New struggles with new-to-me Vermont Castings Encore 2550

[Squatcher]

I am probably the worst kind of wood stove owner, I have one that was in my house when I bought it a little less than two years ago. While not completely unfamiliar with wood stoves prior to buying this house, I certainly know a lot more about stoves after reading through the posts on this forum!

I am having a problem I need help with but first a few pertinent facts.

• The stove is a Vermont Castings Encore 2550. I'm not sure how old it is but the mfg date code on the back is 1219 (121st day of 2009 maybe?) I can see reading through some old threads here that maybe this was not a great stove to begin with but it appears to be in good condition and passed an inspection (with chimney cleaning) that the seller provided prior to my buying the house. the house was vacant for about 2 years prior to our buying it.
• The stove is not our only heat source, we just use it in the great room for a little extra warmth on cold nights and ambiance.
• The house also came with several cords of cut firewood - while it is only pine (we live in the Pacific Northwest!) it is quite dry and burns very well. I'm burng the same wood this year that I did last year.
• I did not attempt to use the stove for some time after we moved in, first because it was spring and then because I was just too busy with other things involved with having moved during a pandemic (not recommended btw!). I finally started using this stove almost a year ago and then starting again this Fall when it started to get cold again - but in both years mostly just weekend evenings unless its really cold out.

So here's my problem. I carefully read the owner’s manual before starting to use the stove last year so I knew how everything worked. Once I got the hang of how it liked to be fired up there were no problems at all, lit and burned very well, good draft etc and would burn all the wood to ash every night after I went to bed (I don’t fire it for overnight burning, ever).

Starting about a month ago I started to have trouble getting fires started. I was doing everything exactly as I had done before but it was just taking longer, sometimes even requiring multiple attempts which was odd. At first the fire would eventually get going as before and burn hot enough to maintain itself and I could shut the damper so the secondary chamber would operate, but before long that was no longer possible, shutting the damper would shut off the fire. Then I found I was having to leave the stove door cracked open to maintain any burn at all, and now I really can’t even get a fire lit without considerable difficulty so I have quit using it until I figure out what is going on.

My first thought was obviously a blockage in the chimney, unlikely to be soot/creosote since I had less than a year’s light use since the last cleaning but I thought maybe a critter nest or something. I can fit my phone camera in through the damper and look up, no blockage up to the one bend in the stove pipe. I went on the roof, took off the cap and looked down, no blockage there either (and very little soot buildup). The one piece of pipe I can’t see – the bend- is only maybe a foot or so and I think very unlikely to be blocked, plus I am getting no smoke in the house or backdrafts. The damper and airflow throttle appear to be fine, and I have kept the ash collection pan reasonably cleaned out. I think this stove has a catalytic converter (how do I tell?), but I don’t believe that activates until the damper is shut (correct me if I’m wrong) so I don’t see how that could be keeping me from lighting a fire? At any rate, while I readily acknowledge my lack of experience with stoves I am just stumped, there just aren’t that many moving parts here and nothing else has changed, no new ventilation fans in the house or anything like that and I'm using the same firewood. I always crack a window when I light it to make sure I’m drafting in the right direction, and I can definitely feel the air moving up the chimney before I light the kindling. And again, I am not doing anything differently then when I first started using it and it worked great, including the first part of this season.

I’ve got a stove guy coming out to look at it in a couple of weeks, but was wondering if anyone here has any ideas? After reading more threads here I am guessing I need some kind of stove repair/parts replacement, or a rebuild?. Given the apparently mixed rep of the stove and expensive parts I assume it might be best to just replace it, but it would be nice to be able to at least use it through this winter (or longer) and hope that supply chain issues get better over the next year. I’m not sure there is much to choose from at present. And it is supplemental heat. Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Does it have this problem even with the bypass open? In that mode there should be little internal restriction. Is the thermostatic air control still connected by chain to the air intake valve? Does the control work easily and fully open the air valve in the back?

 

[stoveliker]

Have you tightened the home? Are there exhaust fans running? (Tho this would unlikely result in a progressive worsening of the situation as you described, it's good to rule out a problem in supplying air from the home to the stove - the next "stop" on this route is the Tstat issue mentioned by begreen).

 

[Rickb]

Did you run out of the wood that was there when you moved in and are using new wood?

 

[kennyp2339]

You have to remove your burn plates at the rear of the stove and check for a clog - these stoves are notorious for having issues with clogging there since they are a down draft stove (top loader) your circa 2009 is pretty much smack in the middle of the demise of VC, expensive and fragile stove parts, save yourself the headache and start looking for a new stove.

 

[Diabel]

It is either the wood (you have no history on it) or there is a ash clog somewhere. Clean the stove, pipe, refractory air passages and gently brush the cat.

 

[TradEddie]

Not sure what the weather has been like in your neck of the woods, but if temperatures are above 50F, it's difficult to get my stove to light and run well. It's been an exceptionally mild Winter so far on the east coast, and I've rarely fired up my stove. It takes a whole different approach, and anything less that perfectly seasoned wood makes it almost impossible.

TE

 

[Squatcher]

Thanks for all of the responses and suggestions! a quick rundown on replies:

• Yes I still have the problem with the bypass open, I have not done anything different than what I originally did when I started using this stove. All of the controls appear to work as before.
• We have not tightened the home and have made no changes in ventilation or exhaust fans. The house is fairly tight so I have always cracked a window when lighting the stove – but again have not changed anything in my practices there
• Still using the same wood that came with the house when we moved in, I have probably two cords left.
• I will have to do a little research on how to get in and check for ash clogs - can anyone recommend instructions or a diagram that shows me how to do that? I'm a pretty handy person and do a lot of my own work on everything else so not afraid of diving into it. Just no experience with stoves.
• Also, can anyone verify my interpretation of the date code 2009? I assume the most likely year of manufacture is 2009 based on 1219.
• Weather - I have wondered about this. It has NOT been warm here as TredEddie wondered, it's been the opposite – (very) unusually cold. Could be a coincidence but there is no question that my problems got worse when the temperature dipped. Normal for this time of year (western WA) is maybe 32-35 at night but the temps have not gotten that high even in the daytime and we’ve had night in low 20s or even teens for the past week. It’s also conceivable I have more than one thing going on and the low temps just made the other issue(s) a bit more pronounced. My "chimney" is just a metal stove pipe, and I would say about a third of it is in the unheated attic or above the roof - so the upper reaches are way colder than normal.
• I do think I will probably replace this stove but I would really like to be able to get through the rest of this season with it, there's not much available for sale at the moment and it would be nice to be able to shop around and have a little wider selection and get what I really want.

Thanks again for all of your responses and let me know if anyone has anything to add, really appreciate your help!

 

[Squatcher]

Didn't realize the instructions for removing the refractory and catalyst element were in the manual. Catalyst looks fine, and probably was replaced not long before I bought the house. May take the refractory apart as well. Supposed to finally warm up a bit tomorrow, will be interesting to see if that changes things.

 

[Squatcher]

Everything is now clean, cat element looked great. But I was thinking about how much worse my problem got when the weather got colder and wondering if that's the big variable here. Yesterday it finally got up to about 40 again so I lit a fire in the afternoon, had no problems at all, burned just like it did a month ago, plenty robust enough to close the damper and move to secondary burn. Then this evening was about 30 (not that cold by national standards but a little colder than normal for here - but not as cold as last week), had a little more trouble getting it going. I was eventually able to close the damper and get some secondary action going but it only lasted for about an hour or so before I had to open everything back up as the fire was going out. Its taking way too much effort to keep it going at this point.

So 30 degrees is not that cold, and of course the colder it is outside the more you want your wood stove cranking. I don't have a chimney per se, just a stove pipe (uninsulated I assume). About 11" in the great room to the ceiling (13'6" ceilings but starts a couple of feet off the floor), then probably another 7 or 8 feet in the uninsulated attic and maybe 4 feet up on the roof. Could this really be my problem? Guess I'll know a bit more when the weather warms up a little, but as is stands right now it appears my stove has trouble maintaining draw when the outside temp is 30 or lower. If that is really the case, how would I remedy that?

 

[clancey]

Not being a expert on all of this--know very little here but your stack seems really high and i just wonder if you have any moisture coming into it from maybe high humidity and cold or something..Maybe its damp or something--just trying to think outside the box here..old mrs clancey

 

[begreen]

Everything is now clean, cat element looked great. But I was thinking about how much worse my problem got when the weather got colder and wondering if that's the big variable here. Yesterday it finally got up to about 40 again so I lit a fire in the afternoon, had no problems at all, burned just like it did a month ago, plenty robust enough to close the damper and move to secondary burn. Then this evening was about 30 (not that cold by national standards but a little colder than normal for here - but not as cold as last week), had a little more trouble getting it going. I was eventually able to close the damper and get some secondary action going but it only lasted for about an hour or so before I had to open everything back up as the fire was going out. Its taking way too much effort to keep it going at this point.

So 30 degrees is not that cold, and of course the colder it is outside the more you want your wood stove cranking. I don't have a chimney per se, just a stove pipe (uninsulated I assume). About 11" in the great room to the ceiling (13'6" ceilings but starts a couple of feet off the floor), then probably another 7 or 8 feet in the uninsulated attic and maybe 4 feet up on the roof. Could this really be my problem? Guess I'll know a bit more when the weather warms up a little, but as is stands right now it appears my stove has trouble maintaining draw when the outside temp is 30 or lower. If that is really the case, how would I remedy that?

When was the chimney last cleaned? With the bypass open there should be a clear path from the firebox to the flue. Is there a screen in the top cap?

 

[Squatcher]

The chimney was cleaned just before we bought the house, so it has just about a year of light use on it since the last cleaning. I can fit my phone camera in through the damper and look up, no blockage or creosote up to the one bend in the stove pipe. I went on the roof, took off the cap (no screen) and looked down, no blockage there either, and very little soot buildup - practically none. The one piece of pipe I can’t see – the bend- is only maybe a foot or so in length and I think very unlikely to be blocked, plus I am getting no smoke in the house or backdrafts.

Tonight was a bit warmer, upper 30's when I lit a fire and the stove worked like a champ. I think I can safely say that I appear to only have a problem when the outside temp is 32 or lower. Frustrating, not sure what else to try? Do folks sometimes have to insulate metal stove pipe that runs through an uninsulated attic?

 

[Diabel]

Do folks sometimes have to insulate metal stove pipe that runs through an uninsulated attic?

I have not read the whole thread yet. This part I don’t understand……

 

[stoveliker]

The chimney was cleaned just before we bought the house, so it has just about a year of light use on it since the last cleaning. I can fit my phone camera in through the damper and look up, no blockage or creosote up to the one bend in the stove pipe. I went on the roof, took off the cap (no screen) and looked down, no blockage there either, and very little soot buildup - practically none. The one piece of pipe I can’t see – the bend- is only maybe a foot or so in length and I think very unlikely to be blocked, plus I am getting no smoke in the house or backdrafts.

Tonight was a bit warmer, upper 30's when I lit a fire and the stove worked like a champ. I think I can safely say that I appear to only have a problem when the outside temp is 32 or lower. Frustrating, not sure what else to try? Do folks sometimes have to insulate metal stove pipe that runs through an uninsulated attic?

The attic section should be class A, just as outside. Not stove pipe.

 

[Squatcher]

The attic section should be class A, just as outside. Not stove pipe.

It probably is. Whatever it is, what is in the uninsulated attic is the same as what's above the roof. Prior to having this issue I had never given it a 2nd thought since it was all here when bought the house. I'll try and find someone to take a look at my installation and confirm its proper, but at least I've narrowed my problem down to the fact that the only variable that causes a change in my stove performance is outside air temp - below about 32F I have problems, above that it all works great. Fortunately typical winter lows in my are are in the mid-30's, but it is a bummer to not really be able to use the stove well during cold snaps like we had last week.

 

[stoveliker]

Class A is (already) insulated. And is being used in Canada at far lower temps, when (as physics tells us) draft increases.

I therefore can't fathom it's your chimney that causes this. Physics just doesn't agree with that.

You said you always open a window when you light the stove. Is it closed when running the stove?
Is a bathroom window open in mild temps but closed when it gets cold?

 

[Squatcher]

Class A is (already) insulated. And is being used in Canada at far lower temps, when (as physics tells us) draft increases.

I therefore can't fathom it's your chimney that causes this. Physics just doesn't agree with that.

You said you always open a window when you light the stove. Is it closed when running the stove?
Is a bathroom window open in mild temps but closed when it gets cold?

I agree, it doesn't make sense to me either. I do close the window after lighting the stove. No other windows are ever open in the house when the stove is used. I have also checked for any running exhaust fans in the bathrooms when I have had stove trouble but they were off. The clothes dryer has sometimes been running, but there does not seem to be a correlation with stove performance. The only constant I have established is that when it is below freezing outside I have trouble lighting and maintaining a hot fire. As this is not our primary heat source anyway I'll probably just have to live with it but it is very annoying and makes no sense to me.

 

[bigealta]

Maybe your furnace is running longer and pulling more air out it's flue when it's colder. That could be why the cold is effecting your stove more so when it gets colder.

You could just turn your heat off for a couple hours and see if it makes a difference.
Water heater too if it's gas.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes. Given that it's a tight home, given that the chimney is claimed to be clear, and given the physics of draft and temperature, the only thing i see that can cause this is air supply.

 

[Squatcher]

Yes. Given that it's a tight home, given that the chimney is claimed to be clear, and given the physics of draft and temperature, the only thing i see that can cause this is air supply.

Then I guess the questions is what could affect my air supply when the outside temp drops below 32F? I rarely even run the furnace when using the stove and never when lighting a fire, just occasionally for a few minutes before going to bed to warm up the rest of the house. One window cracked when lighting and until the fire gets going. No exhaust fans on. The dryer has sometimes been on but there has been no correlation with my problem. Weird.

 

[bigealta]

Then I guess the questions is what could affect my air supply when the outside temp drops below 32F? I rarely even run the furnace when using the stove and never when lighting a fire, just occasionally for a few minutes before going to bed to warm up the rest of the house. One window cracked when lighting and until the fire gets going. No exhaust fans on. The dryer has sometimes been on but there has been no correlation with my problem. Weird.

Yeah, it's just backwards. The colder it is the stronger my draft, the better my stove burns, and the more i can close the stove draft control.

 

[bigealta]

Could this be a "Stack effect" situation?

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, i was thinking the same. You say the home is tight. Are you sure? If there are leaks to the attic, the home might function as a flue. I.e. there may be a lower (under-)pressure on the lower floors because the "home-flue" is venting warm air up into the attic. The low pressure below is alleviated when you open a window at the start. When the home gets warm when the stove is going, and the window is closed, you might get a flow from lower floors into the attic. Then there might not be enough air infiltration on the lower floors to give the stove enough air. (Evidence of a borderline issue there already is the need for an open window at the start.)

 

[begreen]

^^ this ^^
Do a careful examination of the upstairs for leaks. If you don't find any there still may be some. Our house has had multiple remodels, most were not done to code. Our living room ceiling was dropped 6" (to 9'6") in order to install a bunch of recessed can lights during a 1984 remodel. This created a plenum that connected to wall and chimney cavities and created suction on the first floor living room up to the attic.