Is this normal? Chimney question

[naviathan]

Last year we had a chimney fire and a local sweep told me I would have to replace any of the flue tiles that are cracked. I was hoping to get to this earlier in the year, but I'm sure everyone knows how that goes. I finally made my way up and started my inspection. All 5 of the tiles are cracked. Plus the mortar around the top is cracked and obviously leaking into the gap space between the flue tiles and the veneer. So I pulled out the trusty hammer drill and started working out the mortar. What I found under it boggled my mind. The gap space between the flue tiles and the veneer is filled with broken pieces of brick! I would have to clear this space before I could pull the old tiles out. I don't have a clean out at the bottom of the chimney for some reason so I have no way of clearing the smoke box out should I dump a bunch of brick and mortar in there. There's one company that does the heat shield liners in our area and they're booked solid until November before they could even do an inspection. If anyone has any advice or suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Highbeam]

Total removal is always an option. Then replace with a modern class a system. That’s what I did.

 

[bholler]

Last year we had a chimney fire and a local sweep told me I would have to replace any of the flue tiles that are cracked. I was hoping to get to this earlier in the year, but I'm sure everyone knows how that goes. I finally made my way up and started my inspection. All 5 of the tiles are cracked. Plus the mortar around the top is cracked and obviously leaking into the gap space between the flue tiles and the veneer. So I pulled out the trusty hammer drill and started working out the mortar. What I found under it boggled my mind. The gap space between the flue tiles and the veneer is filled with broken pieces of brick! I would have to clear this space before I could pull the old tiles out. I don't have a clean out at the bottom of the chimney for some reason so I have no way of clearing the smoke box out should I dump a bunch of brick and mortar in there. There's one company that does the heat shield liners in our area and they're booked solid until November before they could even do an inspection. If anyone has any advice or suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes it is normal. And no you dont have to refill it. Just put the new stainless liner in place wrapped in insulation. Then pour a crown that overhangs the chimney by 1.5"

 

[naviathan]

Total removal is always an option. Then replace with a modern class a system. That’s what I did.

Yes that is an option...Unfortunately I do not have the funds for such an extensive repair.

Yes it is normal. And no you dont have to refill it. Just put the new stainless liner in place wrapped in insulation. Then pour a crown that overhangs the chimney by 1.5"

I'm having a hard time understanding how this would work. Can you clarify? As far as I know the stainless steel liners are like big ducts that go down the chimney and connect to the insert. My insert doesn't have this capability.

 

[bholler]

Yes that is an option...Unfortunately I do not have the funds for such an extensive repair.



I'm having a hard time understanding how this would work. Can you clarify? As far as I know the stainless steel liners are like big ducts that go down the chimney and connect to the insert. My insert doesn't have this capability.

So you have an insert simply slid into the fireplace?

 

[naviathan]

So you have an insert simply slid into the fireplace?

Yes. It's sealed around the masonry and has it's own flue adjustment. The smoke simply has no place to go but up.

 

[bholler]

Yes. It's sealed around the masonry and has it's own flue adjustment. The smoke simply has no place to go but up.

Can you post a picture of it? I beleive what you have is referred to as a slammer and is not to code. It is also very unsafe. But you could also be referring to a metal firebox referred to as a heatform. Which is why i need to see a pic to know what advice to give.

 

[naviathan]

Can you post a picture of it? I beleive what you have is referred to as a slammer and is not to code. It is also very unsafe. But you could also be referring to a metal firebox referred to as a heatform. Which is why i need to see a pic to know what advice to give.

I don't have a pic, but this is definitely a slammer. I googled. Makes sense considering you have to slam it into place. The house was built in 1975, so not being up to code covers about 90% of the house.

 

[bholler]

I don't have a pic, but this is definitely a slammer. I googled. Makes sense considering you have to slam it into place. The house was built in 1975, so not being up to code covers about 90% of the house.

Does the insert have metal doors of its own or does it have glass doors added to it?

 

[naviathan]

Does the insert have metal doors of its own or does it have glass doors added to it?

It has metal doors of it's own.

 

[webby3650]

This would be a great time to pull that old monster out of there, replace it, and install an insulated 6” liner down through the existing clay chimney liner. I see decent deals all the time for used modern inserts. Some even come with the liner!

 

[barnaclebob]

After having a chimney fire with the old system why would you want to keep the same unsafe system? Any chance homeowners insurance would cover anything?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/slammer-installs-whos-running-them.79338/

Sounds like chimney fire are nearly inevitable with slammers.

 

[naviathan]

This would be a great time to pull that old monster out of there, replace it, and install an insulated 6” liner down through the existing clay chimney liner. I see decent deals all the time for used modern inserts. Some even come with the liner!

To switch to that type of fireplace I'd have to go to a much smaller insert. The slammer barely fits through the masonry hearth vertically. Horizontally it's got lots of space.

After having a chimney fire with the old system why would you want to keep the same unsafe system? Any chance homeowners insurance would cover anything?

I have not checked with them yet, but so far insurance has been useless on everything I've sent their way. The chimney fire was my fault. I didn't have it cleaned and the wood I was burning wasn't quite seasoned yet. It was a rushed winter. I was expecting to move and it fell through.

 

[bholler]

To switch to that type of fireplace I'd have to go to a much smaller insert. The slammer barely fits through the masonry hearth vertically. Horizontally it's got lots of space.



I have not checked with them yet, but so far insurance has been useless on everything I've sent their way. The chimney fire was my fault. I didn't have it cleaned and the wood I was burning wasn't quite seasoned yet. It was a rushed winter. I was expecting to move and it fell through.

If you intend on using the stove you need to hook a liner to it. You already got lucky once and nothing happened from a chimney fire in a dangerous setup. Do you want to push your luck with another one?

 

[naviathan]

If you intend on using the stove you need to hook a liner to it. You already got lucky once and nothing happened from a chimney fire in a dangerous setup. Do you want to push your luck with another one?

I would like to get a new stove (there's no way to hook a liner to the one we have) and get a flex liner to run up the chimney. However, I'm limited on funds and would need to do this as inexpensively as possible. Unfortunately, looking at the measurements, I'm not exactly in the best shape to do this. Pardon my crude dry erase drawings. My flue tiles look to be too small internally to run an insulated liner up, even a 6". Also, the hearth has limited height to fit a stove with anything hooked to the top of it. Then there's the chimney height that, according to what I've read, is too short to draft properly. It seems like every corner I turn here has me in the worst position to get this fireplace working again anytime soon.

 

[webby3650]

There’s plenty of inserts that will fit in there and draft just fine. The damper is too small for a liner to fit through, it must be notched to make room. Very standard stuff. The liner and adaptor get attached to the insert after it’s slide inside the fireplace.

 

[naviathan]

There’s plenty of inserts that will fit in there and draft just fine. The damper is too small for a liner to fit through, it must be notched to make room. Very standard stuff. The liner and adaptor get attached to the insert after it’s slide inside the fireplace.

Thoughts on the flue tiles? Will I have to clear the chimney...That's the long laborious part I'm really dreading. I knew I would have to cut the old damper frame and notch out the bricks. That's not a problem. I became proficient with the hammer drill when removing an old concrete and brick porch several years ago.

 

[bholler]

Thoughts on the flue tiles? Will I have to clear the chimney...That's the long laborious part I'm really dreading. I knew I would have to cut the old damper frame and notch out the bricks. That's not a problem. I became proficient with the hammer drill when removing an old concrete and brick porch several years ago.

You will need an oval liner to fit in your clay

 

[naviathan]

You will need an oval liner to fit in your clay

Of course. The most expensive ones... Alright, time to get numbers and finda loan agent...I hate this house...

 

[SculptureOfSound]

I have nearly an identical setup...same size clay tiles and even shorter chimney (13 foot even).

If your chimney is straight and can take a rigid liner I'd recommend doing what I did. Price out Duravent rigid oval duraliner at plumberstock.com and then have Northline express price match (i did this because northline had it all in stock so no waiting, plus they knock off another $25 or so). You'll need an oval to round adapter, oval flex and then rigid the rest of the way up. You'll also need the oval extend a cap kit.

Great part about the rigid is that you can easily extend your chimney height by almost 4 feet (the only catch is no pipe joint/seam above the clamp.)

I did this for about $750 all in and now have almost 17 feet of pipe. It's 50 degrees out today so draft shouldn't be the best but my fire is drafting great and I had no problems getting the fire started, and this all with an insert that is generally regarded as not the easiest drafted (VC Montpelier)

if you have questions let me know

 

[naviathan]

I have nearly an identical setup...same size clay tiles and even shorter chimney (13 foot even).

If your chimney is straight and can take a rigid liner I'd recommend doing what I did.

What do you mean by straight? It's straight up and down but a couple of the flue tiles have shifted so there's a lip in a couple spots.

 

[bholler]

What do you mean by straight? It's straight up and down but a couple of the flue tiles have shifted so there's a lip in a couple spots.

That is probably enough to cause a problem

 

[Trey1979]

I know 12x12 clay flue tiles are heavy as a mf. Just put 3 on a customers house there about 2 foot long

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[naviathan]

I know 12x12 clay flue tiles are heavy as a mf. Just put 3 on a customers house there about 2 foot long

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I think mine are 8x12? I'll get up on the roof tomorrow and see if I can get some decent pics down the flue.

 

[naviathan]

Ok here's some pictures I took today. Thankfully i was wrong about the flue size. I might actually be able to fit a 6" insulated liner. The tiles are 18*13 with an inner dimension of 15 3/16” * 10 7/16”. So that said this may not be as difficult as I initially thought.

The bad though is from the bottom of the smoke deck to the top floor tile is only 10' 11". Very short chimney overall.