invest plant trees, to burn in 20 years

[Prometeo]

hello everyone and happy 2023. I have land which I have earmarked for trees. I have elms, oaks, and small locust trees. I would like to continue planting varieties to be cut in 20-25 years, that are good growing, hardy, and good btus ratio. I'm near the river humidity is always present, exposure, quite good which trees do you recommend?
thanks

 

[Woody Stover]

If it's more than a couple acres, that should be enough to cull dead wood from, depending how much you use, how thick the woods is, etc. I try to avoid cutting live trees, and there's enough dead wood here to easily supply our stove, and a few other peoples' stoves that I am feeding. But the Red Oak types seem to die more frequently than most other species here. Maybe you don't have many trees that die or blow down on the land?
The ecosystem there is probably well-suited for whatever is presently growing, so other species may not do as well. Oak, Elm and Black Locust that you already have sounds like a good mix of medium to high output woods to me.
BL here tends to spread. If you have a couple groves of that, it will supply a decent amount of wood. Is BL the variety you have there, Honeylocust or what? I'm not familiar with Italy wood species.. 🤔

 

[peakbagger]

You may want to look into coppicing where new shoots are grown off of old roots. Since the root system is in place the shoots grow faster than planted trees. The trade off they are not of much value as wood intended for furniture as they usually have a defect in the base of the tree.

 

[Prometeo]

If it's more than a couple acres, that should be enough to cull dead wood from, depending how much you use, how thick the woods is, etc. I try to avoid cutting live trees, and there's enough dead wood here to easily supply our stove, and a few other peoples' stoves that I am feeding. But the Red Oak types seem to die more frequently than most other species here. Maybe you don't have many trees that die or blow down on the land?
The ecosystem there is probably well-suited for whatever is presently growing, so other species may not do as well. Oak, Elm and Black Locust that you already have sounds like a good mix of medium to high output woods to me.
BL here tends to spread. If you have a couple groves of that, it will supply a decent amount of wood. Is BL the variety you have there, Honeylocust or what? I'm not familiar with Italy wood species.. 🤔

Thank you very much for your intervention. I'm amazed you simply find enough naturally fallen wood. I'll have to go around and see if there's enough here too! Quercus cerris, It is the principal tree of natural woodland here and also cultivated for firewood. It is also quite fast growing, of the quercus family, I suppose similar to red oak, but you have to consider 30 years at least. I have in mind to plant 5000 meters like burning wood, but I still want to see which one grows better here. Pseudoacacia, not too many results. I was thinking some type of hickory that grow well here, fast, wood also should be very good, and then i found osage orange, with high btu. I'm not a destroyer, all elms I cut were nearly dead or really grown horizontal. I have an elm tree, centuries old i will never touch it. If I'm going to cut one, plant two trees.

 

[Prometeo]

You may want to look into coppicing where new shoots are grown off of old roots. Since the root system is in place the shoots grow faster than planted trees. The trade off they are not of much value as wood intended for furniture as they usually have a defect in the base of the tree.

Thank you. Speaking of which, when should the cut take place? Because sometimes we notice lush regrowth and sometimes nothing, always talking about the quercus family

 

[Woody Stover]

Don't overlook small, dead trees, either still standing with the bark falling off, or fallen ones that are up off the ground. It takes a little longer to gather a pile of, than if you're splitting big rounds, but that small stuff will in most cases be dry enough to burn immediately.
A friend recently moved into a new-to-him house and got a stove a couple months back, and I've been sending carloads of it back home with him every week, until he can build up his stock of dry wood. I told him to contact a tree guy who will drop soft Maple at his place..that stuff will dry in a year. Once he's a couple years ahead on his supply, he can start adding Oak or other longer-burning woods that need more time to dry.
Quercus cerris AKA Turkey Oak. ("Turkey Oak" in my Audubon Guide, North America, is a different species, though..??)
The rounded lobes of the leaves of your specie would point to this being in the White Oak group...if so, I'd think it should have high BTU output, almost equal to that of Hickory. Have you burned it? Does it burn long? If it grows well there, and fast as you say, I would spread more acorn from that around and get more of them growing.

 

[Prometeo]

Don't overlook small, dead trees, either still standing with the bark falling off, or fallen ones that are up off the ground. It takes a little longer to gather a pile of, than if you're splitting big rounds, but that small stuff will in most cases be dry enough to burn immediately.
A friend recently moved into a new-to-him house and got a stove a couple months back, and I've been sending carloads of it back home with him every week, until he can build up his stock of dry wood. I told him to contact a tree guy who will drop soft Maple at his place..that stuff will dry in a year. Once he's a couple years ahead on his supply, he can start adding Oak or other longer-burning woods that need more time to dry.
Quercus cerris AKA Turkey Oak. ("Turkey Oak" in my Audubon Guide, North America, is a different species, though..??)
The rounded lobes of the leaves of your specie would point to this being in the White Oak group...if so, I'd think it should have high BTU output, almost equal to that of Hickory. Have you burned it? Does it burn long? If it grows well there, and fast as you say, I would spread more acorn from that around and get more of them growing.

Very nice this courtesy to your friend, and I understand the right reasoning. It certainly depends on whether the stove is just a whim or the heating system, the only one in the house, to always be kept on as in my case. This culture is absent here, I have received criticism from everyone, having considered the stove as heating!
Probably turkey oak is the same one we are talking about, yes q.cerris is oak family and it is great. It burns long time and hot, it grows fast but "relatively" always being oak family. Walnut tree, I have not tried instead. Yes, I've been sowing acorns for two years, I understand if I put a flat stone not too big, above the acorn
more probable birth!

 

[Woody Stover]

depends on whether the stove is just a whim or the heating system, the only one in the house, to always be kept on as in my case. This culture is absent here, I have received criticism from everyone, having considered the stove as heating!

Same here; Wood heat is all we have right now. Otherwise it would be the range oven, or a small quartz heater I have, trying to warm this place. 😖 No criticism here, though..I have several neighbors that also run wood stoves.
My friend also relies on his stove. He has a couple heat pumps, but they don't do much when it gets very cold. And his new place is leaky, with 9' ceilings. He's working on sealing it up, but that takes time, and winter is here NOW! 😯

Walnut tree, I have not tried instead. Yes, I've been sowing acorns for two years, I understand if I put a flat stone not too big, above the acorn more probable birth!

I didn't like the Black Walnut I tried very much; Not high BTU, which I don't mind, but just kind of smoldered, didn't flame much, and made lots of ash. It was a dead tree top I found in the woods, off the ground, 20+ yrs. old, so maybe it wasn't representative of normal Walnut.
Maybe putting the rock on the acorn keeps it wetter underneath...? 🤔

 

[Prometeo]

Same here; Wood heat is all we have right now. Otherwise it would be the range oven, or a small quartz heater I have, trying to warm this place. 😖 No criticism here, though..I have several neighbors that also run wood stoves.
My friend also relies on his stove. He has a couple heat pumps, but they don't do much when it gets very cold. And his new place is leaky, with 9' ceilings. He's working on sealing it up, but that takes time, and winter is here NOW! 😯

I didn't like the Black Walnut I tried very much; Not high BTU, which I don't mind, but just kind of smoldered, didn't flame much, and made lots of ash. It was a dead tree top I found in the woods, off the ground, 20+ yrs. old, so maybe it wasn't representative of normal Walnut.
Maybe putting the rock on the acorn keeps it wetter underneath...? 🤔

Exactly, probably 20 years fallen you can not judge much. But even after 5 years it's not very good, then it depends. If it's a big tree, it still remains heavy, even after years and years, Contrary to young, dead specimens they become light because different densities. Yes, the stone maintains humidity and the acorn has more possibilities considering I don't put water I simply let nature take its course! Finally, I ordered some eucalyptus for now, looks promising.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

My friend has 28 acres.. what we do is actually move trees. Obviously not full grown but trees that are mid calf to thigh high. Small trees that are already to close to each other that otherwise will grow crowded, crooked, etc.. Were not introducing anything that is not already growing on the lot. We will choose to replant every oak, cherry, maple and not any of rhe poplar or low btu stuff

 

[Prometeo]

My friend has 28 acres.. what we do is actually move trees. Obviously not full grown but trees that are mid calf to thigh high. Small trees that are already to close to each other that otherwise will grow crowded, crooked, etc.. Were not introducing anything that is not already growing on the lot. We will choose to replant every oak, cherry, maple and not any of rhe poplar or low btu stuff

it's a good idea, i did this 2 years ago, but with oaks it is not very easy, as you know, in the first years already the central root goes down at least 10 inches deep and more, then it takes another year to recover and therefore I prefer to collect local acorns and plant directly. But I never rule out planting other species to try. My land is quite compact and alkaline, I'm moving in this direction, with suitable trees, approx!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Your Pseudoacacia, or black locust here, is a very fast growing tree. As a legume, it’ll also fix nitrogen in the soil for the other trees. It’s a native here that’s being used all over the world to help reforest areas.

If possible, I’d try to plant natives. I don’t think hickories survived the last ice age over there. The natives will be more familiar to your wildlife and be a benefit to them also.

 

[Prometeo]

Your Pseudoacacia, or black locust here, is a very fast growing tree. As a legume, it’ll also fix nitrogen in the soil for the other trees. It’s a native here that’s being used all over the world to help reforest areas.

If possible, I’d try to plant natives. I don’t think hickories survived the last ice age over there. The natives will be more familiar to your wildlife and be a benefit to them also.

Here is the main area of elms, but also cerris oaks, pseudoacacia was not present, I watched it in nearby areas, so I added, but I haven't seen growth to notice, I'm looking for something "invasive" that grows lush, fast! I often read invasive, imported types of trees, which in the end cannot be eradicated easily I'm looking for something similar!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Different trees will grow differently depending on your soil and climate conditions. What may be invasive in one area will not survive in another. If you aren't seeing explosive growth out of the nearby pseudoacacia, it must barely be hanging on.

 

[Prometeo]

Different trees will grow differently depending on your soil and climate conditions. What may be invasive in one area will not survive in another. If you aren't seeing explosive growth out of the nearby pseudoacacia, it must barely be hanging on.

Naturally, but never dwell on this. Paradise tree it's invasive in various parts of the world, but not good burn. Surely there may also be something good, why not, maybe a man-made hybrid

 

[patrickk222]

theres always osage orange which grows like black locust then wild black cherry, black birch, red mulberry

 

[Prometeo]

theres always osage orange which grows like black locust then wild black cherry, black birch, red mulberry

thank you, I found the orange, cheap, worth 1 try

 

[Stinkpickle]

I don’t know what would happen in Italy, but around my place, a few red mulberry trees and some birds would give me a lifetime of firewood.

 

[Prometeo]

I don’t know what would happen in Italy, but around my place, a few red mulberry trees and some birds would give me a lifetime of firewood.

hi, yes, mulberry is something to try, a neighbor of mine told me that they grow well in this area, I haven't found anyone on offer yet, price is quite high! I don't understand instead what you mean by "some birds"?!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The birds will eat the fruit and naturally spread the seeds.

 

[Prometeo]

The birds will eat the fruit and naturally spread the seeds.

ok, nice 👍

 

[Stinkpickle]

ok, nice 👍

They will drop purple poop bombs all over house and vehicles. That’s why my wife hates the mulberry trees in our neighborhood.

 

[Prometeo]

They will drop purple poop bombs all over house and vehicles. That’s why my wife hates the mulberry trees in our neighborhood.

imagine! I have a hawk every night on the balcony, makes a bunch, not so as to discourage him

 

[kennyp2339]

Just watch out for species that multiply by sucker roots, locust is one of them, plant one tree and a few will sprout out of the main root system, they can and will multiply out of control under the right soil / moisture conditions, best to look at what grows best for the specific area and go with that

 

[Prometeo]

Just watch out for species that multiply by sucker roots, locust is one of them, plant one tree and a few will sprout out of the main root system, they can and will multiply out of control under the right soil / moisture conditions, best to look at what grows best for the specific area and go with that

Thank you. The air has changed now everyone here uses more wood, pellets and the like, have reached the stars. Invasive trees are just needed now! Look forward to seeing black locust, aka pseudoacacia this year what will it do i put 4 a year ago, also many oaks have been scattered, hundreds! I hope for many births