have said, a block off plate, or something to stop the heat from going up the chimney.....and the Hearth Extension is a must.....my buddy actually took a piece of plywood, tiled over it, and places it in front of the Hearth for protection during the heating season....looks great

 

[4barrel]

I have had a olympic for 5 years now with the same setup as yours,no panels and no blower. Daksey had a good idea, using that off set to extend the stove further out probably would work better, the stove would give off more radiant heat into the room. Don't worry about not having a blower, the olympic has a great convection system on it. It sends heat all over my house.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

You have a great set up, try to get the panels to make a finished look, you will love it...

 

[sticks]

I think it looks great with out the panels. One very important thing is how you like it. Almost as important as how your wife likes it. The panels are cosmetic. I think you are right if it is for power outages why buy a blower. You may find you use it more often and then consider the blower.

 

[Sean Truesdell]

Am I correct in assuming the issue with the initial install was the lintel depth? What is the depth of your lintel? After being convinced this was the stove for me to buy I noticed in the specifications that 2.5" is the maximum lintel depth that will allow the protruded installation, which I was hoping for (my lintel is 4"). I am now trying to figure if I can make this work, should switch to the flush installation, or switch to a different stove. How have you liked the Olympic since having it installed and during our freezing winter in the NE last year?