Is this the beginning of something serious?

[Bugsplatt]

I'm already aware that Profab is defunct, and it wouldn't matter anyway as I bought this stove from a former dealer who had gotten out of the business due to failing health and was one of two he had left. This is an Empyre Elite XT 100.

I installed this before last season (winter 2015-16) and it has now been in service for about 3 weeks so far this season. I noticed these cracks had formed since I cleaned the stove last Saturday and am concerned that this is only the beginning of a much more serious issue. Any feedback would be appreciated so long as its helpful.

The cracks are approximately 1.25" in length and appear to have originated at the corners. Do any of you believe this is something that can be fixed before it gets much worse? Can it be welded from the exterior only?

Also, is there something going on with this same plate just above the opening of the burn chamber? Seems unusual buildup, but I didn't want to mess with it to find out. I have not observed any leaks, but am concerned that this could be the result unless I take action soon.

This morning as I went to take these photos I also noticed that the fiber board in the secondary burn chamber is beginning to deteriorate. If anyone knows of a source for replacements, I would be grateful if you'd share that info.

Thanks!

 

[Fred61]

The cracks could be weeping and drying out from the heat. If you haven't done it already, shut off the make up supply and monitor your pressure for a few days.
Don't know much about your boiler but it looks like the area is accessible enough to allow welding.

EDIT: You could also check for excessive steam out the top of your stack.

 

[mustash29]

The Empyre is not pressurized.

What version is your 100? All carbon steel? Factory refurb with the lower 1/2 of the firebox stainless? Full stainless firebox? I'm just curious. I'm not sure if the later all stainless ones still had carbon in the tunnel area.

I have a factory refurb that I still have yet to hook up or fire. When looking at the front of the tunnel (like your first pic) it looks like there is a weld bead running away from the top corners at a 45 deg angle. The weld passes very close to the "corner" of the top fire tubes.

It looks like yours is cracking just inboard of those welds, possibly behind that top horizontal too. I would cool it off, clean it very thoroughly and have a reputable welder check it out. Hopefully it can be patched up. Once a crack forms they will usually keep migrating & growing. Have the crack ground out into a "V" shape. Drill a relief hole at the ends of the crack. This will relieve the stresses and keep it from migrating again. Have it all welded up and hope for the best.

You really only have one season of use on this boiler right? How was your wood supply? Properly seasoned? Are you running it with a low return temp protection valve? How do you run it, i.e. loading it up all the time or only doing small frequent loadings? Empyre marketed these boilers to function like typical OWB and cycle / idle as needed. Excessive idling, wet wood & low temps seems to be the common thread in many of the failures that have been discussed over the years.

 

[Bugsplatt]

Thanks for the replies. I believe this is all carbon steel as there is no stainless showing anywhere. Last year's wood was well seasoned but improperly sized which led to far too frequent loading. This year I cut all my own so it is 24" by 4" max, the greenest of which is still in the 35% range, the more seasoned, which I'm using at the moment is less than 20%. I do tend to mix some greener wood with the seasoned at times.

Yes I have the "Optimizer" with the Danfoss valve which is supposed to protect the stove from return temp less than 140*.

As for loading, I generally load it heavy about 10PM and check it at 5:30AM, typically, if I am able to be around the place all morning, I'll tend the stove and allow it to complete the full cycle which helps burn off any creosote buildup. When this cycle completes, I'll give it a half load in order to get it back around 10PM.

The idle times at the moment are not long, maybe 20 minutes(?).

Regarding the questions about steam out of the stack, no, I haven't observed this. I'm not clear on the makeup supply and pressure monitoring suggestion. As far as I know, I have neither.

As these cracks appeared within 48 hours of last cleaning, I'm wondering if I allowed the metal to cool too much whilst cleaning and once it was refired the temp was too high, i.e., rapid expansion.

I appreciate the advice on the welding, that is quite helpful. Thanks.

 

[warno]

Coming from a welder here, I would suggest giving the area a GOOD cleaning with a putty knife to scrape away what looks like creosote build up there and get a better look at the area. is that area surrounded with water on the back side? if it needs welded it certainly can be done, it looks pretty easy to get at. just grind the area to a good bevel and burn it in.

 

[Bugsplatt]

I don't generally get creosote in the lower burn chamber, but typically clean away a lot of soot from these surfaces on a weekly basis, similar to the soot buildup in the tubes themselves. Thanks for the feedback/advice!

 

[warno]

Ok. that's good that it's not creosote, it looked caked on there pretty good. if it is just soot a good brushing with a wire brush will clean it up, then bevel and weld.

 

[mustash29]

Regarding the questions about steam out of the stack, no, I haven't observed this. I'm not clear on the makeup supply and pressure monitoring suggestion. As far as I know, I have neither.

Do you have a manual fill valve hooked up to the piping or just fill it with a hose via the level guage port? Last year, how often did you have to top it off due to evaporation? All you can do is keep an eye on you level guage to see if it is "using" water. Again, these boilers are atmospheric, not pressurized. A lot of other posters don't realize this and mention the pressure / auto fill valve thing.

I suggest you search and read every thread you can find here on Hearth about the Elite's. Some had corrosion issues on the lower right side of the firebox where the secondary air comes through on it's way to the tunnel. That looks to be a more difficult area to repair than what you currently have.

Here are a few pics of the area. If you need any more pics of a clean unfired unit for reference just let me know.



Another member pm'd me asking about the updated fire box design, so I figured I'd post the pics in here for all to see.

Stainless firebox liner, with the improved creosote lip to prevent drips from getting behind the brick. This is also what the removeable cover on the secondary air tunnel looks like:



Another shot of the secondary air duct cover:



Cover removed:



Top view of cover:



Bottom view of cover:



Right front corner of firebox, air comes down a duct along the right door jamb and enter the secondary air duct via this hole:

 

[taylorfarms]

It has been a few years, but I did look at a few profabs, and decided against them

if I remember right that does not have water behind it, only refractory, and I think is is more of a filler plate between the firebox and secondary chamber(but it has been a few years since I have seen one in person.

If that is truly just a fill plate, it is always going to crack there, as it is welded to the water jacket, it will get much hotter much faster than the water jacket because it has no water behind it (think about trying to sweat a copper pipe with water and without), and they will expand differently and crack.

I am a welder, and unless it starts leaking water, I would not mess with it, as welding is just going to transfer stress to other points in an already overstressed vessel IMO