Is there a large enough stove?

[coldMN17]

I have a fairly large home for northern MN, approximately 4800 sq.ft. (including the basement 2400 upstairs and 2400 downstairs). The dimensions of the home are 35' x 70' so it is pretty long. The upstairs is a pretty open layout with the living room, kitchen, and dining area in the center which are all open and bedrooms on either end. I have been lurking on this forum for a while and learning alot about heating with wood. I have three options I am pondering. Wood stove on main floor and heat just the main floor (basement is currently unfinished). Very large wood stove in basement and heat both levels. Wood furnace in basement hooked into the existing duct work for the gas (propane) forced air system.

A little more about the house. I only have 1 heat option which is the forced air system. It is only heating the main floor as there are no ducts blowing into the basement. Propane is EXPENSIVE! I have calculated that a wood stove could pay for itself within 2 years if I am able to heat the entire house with it most of the time (backup would be propane and for when we are gone). The basement walls are insulated so the temp even with the -35F temps we have been seeing doesn't even drop below 50F.

There are vents in the lower portions of the walls on the main floor that go into the basement that are one day suppose to be hooked up into a cold air return for the furnace. I would plan on leaving those open if I were to go with a wood stove to let the heat escape the basement ceiling.

Would this work? Is there a large enough stove to heat my entire house?

 

[mellow]

If you have the existing duct work I would go with a wood furnace addon, the Caddy/Max Caddy would be ones I would look at. Take a look at Kuuma as well, but they are only rated up to 3000 sq ft.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. 4800 sq ft is more like 2 homes worth of heating. It would require at least 2 stoves or a large wood furnace to heat.

What is your propane consumption like in gallons/month during winter? Do you know the output rating of the furnace?

 

[DougA]

Agreed, that's both too large and area and too spread out to use one stove successfully IMHO. Having 2 stoves is a lot of extra work that you may or may not find a burden. Keep in mind that it may be fun for a few years but becomes more of a chore after that sometimes. An outdoor furnace is fairly easy to maintain and should be able to hook into your ductwork. That would be my preference due to lower insurance, less mess inside and able to pump out the heat. Perhaps one stove inside combined with a indoor or outdoor furnace. The advantage of that is that if your hydro is down, you have wood stove heat for part of the house.

Another option would be a heat pump attached to your furnace plus one wood stove. That way, the propane only comes on when it is super cold and you should see a payback on the heat pump within 5 yrs. but non of the work of a wood furnace.

 

[begreen]

Or consider turning the home into a duplex?

 

[firefighterjake]

Another vote for going with a wood furnace if you have the heating ducts or they can easily be put in . . . this is a fairly large house for a single woodstove.

 

[coldMN17]

My thoughts were that a furnace would be the way to go if I am going to rely on it to heat my entire home.

What is your propane consumption like in gallons/month during winter? Do you know the output rating of the furnace?

This is only the first full winter that I have owned the house. Filled 350 gallons into propane tank in October, Filled another 350 in at the end of December. It has been an extremely cold winter so far this year.

Also, I do not know the output of my furnace. There are no labels on it or a brand/model. There might be a tag on the inside cover. I will have to check it out more. I would assume its fairly new as the house is only 5 years old. I have owned the house for a year now.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

definitely a furnace, otherwise you'll have hot and cold rooms all thru the house with a stove, even 2 stoves. Heats just not going to circulate that well in such a big house no matter what you do.

 

[coldMN17]

Maybe I should just go with an outdoor wood boiler. Both Central Boiler and Heatmor are local so I could look into getting one of those pretty easy. Then add a stove inside one day as more of a hobby stove than a main heat source.

 

[begreen]

Installing an outside or sheltered boiler is an option, but perhaps better if you already have the hotwater circulating heating system infrastructure in place. To start out from scratch is going to be a large initial expense and you want to do it right. Post a query in the boiler room here for some expert opinions on this.

 

[begreen]

What is your propane furnace output btu rating? We need that for starters.

Here are a couple wood furnaces to consider:
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACES/YUKONKLONDIKEWOODCOAL/tabid/58/Default.aspx
(broken link removed to http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=563&Page=description)

Or would you consider installing 2 freestanding large wood stoves that only need loading once a day? I'm thinking a pair of Blaze King Kings here.

 

[coldMN17]

I did a little research about my propane furnace. Found out that is 16,000 nominal CFM and 100,000 BTU rating. We keep our main floor at around 65 degrees and the basement stays around 50-55 degrees even though there are no vents blowing air into the basement. I think with the way the walls are constructed they hold in heat very well. The basement walls are insulated concrete form construction (it looks like Styrofoam on the walls and the cement is in between, around 4" or so of the foam both inside and out.

 

[begreen]

OK, the place is reasonably well insulated then. This could be manageable if we forget about the basement. The stove is an area heater, put it where you want the heat. If you started out with one large, well placed stove on the main floor I think you would note a significant improvement. The gas furnace would still come on in very cold weather, but not nearly as often. In milder weather (above +10? ) it might not come on at all. The three that come to mind are the Kuma Sequoia, Blaze King King and the Hearthstone Equinox.

 

[wkpoor]

100K BTUs doesn't sound like enough furnace for a Minnesota house that big or even half that big. Thats the size of my furnace in an 1800sqft house in central Ohio.
OWB are nice for situations like yours but keep in mind during power outages you'll need a generator if you want heat.
Everyones situation is different but I find 2 stoves no more work then 1. In fact my wood consumption went down with 2.
2 BKs is an option but I wouldn't be delusional into thinking you'll go 24hrs between loads in Northern MN unless you like your house 57 degrees.

 

[weatherguy]

Not 24 hours but a lot of days he would only have to load the stoves twice, which isn't too much work at all.

 

[begreen]

The size of the house is less important than the insulation and sealing. That is why I wanted the size of the furnace. My BIL heats his 2300 sq ft home in NY with a low btu boiler. The place is super insulated and sealed. It's miserly on fuel.

 

[coldMN17]

The PDF I downloaded off the manufacturers website said 100 MHB (x100). Unless I am understanding that wrong.

If I went with a centrally located stove on the main level I think my only problem would be chimney height. I am thinking the chimney would go straight thru the roof but since my roof pitch isn't very steep the height would be somewhere around 14-16 feet depending on stove location. This way I would still be able to do a top down sweep or clean the cap.

 

[begreen]

What PDF would that be for?

16 ft would suffice.

 

[jatoxico]

Hi coldMN and welcome, mind if I ask where the wood is coming from. Maybe somebody who knows better could guess but sounds like 10 cords/yr or more if you go boiler which is a lot to process whereas a stove might acting as a supplemental heat source might use 3/4 cords.

 

[mark cline]

Your basement wall system is made of ICF (insulated concrete forms) with an R value about R20 . Hopefully your floor is insulated underneath too. A forced air furnace would add heat to your basement , making it a very usable space in the winter . Like for wood working etc. A side note , I don't know what your fire codes are , but in New York , the styrofoam needs to be covered with dry wall at a minimum for fire code.

 

[Berner]

100K BTUs doesn't sound like enough furnace for a Minnesota house that big or even half that big. Thats the size of my furnace in an 1800sqft house in central Ohio.
OWB are nice for situations like yours but keep in mind during power outages you'll need a generator if you want heat.
Everyones situation is different but I find 2 stoves no more work then 1. In fact my wood consumption went down with 2.
2 BKs is an option but I wouldn't be delusional into thinking you'll go 24hrs between loads in Northern MN unless you like your house 57 degrees.

Did I read this right? Your wood consumption went down after you added a second stove?

 

[HotCoals]

Outside boiler with a water to air exchanger is not the best thing. If you already had hot water baseboard I would say do it.
I heat 2500sq.ft. no problem with the king but it is two story and heat rises so it's not a problem...I don't heat the basement.
Anyways 2400 sq,ft on one level would still be a chore to get the heat spread around with one stove...but it could still save you a lot of coin.
If it was me a big wood furnace(forced air) in the basement then maybe a stove in the area you are in most if you wanted it.
Is your basement walk out..if not can you get the wood in easy enough through a window?

 

[wkpoor]

Did I read this right? Your wood consumption went down after you added a second stove?

Absolutely, With only a basement stove I was pushing that bugger to the max to get enough heat. Now I can practically idle 2 stoves and we are much more comfortable. Last evening it was 5 degree out and the first floor was 80 and the loft plus bedroom was 82. I woke to -5 and 72 on the first floor with no night reloads. In yrs past I would have stoked a time or 2 at night just to keep the stove top running as high as possible at all times and the first floor would have barely stayed 64. Our main entry is the walkout basement so maintaining 2 stoves is more hard than 1 as long as I remember to grab a stick or 2 when I come upstairs.

 

[Ashful]

I heard large, long house with woodstove.

We're heating an old, drafty, large, and long house with two Jotul Firelights. The house was previously set up with six zones of oil, plus two zones of propane, plus three zones electric resistive, and we've added another zone with a mini split, but removed the propane fireplace the previous owners used very frequently. House is 100' wide x 40' deep, slightly irregular, but central envelope heated with wood stoves is only 5800 sq.ft. The floor plan is most definitely NOT open, being mostly 1770's construction with a few additions since, and thick stone walls with narrow doorways separating the three parts of the house. We put one stove at either end of the house, and have had moderate success. The furnace (oil) must still run to keep remote areas of the house warm, but with both stoves going for the majority of the winter, we find we're paying only $3k to heat this place each year, whereas the previous owners paid $7k per year.

I will say that maintaining two stoves, particularly in the early years when wood quality may not be ideal, gets old very fast. With one stove, you can sit by it and do your work (laptop) or watch TV, and just occasionally glance over to see what it's doing during the start-up cycle. With two stoves at opposite ends of a 100' wide house, I am quickly wearing a path in the flooring between the two stoves. With six loads of wood per day (three per stove), I'm getting lots of exercise running back and forth every few minutes for an hour after each reload. Things would be better if my wood quality wasn't so highly variable, but still...

On the wood furnace, I couldn't bring myself to do it. First, I routinely hear guys claiming they 20+ cords per year in those things, to heat places much smaller than my own, due to the enormous losses associated with outside furnaces and boilers. I'm burning only 5 - 6 cords per year with two wood stoves, although I plan to increase that to perhaps 8 cords in coming years. Second, my reasons for burning wood are as much about the enjoyment of having a fire to tend and watch, as saving money. I said it gets old fast, mostly referring to the chore of feeding two stoves before work at 6:30am, not the enjoyment of sitting by them in the evening. I don't think I could bring myself to do all the work of felling, limbing, bucking, hauling, splitting, stacking, moving, and loading wood, to have it hidden outdoors in a boiler shed.

If I wasn't so picky on cosmetics, I'd be looking at two BK Kings to heat a large house. Maybe they'll Ashfordize a King someday soon, and I'll have no excuse left to stick with my old Jotuls.

 

[begreen]

Heating the 2400 sq ft in a well insulated house on one floor, I think a single large stove will make a major dent in the propane bill. If you haven't already started on stacking and drying your wood supply, time to have at it.