Jotul 600 dv Firelight won't light

TomD Posted By TomD, May 11, 2017 at 10:00 AM

  1. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
    10
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    Loc:
    California
    First my stove had trouble responding to the wall thermostat but worked fine with switch on stove. Today the switch on the stove would not work. Fiddling around I turned off the pilot and tried to relight. Igniter sparked for awhile when pushed but now no spark. Seems like I now have multiple problems, any advice is greatly appreciated. The stove is approximately 15 years old and has never had a problem although the pilot flame does seem to have been getting longer and more yellow. Thank you.
     
  2. DAKSY

    DAKSY
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    Dec 2, 2008
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    Check the wiring on the back of the Piezo igniter. On a stove 15 years old,
    wiring can become brittle & if the sheathing fails the spark will go to
    somewhere other than the pilot hood.
    What kind of fuel are you burning? LP or NG?
     
  3. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    I am burning LP
     
  4. DAKSY

    DAKSY
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    Dec 2, 2008
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    LP tends to be a little more harsh on internal components.
    Your elongated pilot may be due to a compromised pilot orifice.
    They cost very little & are fairly easily changed.
    Have you ever had the unit serviced?
     
  5. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    The only servicing I have had done is cleaning out the fire box with vacuum.

    Any thoughts on the thermostat issue?
    Places to get parts? Our local store is not too reliable. Thanks
     
  6. DAKSY

    DAKSY
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  7. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    Thanks. What do you suggest if I can't get the igniter to spark? Will replacing the igniter fix that problem?
     
  8. DAKSY

    DAKSY
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    Remove the wire from the back of the piezo. It should simply unplug.
    Put your finger on the end of the piezo & depress the igniter.
    If you get a shock, you know it's good.
    Don't worry about the voltage, it's about 30vDC.
    (It's not a taser!)
    If you don't get a small shock, replace the igniter...
     
  9. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    Thank you very much for your advice. You have certainly given me some places to start. It doesn't seem like the end of the world anymore!
     
  10. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    I haven't been able to check the piezobut lit the pilot. Sometimes the stove starts and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't I can't hear the click I usually hear right before. Should I replace the thermopile and thermocouple? I can never remember which does what.
     
  11. DAKSY

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    The thermopile controls the burner. Have you taken a millivolt reading on it? If so, what numbers did you get?
    Are the screws tight where the thermopile connectors are attached to the valve's terminal block?
     
  12. Kyoufu

    Kyoufu
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    May 10, 2017
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    I would ignore the igniter for now, it is a minor problem and easily solved as long as you can get the pilot lit to troubleshoot your bigger not lighting issue. Once your pilot is lit, did you take DAKSY's advice and try bypassing the thermostat by touching the wires together?

    Did you verify the screws on the valve holding the wires are tight and no visible corrosion on the connections?

    If so, what was the result? Did the unit light any better, or was it still intermittent?

    If you find nothing, and get same results touching wires together as using t-stat then next step is put a multimeter on the thermopile. Take note of the number, then turn the unit on and take note of the number. Post it here.

    If it's not the thermostat/wiring it sounds more like a valve issue than a thermopile issue to me, but could be either one. Easy way to check valve is if you turn the t-stat on and unit should turn on but doesn't leave it in the on position and go give the valve a solid smack, being careful not to damage anything. If the unit kicks on it is almost certainly your valve.
     
  13. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    OK, I checked the millivolts on the thermopile and the numbers are 420 with just the pilot and lit they are between 175 and 180. When I got home from work today I attempted to turn on the heater at the thermostat first, nothing. I went to the switch on the heater, nothing. Back to thermostat it lit but with a jet sound. Turned off and back on, jet sound again. Off and on again no jet. When I initially turned it on I didn't hear the characteristic click I usually hear. I tried to whack the valve and that may have worked. Seems like after I get going and thenTurn it off it light easier on subsequent tries. Is the valve hard to replace? My stove is LP. Can the valves be ordered already converted to LP?

    Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate the direction. I'm fairly handy and am sure I could fix this myself if I knew the problem and can get parts.
     
  14. DAKSY

    DAKSY
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    Dec 2, 2008
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    The "jet" sound is a misalignment between the burner orifice & the burner.
    LP is heavier than air so it puddles below the burner & is burning in the area of the air shutter.
    See if you can realign them.
    You millivolts are WAY low. They should be in the 550/220 range...
    Did you try to adjust the pilot flame to bring them up? There is an adjustment screw on the gas valve.
    In the 11+ years I spent in the hearth industry, I saw exactly TWO valves that had gone bad.
    It is a VERY RARE occurrence.
    If you can't adjust the pilot, I would lean towards a "hinky" thermopile. Change that out first.
    Universal Millivolt generator at True Value is in the $50 range,
     
  15. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
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    I decided to first try to clean the thermopile and see if that would help. No more millivolts after cleaning but I also cleaned the piezo and that started to work again. I also tried to clean the pilot hood because my flame seemed to high and yellow. I vacuumed and tried to sand some of the crud out of the holes. I relit the pilot and now the pilot won't reach the thermopile or thermocouple and I even get some blue flame at the base of the pilot hood where ther are two holes. The flame will even rise a bit off the pilot hood. The material that came with the stove says that the pilot hood just pulls off but I couldn't get that to happen. I think the whole assembly is a SIT top mount pilot assembly that comes with a thermopile, thermocouple, and pilot hood. It seems that replacing the entire assembly might be the best idea, time and money wise. I can't find the exact part number online (0.199.714) . I burn LP. I will try to call my local shop but not sure what the outcome of that will be due to some fairly negative reviews of the shop. Any recommendations for locating the part or what my other problem might be? Thanks
     
  16. Kyoufu

    Kyoufu
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    May 10, 2017
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    Loc:
    Canada, BC
    Sounds like either your line pressure has dropped significantly somehow, something is blocking the the gas, or you loosened the pilot hood and didn't re-tighten it. Make sure all relevant valves are fully open also.

    I don't necessarily agree with DAKSY about the mv numbers you posted. They are a little bit low for sure, but they are far above the thresholds needed for your valve to work and are unlikely to be causing any of the problems you listed. It's still possible that the thermopile is the issue of course, I've seen some with poor / erratic internal connections but to me the original problem at least sounds like a valve issue. I like the "whack" trick because it is repeatable and if it works it almost instantly allows you to troubleshoot something that is otherwise very difficult, and often time consuming and expensive to troubleshoot. If the wack doesn't work, it doesn't mean your valve is fine, but if it does work it 99.99% means your valve is shot. If you do it and you're not sure if it worked or it was coincidence just repeat it five more times to be sure.

    As far as your pilot flame's newly developed issue it sounds like some sort of orifice blockage or pilot tube blockage which was causing that irregular pilot flame got worse. That could have been causing poor contact, explaining the low number, and now the issue is causing no contact at all.

    I do not know your level of expertise, so I am not recommending you do this. It's up to you to abide by your local regulations and to know your own limitations, as propane especially can be extremely dangerous. With that said, if it were me and I was on a job with the symptoms you have described with the pilot, I would turn the gas off at the valve which is hopefully very near to the appliance. I would then remove the internals / burner etc if necessary in order to disconnect the pilot tube from the pilot hood. I would then test the pilot tube to see if gas is making it through by turning the gas on, pushing the pilot in and observing / feeling / listening / pressure testing the pilot tube. If all seems well up to the end of the tube then you know the blockage is the orifice and a vaccuum, compressed air, a pin, wire brush, tooth brush etc - something can be used to correct the blockage.

    If you are unable to rectify the problem I don't think there is any advisable path for you other than purchasing the correct Jotul part through a dealer or online company. Trying to source SIT parts via OEM numbers is quite difficult, and I do not know of any reference guide available to help if the part even exists in the form that you need. There are too many sizes, orientations and other variations to be able to get assistance with this in an online forum, and delayed ignitions or other potential problems if the the replacement is not done correctly or with the correct part can be extremely dangerous.

    I did a quick search online, according to this manual (https://www.manualslib.com/manual/80511/J-Tul-Gf-600-Dv-Firelight.html?page=26#manual) the pilot assembly is 129471. The only listed part is for NG so you would have to either remove the orifice from your old pilot, or order a new one. (129473)

    Also, I am not specifically familiar with this make / model; these are my best guesses based off of the afore mentioned manual. Make sure you verify part numbers, and conversion process with the correct manual for the unit.
     
  17. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
    10
    1
    Loc:
    California
    Thanks for thoughts on this problem. I think you are correct about the blockage. I can't get the pilot hood off to get into the orifice. I've tried vacuuming and compressed air to no avail. I also removed the pilot tube and put gas through it to check for blockage. Something is most likely stuck where I can't get at it. I have tried the knocking on the valve and I don't think it is the valve. I think I am just going to replace the whole assembly. I found a place in Maine that looks promising for parts. I will call my local shop Monday and most likely will call the place in Maine as well.

    Thanks again.
     
  18. 49er

    49er
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    Jan 10, 2011
    57
    2
    Loc:
    Los Gatos, CA
    We have a Jotul Sebago so this might not apply to your stove but on ours you need to remove a wire clip before the pilot hood will come off.

    P5210008.JPG P5210007.JPG
     
  19. TomD

    TomD
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    May 11, 2017
    10
    1
    Loc:
    California
    Thanks. Looks just like mine. I removed the clip but the pilot hood was very stuck and I couldn't get it to come off. I'm going to go the total assembly replacement route. The stove is 15 years old and it can't hurt to start over with new parts.
     
    49er likes this.
  20. 49er

    49er
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    Jan 10, 2011
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    Loc:
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    I got our replacement assembly from Woodsmans Parts Plus here on the site.
     

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