It looks like a GREAT deal on a used (new) stove ($800) but is it? Has ANYONE even "heard of" or h

[53flyer]

Does anyone HAVE the Sierra Ambassador 4700TEC or know anything about their stoves? I haven't seen a lot about them but it looks pretty nice and is being offered for $1299. Here's what the website says: ((broken link removed to http://www.sierraproductsinc.net/pages/woodstoves.htm))

"Sierra Ambassador 4700TEC bay window fireplace insert offers more than just great looks. It is truly a whole house heater with standard feature including wide angle view of the fire, glass air wash system, ash pan, great, and high output thermostatically controlled blower system. This long burning catalytic insert will hold 24" logs and heat up to 3000 sq/ft."

It says it has a thermostat (like the BK stoves?) and an air wash system which I believe most cat stoves don't have right (i.e. dirtier windows)? What does it mean when they say: min flue draft is .06wc in the "Dimensions & Specifications" link at the bottom of that sierra website (bottom left)? Does that have something to do with going from an 8" flue to something else?

Thank you very much!

 

[brokeburner]

do they make a liner adapter to match that flu opening looks rectangular

 

[learnin to burn]

Quote "It says it has a thermostat (like the BK stoves?) and an air wash system which I believe most cat stoves don’t have right? What does it mean when they say: min flue draft is .06wc in the “Dimensions & Specifications” link at the bottom of that sierra website (bottom left)? Does that have something to do with going from an 8” flue to something else?"

The thermostat it is talking about is for the fan. Just means the fan will come on when enough heat is produced and it will go off when no heat is produced. Cat stoves do have an air wash system some are better than others depending on how old the unit is.

 

[BrotherBart]

That is a $2,500 heating beast right there. If that guy was around here that stove would be on my truck tonight. The thermostat isn't for the burn it is for the blower fans. .06wc is a measure of the chimney draft and .06 is a pretty normal draft. You would use an 8" oval to round adapter to connect it to a 8" liner.

It is a different company now but I burned in a Sierra pre-EPA insert that size for over twenty years and loved that stove.

 

[fdegree]

The .06 wc is referencing a pressure requirement within the flue for the draft to function properly. wc = water column, which a unit of measure.

 

[BrotherBart]

Be advised that those are pictures copied off of zoobler.com.

 

[53flyer]

The thermostat isn't for the burn it is for the blower fans.
.06wc is a measure of the chimney draft and .06 is a pretty normal draft.
You would use an 8" oval to round adapter to connect it to a 8" liner.

It is a different company now but I burned in a Sierra pre-EPA insert that size for over twenty years and loved that stove.

Be advised that those are pictures copied off of zoobler.com.

Hi BB, thanks for the reply.

1) The stove you had was before they were apparently bought by "empire". What do you think of the new company?

2) Where'd you get the $2500 price you stated (it's the exact amount the seller said he bought it for).

3) I didn't know what zoobler was till I searched and found: (broken link removed to http://www.zoobler.com/product.php?sku=4700TEC&m=4700B&b=Sierra+Products&c=stoves) Are you thinking it looks like a scam? There's an install video on that webpg you (or another forum member) might find interesting but I can't see it (dial-up).

4) Is it ok to go from an 8" oval to 6" pipe? I "think" the manual (pg5 #6) http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt1.pdf appears to tell me I can use a 6" liner but I'm not positive.

Thanks for any info you can provide!

 

[BrotherBart]

The $2,500 is off of zoobler. I don't know if it is a scam, go look at his stove. There isn't much to the video. As far as the liner goes, if the manual says you can then you can.

 

[mellow]

Sierra makes good stoves, SPI who bought out sierra's product lines stands behind their products, I have had some very long detailed talks with them about stoves that they didn't even purchase from Sierra, they are more than willing to help out. That 4700 is a tank of a heater, I wish I could find one in that price range around here.

And yes they make an adapter that goes on that rectangle and converts it to 8" then you get an 8" to 6" adapter and run 6" flex up your chimney, as long as your chimney is tall enough for it to draft well.

Btw, is it brand new for that price?

 

[53flyer]

mellow- Yes, it's supposedly new. Wow, it's interesting to hear from someone with Sierra experience because it seems like practically no one has heard of them or their products. How long ago did you have your Sierra, which one was it, and why did you get rid of it?

I've had someone tell me "you never want to reduce a draft from 8 to 6" but I know people here have mentioned that sometimes a manual will even say it's ok... The bottom of pg's 5&10; of the following link "sort of" (but not directly) seem to indicate 6" could be ok but I'm not 100%. http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt1.pdf

I called all the dealers here and 90% never heard of Sierra. A few made the comment that it would have to be a lesser stove because the better brands (he rattled of about 6-7) only allow their stoves to be sold in stores. "Self interests" came to mind but he didn't even carry half the names he rattled off and the whole "as seen on TV" thoughts did go through my head irt Sierra possibly being a lesser brand. I'm trying to find their emissions stats but haven't been able to locate them yet which adds to my concern because it's readily available for most brands. Also, while searching their stove info I found 2 different figures for wood size for the same stove (24" or 20"). I believe it takes 24 but why can't they get it straight?

Another eerie feeling comes from the guy I called who basically said he took the pictures when, as BB pointed out, they actually come from that zoobler site. I see no good reason for him to lie about that and not just say he cut & pasted them do you? One lie makes me question more of his comments and he was a little shaky on a few other Q's. Another weird thing (not terrible, but very uncommon) is that he apparently has an escalera which seems very unusual for an avg joe to have.

 

[53flyer]

UPDATE: I went to look at the insert and (Forum input is greatly desired.):

It's a beast (570lbs). He told me Sierra isn't as common on W coast just like Quadra-fire, Lopi, BK aren't common on E Coast. Any E Coasters that know about this stove or this supposed E Coast presence ?

The weird oval opening on the back seems like it would be difficult to get a good seal on without doing a lot of caulking &/or stuffing of an intermittent gap where the oval shaped metal connector piece goes into the oval hole.

The cat can't be seen like on other cat stoves because there's a big steel plate "box" bolted on the top where the cat "supposedly" is. I'm a little concerned by the possibility of the 2 nuts and bolts being hard to separate (to check cat) after yrs of firebox use. Here's one for you: The guy said the location shouldn't be an issue "especially since the cat shouldn't need to be serviced/replaced for at least 20+ yrs"... He's a former chimney sweep too.

The manual doesn't say anywhere what the precise gph or efficiency figures are. Instead, there's one of those horizontal graphs with an arrow pointing down to an area so you can "interpret" what the number would be.

Instead of having multiple firebricks it has 2 main ceramic pieces (one on each side of center steel ash grate) that are about 3/8" thick and have a fire brick pattern stamped in them. They seem a bit thin and instead of going anywhere that has basic firebricks I think I'd have to go through the Sierra for all replacements (at a premium I'm guessing). There were no fire bricks on the sides like in my Quad, is that normal/ok?

Couldn't turn the fan on (temp activated) so I have no idea how loud it is. This wouldn't be as much of a concern if people could give me 1st hand Sierra fan experience but I'm having difficulty finding any Sierra users (and I don't want a jet engine). Anyone.., Bueller.., Bueller..?

The ash pan didn't close very well because the latch that's supposed to turn up to lock and sideways to unlock doesn't go down enough to allow the pan to slide all the way in. If you manually push it down just as you're pushing the pan in you can get it to work and it's possible this could be adjusted I guess. The middle of the firebox has a steel plate with swiss cheese holes for the ash to fall through.

I Really Like: Good size firebox but I know it's more about how well the technology works irt weather or not all the wood is burned efficiently or not (i.e. a big converted oil drum could hold a lot of wood but it wouldn't burn it efficiently). I've read people here say the VC cat systems are crap compared to something like BK's cat but I don't know if this cat would be more like the VC or BK stoves... The firebox is 25" across on the inside and it doesn't angle to a smaller width as it goes back so it would easily take 24" wood. He said can give me a receipt from his shipping company to get the 30% tax credit (although since it's never been "put into use" I believe it qualifies without that anyway) It does look nice (bay window is great) but looks are very low on the priority list.

 

[Wet1]

I wouldn't say Sierra is common on the east coast either, I know I've never seen one in my northeastern travels, but someone please else correct me if I'm mistaken. It sounds like BB has some history with them so there must be a few on the east coast. Anyway, for $800 I'd have a hard time passing it up if it's like new and it fit my application.

 

[mellow]

For that price I wouldn't turn it down, give SPI a call and talk to them, they are good people that from the dealings I had with them will try and help. I can't tell you the model number on my old Sierra because it did not have a UL plate on it. They (SPI) did not purchase that older model of Sierra stove when they bought out the old Sierra. Anyway, they still tried to help me and asked the old techs if they still had any info and went out of their way to get me info on the stove.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Sierra, the model I had was built like a tank and I am sure the 4700 is built the same way.

 

[BrotherBart]

The Sierra stoves started out in Harrisonburg, Virginia in the early late 70's/early 80's. When the EPA regs came into play they never got around to building a certified stove and one morning the employees showed up for work and the doors were locked. They sold a bazillion stoves on the east coast and some farther inland during the energy crisis. The name and designs have belonged to at least two companies since then. The last one being Sierra Products, Inc. in California. They have some stuff built off-shore now.

Here is that stove's T-4500 "smoke dragon" grandaddy in all of its 650 pound glory. It had an early secondary air design that feed the extra air in over the top of the door glasses and under the baffle to crate a floating blue cloud under the baffle that I glanced back at before going up to bed for 21 years. 4.3 cubic foot firebox, 1/4" stove body and 3/8" plate top. In 2006 it ran away on me and I discovered a popped weld in the back of the firebox hidden by the baffle. In fact twenty minutes after the pic was made the stove top was at 1,425 degrees. The paint on the thermo and in the middle of the top plate vaporized at 1,185 degrees. But nothing on the stove warped. I still have it out back. I pulled it out of the fireplace the next week and rolled in the 30-NC because the weld was inside the shroud so it couldn't be re-welded and the stove owed me nothing after heating this joint for all those years. PS: At a stove top temp of 550 degrees the chimney exhaust was always clear as glass. I just busted the stove by burning too may thousand degree fires in it and banging N/S big splits against the back of the firebox too many times.

I would give that bay window cat version a run in my house in a heartbeat.

 

[YZF1R]

BortherBart, that looks like a beast. It sure looks built heavy even in the pics.

Steve

 

[BrotherBart]

BortherBart, that looks like a beast. It sure looks built heavy even in the pics.

Steve

Yeah and that is only half of it out in front. :ahhh:

 

[Todd]

[quote author="53flyer" date="1258425298 Here's one for you: The guy said the location shouldn't be an issue "especially since the cat shouldn't need to be serviced/replaced for at least 20+ yrs"... He's a former chimney sweep too.
[/quote]

He's full of it! You need to take the cat out and brush or vacuume out the fly ash about once every cord of wood burned. Cats usually last about 3-6 years more or less depending on how the person burns their stove. Dry wood and proper maintenance will extend it's life but 20 years is very doubtful unless you are an ocassional burner. I've never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it's pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

 

[THEMAN]

UPDATE: I went to look at the insert and (Forum input is greatly desired.):

It's a beast (570lbs). He told me Sierra isn't as common on W coast just like Quadra-fire, Lopi, BK aren't common on E Coast. Well, any E Coasters that can speak to this?

Thats a heavy puppy. Its sounds somewhat like the Buck model 91 that I got on Craigs list. My stove only has firebrick on the floor and has a weight of 575lbs I suppose the sides are so thick that firebrick is not required. Hope it works out for you, theres nothing like scoring big on a used stove for a great price.

 

[maggard]

My sister has one of those old sierra inserts in her house. My dad had the house built in around 87. chad

 

[North of 60]

53... If its a CAT and it HAS BBs consent, then its a no brainer. You sound like your a thrifty guy and I think this stove has your name on it.

 

[North of 60]

He's full of it! You need to take the cat out and brush or vacuume out the fly ash about once every cord of wood burned. Cats usually last about 3-6 years more or less depending on how the person burns their stove. Dry wood and proper maintenance will extend it's life but 20 years is very doubtful unless you are an ocassional burner. I've never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it's pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

Todd, Iam on year five, 30+ cords of wood and never pulled or vacumed my CAT only lightly brushed the face with a paint brush.
This is a pic on year three and still looks like that on year five.

 

[mellow]

Guess I will post a shot of my old Sierra as well. That stove put out some massive heat for its size and had no problem doing overnight burns.

 

[53flyer]

Quotes summarized a bit:

For that price I wouldn't turn it down, give SPI a call and talk to them, they're good people that from the dealings I had with them will try and help. SPI didn't purchase the older models of Sierra stove when they bought out the old Sierra but they still tried to help me and went out of their way to get me info on my older stove. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Sierra, mine was built like a tank and I'm sure the 4700 is the same way.

The Sierra stoves started out in Harrisonburg, Virginia in the early late 70's/early 80's. When the EPA regs came into play they never got around to building a certified stove and one morning the employees showed up for work and the doors were locked. They sold a bazillion stoves on the east coast and some farther inland during the energy crisis. The name and designs have belonged to at least two companies since then. The last one being Sierra Products, Inc. in California. They have some stuff built off-shore now.

Here is that stove's T-4500 "smoke dragon" grandaddy in all of its 650 pound glory. It had an early secondary air design that feed the extra air in over the top of the door glasses and under the baffle to crate a floating blue cloud under the baffle that I glanced back at before going up to bed for 21 years. 4.3 cubic foot firebox, 1/4" stove body and 3/8" plate top. In 2006 it ran away on me and I discovered a popped weld in the back of the firebox hidden by the baffle. In fact twenty minutes after the pic was made the stove top was at 1,425 degrees. The paint on the thermo and in the middle of the top plate vaporized at 1,185 degrees. But nothing on the stove warped. I still have it out back. I pulled it out of the fireplace the next week and rolled in the 30-NC because the weld was inside the shroud so it couldn't be re-welded and the stove owed me nothing after heating this joint for all those years. PS: At a stove top temp of 550 degrees the chimney exhaust was always clear as glass. I just busted the stove by burning too may thousand degree fires in it and banging N/S big splits against the back of the firebox too many times.

mellow- Here's what seemed odd to me: The tech support guy I talked to said he couldn't find the actual emissions (gph) or firebox size (he kept quoting the outside dimensions and saying it takes 24" wood). Aren't those 2 items that should be readily available (esp at the manufacturer level)? He actually inferred that the firebox size was proprietary info and some sort of "keep it from the competition" thing...(I’m not kidding). Perhaps it was just this particular individual but that kind of thing seems a bit odd doesn’t it?

BB- I understand that some people have had a older stoves that they may have liked but my concern is irt how good they are now. It's either a matter of nobody wanting to give them a chance due to Sierra being less mainstream or because they aren't as good as they used to be (I wouldn't want it to be the later). Your comment irt having stuff built off-shore now indicates a "potential" change in quality right??

Anyone- Do all these concerns (phone call answers, potential change in manufacturing quality, and lack of consumer feedback form anyone with a “current Sierra product”) seem unwarranted? I just want to be as well informed as possible before I get something that seems to be "completely unknown" to almost everybody. If this was a Lopi or BK I'd already have it at my house...

 

[BrotherBart]

Buy another Quad.

 

[polaris]

If your insecure about it you could always offer a thousand bucks and see what happens. I personally wouldn't be to afraid at the asking price. It is new right?
Joe