Jotul 8 (1st gen)

scottgen20 Posted By scottgen20, Oct 17, 2015 at 3:59 PM

  1. scottgen20

    scottgen20
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    Feb 15, 2006
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    Hi All,

    I just picked up what I think is a very nice condition Jotul 8 in red. Stove looks to be well cared for, burn plates are all present and I don't see any warpage or hairline cracks.

    I've got a question around the stove top. This stove is currently set up for rear venting which works for me, but I noticed that the top lifts right off of the body. I think that I've read somewhere online that this is the case and that it's not bolted down, but I wanted to see if anyone else with one could weigh in. I'm also noticing that it doesn't look like there is any gasketing or cement between the stove body and the top. Could this be normal? Sure makes it easy for cleaning, but I want to make sure I gasket/cement if required.

    Finally, and I do know that I've read this before.. The stove has an oddball flue outlet.. It's 7". I've already ordered a 7" to 6" from my local stove shop as I'm sure none of the big box stores will carry that type of reducer.

    I'll post pictures shortly!

    Thanks,
    Scott
     
  2. begreen

    begreen
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    That seems odd that the top has no gasket. It should. Is there a gasket channel? Also seems odd about the 7" collar. It should be 150mm or about 6" measured inner dimension.
     
  3. scottgen20

    scottgen20
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    I had a chance to look the stove over more closely and it does look like there is a gasket channel. It's pretty narrow, so I think that gasket will be pretty obscure. I'm going to try and trim down some regular rope gasket and apply it to the channel. That should do it.

    I thought the 7" was odd, too, but I found the Jotul part number online and went ahead and ordered it. I measured the collar just to be sure and it was 7". Not sure why they would go with a 7" opening and then provide an adapter. They must have been trying something out that year..
     
  4. begreen

    begreen
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    Sounds like it could be 3/8" gasket. You might want to check with http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com to get the right size and density.

    What version of the Model 8 is this? They made a catalytic version too.
     
  5. scottgen20

    scottgen20
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    You were right - 3/8 fit perfectly into the channel!

    It's the original Model 8 with the spin draft wheel on the front (non-catalytic).
     
  6. lakesuperior5

    lakesuperior5
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    Oct 16, 2015
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    Hi Scott
    Can you tell me where you ordered the flue outlet from? I have been searching for a flue collar, part #23 with no luck. Jotul said they no longer make them. Woodsmanpartsplus did not have one.
     
  7. scottgen20

    scottgen20
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    Sure thing.. I ordered from a local stove shop - Wood Heat. Their website is: www.woodheat.com On the Woodsmanspartsplus side.. Did you speak with anyone? I did find the part on their website, not sure if it's in stock though -

    http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/169581/products/Jotul-Stove-Pipe-Adapter.html

    Thanks,
    Scott
     
  8. lakesuperior5

    lakesuperior5
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    Oct 16, 2015
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    Thanks Scott
    No luck with the collar yet but I will keep on searching.
     
  9. spirilis

    spirilis
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    I suspect 7" flue collar was to support its use as an open fireplace, as it does have the screen (and the door comes off easily). Even with an insulated 6" chimney there wouldn't be sufficient draft IMO to support open fireplace mode. But as a woodstove 6" is ideal.
     
  10. pixelated

    pixelated
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    Oct 22, 2015
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    I am currently burning with a circa 1989 Jotul 8. The top does lift off, but mine has a rope gasket cemented on the top. I believe there are notches cast into the top to bolt it to the sides, but it seems plenty heavy enough to stay in place and compress the gasket without mechanical assistance. I've never had it bolted down, being able to just lift off the top is nice for it's annual cleaning.

    The flue collar on mine is also 7 inch (set up for top vent), I bought it used from a stove shop way back when, and that's the way it came to me, and also what I needed for my install. I have a reducer in the pipe to go to the 6 inch chimney. It works, but I think it would breath better if it didn't have the reduction. I don't have the screen for it, so I've never used it with the door open (except for loading and starting;))

    It's in its last few weeks of service at my house, and is about to be replaced by a Hearthstone Manchester, but it has served me well for 20'ish years and owes me nothing. I'm likely going to put it up in the classifieds here, for short money, if anyone is interested.
     
  11. lakesuperior5

    lakesuperior5
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    Will look for your classified. You may be a bit far for me to drive but you just never know...
     
  12. pixelated

    pixelated
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    Lakesuperior,
    The flue collar from my stove is available, if you still need it, let me know.
     
  13. scottgen20

    scottgen20
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    Any chance you have either heat shields? My stove is missing the bottom and rear shield.

    Thanks!
     
  14. lakesuperior5

    lakesuperior5
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    Oct 16, 2015
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    Pixelated
    Found one last week in New Hampshire and am just awaiting its arrival. Thank you anyway

    Just read your ad, noticed it is a CAT, the original 8 has a different collar so this would not have worked.
     
  15. 1990Jotul

    1990Jotul
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    Feb 13, 2014
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    I know this thread is about 2 years old, but I'm hoping to get some information on this topic. A couple of people above seem to think it was strange that the original poster's Jotul 8 used a 7 inch flue. As far as I know, every Jotul 8 including the front wheel draft non-cats, the side controlled cats and the series 8 left side front lever cat models ALL had 7 inch flue collars. However, I recently discovered that 8's are still sold in UK (as of 2017) and these do have a 6 inch (150 mm) flu collar. The UK models do not have cats, but they do have the top front right side draft slider control like all of the catalytic models. I am now in the process of rebuilding my 1990 8TDIC. The Catalyst bypass mechanism is warped beyond usability. My plan is to remove the catalyst box and replace it with a top baffle plate, like the pre-cat's had. (I will also replace the back burn plate with a pre-cat part that covered the back opening from the bottom and channeled the exhaust down from the top of the stove.

    So I guess my question is, to get the best performance from the stove, should I leave the 7 inch flue collar on it (top mounted, going into 7 inch stove pipe up into a 8 inch chimney- the current setup) or should I install a 6 inch flu collar and 6 inch stove pipe going into 6 inch chimney?

    Finally, I doubt anyone here would know but I have ask. If I took my old 8TDIC and modified it as I described (removed Cat box, switched back burner plate, added top baffle from a pre-cat model and put on a 6 inch flue collar), would my stove be pretty much identical to a new Jotul F8 now sold in the UK?

    Thanks in advance to anyone who can help answer these questions.
     
  16. spirilis

    spirilis
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    Not sure about the last question, but I suspect the reasoning for the 7 inch collar is because the old Jotul pre-cat stoves were sold as "fireplaces" as well in that you could lift the door off its hinges and the stove came with a spark screen. 8 inch flues are preferred for older stoves that did that, so 7 was probably the European compromise (and/or the stove was actually small enough that 7 inches would suffice for open-door usage).

    So as far as your predicament... if you intend to keep it closed as a woodstove all the time, 6 inches is probably a better bet.
     
    begreen likes this.
  17. pixelated

    pixelated
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    Oct 22, 2015
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    Yes, the top just lifts off, no longer have mine, but as I recall there were bosses that would accept a bolt to fasten it down. Mine had a gasket glued in the top. Once it's seated correctly on the bottom part of the stove, the weight is plenty to seal the gasket, IME. Being able to lift the top off made service and cleaning really easy.

    In regard to removing the cat, that's what I did with ours, we also ran it with a 7 to 6 adaptor. 'Dunno if that makes it equivalent to the current version, but it made it draft a little better. On mine, the cat continually plugged up, so it was never very useful.
     
  18. 1990Jotul

    1990Jotul
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    Feb 13, 2014
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    Thank you for your response. I appreciate your recommendation and believe that a 6 inch system is the best way to go. I have decided to change the flue/stovepipe/chimney in two phases. I have removed the Catalyst assembly and am replacing it with the non catalytic back plate and top baffle. I will also switch out the 7 inch flue collar with a 6 inch one. I'll replace the 7" single wall black stove pipe have going straight up to the ceiling (about 7 feet long) with 6 inch double wall pipe. That's phase 1. I'll probably later replace the existing triple wall 8 inch chimney with a new 6 inch one. My thinking is that it will probably run pretty well after phase one and I really would like to limit the variables as much as possible so that I can actually see what improvements (hopefully) I get from each part of the project. I would probably leave the 8 inch chimney in place if it all works well, except that I know I will someday be getting a new stove that will want a six inch chimney, so I might as well get it ready for the future.
     
  19. 1990Jotul

    1990Jotul
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    Feb 13, 2014
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    Thanks for your input. Yes, you are correct the lid just sits on top, but there are forgings in the side plates and lid that would allow bolting it down, if you had the desire. You are also correct that having it unfastened certainly makes servicing easier. You mentioned that your cat "continually plugged up". I'm curious, did you have your stove exhausting out the back? I had mine exhausted out of the top and never had terrible catalyst plugging. Sure there would be some fly ash that would start to clog it a bit after a lot of burning, but I modified my stove to easily remove the cat for cleaning with compressed air. The stove was designed so that you could close off either the back or the top and then mount the catalyst and flue exhaust on the opposite opening. I believe they shipped it with the rear configuration, but it could be changed to top, which is what I have. In that top mounted configuration, the face of the catalyst was perpendicular to the floor (if you looked in the stove through the front door, you would be looking directly at the face of it. Yesterday when I took it apart and was looking at how it would fit in the back mounted configuration, it appeared the catalyst would be parallel to the floor with the face of the cat pointed up. That seems like it could lead to a lot of non-combusted solids falling on it and clogging it up. Hence my question about your configuration. I guess there may be some setups that require it, and maybe it is aesthetically desirable, but I would think that these stoves would operate much better exhausting out of the top. I'm surprised they didn't ship that way.

    Anyway, I have been doing quite a bit of research on these stoves and the parts that are available. I now realize that I did make a mistake in my original post. The Series 8 model (with the catalyst bypass control on the top left) did have a 6 inch flue collar ( I had mistakenly said that all of the USA marketed units had 7 inch). However, those 6 inch collars are not compatible with (will not fit) the earlier Jotul 8 stoves. The current F-8TD now being sold in Europe have 6 inch collars that ARE compatible with the older USA Jotul 8's. I am having to source my new flue collar from Europe.

    I will post a follow up at some point giving an update on how this worked out. I know I would have loved to have found some resources documenting the design history of these stoves and how to go about modifying them, but these came out in a pre-internet era and there isn't too much information out there. I was thinking I could write up a tutorial with part numbers etc, but then I realized that every year fewer and fewer of those old catalytic models are left and even fewer people have the motivation to do this mod. I am doing it because my stove's cat housing was just too warped to use any longer and I couldn't get parts for it. I toyed with getting a new stove but I found I've grown a real attachment to this old Jotul 8 and I just wanted to see what I could get it to do. I am guessing that after doing this, the efficiency of the stove may go up a little and it may become a little more easy to operate and maintain. On the downside, I am sure the emissions will go up and the burn times will come down. We'll see....
     
  20. joehonee

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    Please let me know how the conversion worked out. I have a Series 8 AP from 1993 that also has fried cat components. The rest of the stove is mint so if I could use modern EU pieces to convert to non-cat I would.
     
  21. 1990Jotul

    1990Jotul
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    Joehonee,
    I am finishing up the project now. I was waiting for 3 long lead time parts. Just got the 2nd one today. The last is on it's way from England and I expect it shortly. In the mean time I have replaced all of my chimney and stovepipe with new 6 inch, so the old Jotul 8 should be ready to go once I get that last part (a 6 inch flue collar). When it is done, and I've gotten to burn it, I will certainly report back on how it all worked.

    Now, regarding your project. Unfortunately, you will have to do a bit more work on the stove then I had to, in order to convert yours. Your 1993 Series 8 AP is significantly more "evolved" from an old pre-cat Jotul #8 than my 1990 8-TDIC was. Jotul came out with the original #8 in 1981. Then in the late 80's, new EPA emission requirements were about to be implemented and Jotul (all stove makers) had to quickly scramble to find solutions to meet them. Jotul USA in Portland Maine took the #8's coming from Norway and tried various ways of sticking catalysts in them. The first thing they tried was just putting a circular cat in the flue connector. That was called the 8C and didn't last long. Then in 1989 they configured the catalyst inside the stove with a bypass mechanism and added a new top draft with slider control (replacing the old spin draft on the door) . They called this the 8 TDIC (Top Draft Internal Catalyst). This is what I had (made in 1990). This configuration had a lot of operational difficulties, so Jotul did a major reconfiguration in 1991. They basically took the catalyst from inside the burn box and mounted it on the back of the stove. They also moved the bypass control from the side and put a push rod mechanism in the front of the stove. In order to do this, they had to completely change the back panel. This new design was called the Series 8. They made these for 2 years before adding an integrated ashpan in 1993. They called this the Series 8AP. Other than having an ashpan, it is identical to the Series 8. They made these until 1998 when the entire series 8 line was discontinued. So the final catalyst configuration was used for 8 years (1991-1998). One advantage of having that configuration is that it had a 6 inch exhaust flue connector, so it works with most modern wood stove chimney installations, without needing any adapter. The earlier models were all 7 inch. Sorry for all that history, but it will help to explain the process of "downgrading" your catalytic stove to a pre-catalytic state.

    For my my stove, all I had to do was take out the catalyst housing/draft bypass assembly. This essentially left me with a Jotul 8 shell. To make it virtually identical to the original Jotul 8 model, all I needed to do was then replace the back burn plate and install a top baffle. At that point, the only difference is a front top draft instead of the circular door draft of the old 8's. I decide to modernize it one step further, by taking off the 7 inch flue connector and putting on a 6 inch. This was possible because Jotul currently sells a model called the F-8TD in Europe. This is an old Jotul 8 with a top slide draft and a 6 inch flue collar. I ordered that 6 inch collar from England, so I will essentially have a current European model.

    For you to do this conversion, you will have to replace the back stove panel with a pre-Series 8 part (or for the current European F8-TD). If you want to exhaust the stove from the back, you will be good to go. If you want to vent it from the top, you may need to get a new stove top. (I am not sure, but the Series 8 may have lost the covered circular opening of the earlier models. Can you let me know? I am curious). At this point you would basically just need the back and top baffle plates that I needed. These were both available to order online, since they were old USA stove parts AND Jotul still makes them for the Europe (also for Australia, South Africa and maybe other markets as well). If you want to use 6 inch stove pipe, you would need to get a 6 inch flue collar from Europe/England. You need to order these from overseas, because they were never used on any USA model (of course you can use an adapter if you have larger pipe).

    There may be simpler ways for you to convert your stove, i.e. just removing the catalyst and adding the baffles, but I am not sure how this would work. The approach I mentioned above would actually give you a marketed equivalent, so it should be successful. Anything else I'm not sure about.

    Hope this is of some help to you (or others).
     

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