Jotul 8 - front grill not fitting?

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Hi folks,
just picked up a second one of these.. my first is in my home and we love it. This is the original with the spin draft on the front.
The second one we just purchased for my parents home and it was even cleaner than the one we got, but there is an issue.

When I put the log/ash retainer grill in place and try and close the door, the glass touches the grill just as the door is closing. We already had to replace the glass (expensive! $160!) because the first one cracked.

I'm pretty confident that internal baffles are all installed correctly and the bottom plate is sitting where it should.
Also, I compared the front grill in the new one to the one in my stove and they're identical.
What could be causing this lack of clearance!?
Stumped, in Maine.
Thanks!!

 

[jetsam]

I don't know anything about this stove, but that sounds like a problem that I would solve with an angle grinder.

 

[begreen]

Is this the part?


If this is the part it drops into place behind the two positioning bumps in the bottom burn plate. Make sure it is not backward.

 

[stovelark]

Very common thing for log retainers of Jotuls to bow outward slightly (check stove burn temp too that can cause this bowing), people breaking glass mysteriously usually gets this issue noticed. Not a large space in between glass and log retainer when they aren't bowed. Worn gaskets in the door exasperates this problem too sometimes when the door is pulled even closer inward by the worn gasket. I've seen people break 2-3 pieces of glass on Jotul 3's before someone at the store realizing the problem, but can happen with 8's too... the retainer that BG has in the pix is upside down too fyi.

 

[1990Jotul]

Very common thing for log retainers of Jotuls to bow outward slightly (check stove burn temp too that can cause this bowing), people breaking glass mysteriously usually gets this issue noticed. Not a large space in between glass and log retainer when they aren't bowed. Worn gaskets in the door exasperates this problem too sometimes when the door is pulled even closer inward by the worn gasket. I've seen people break 2-3 pieces of glass on Jotul 3's before someone at the store realizing the problem, but can happen with 8's too... the retainer that BG has in the pix is upside down too fyi.

Bringing an old thread back to life. I have a 35 year old Jotul 8. It has been in great condition and has all it's original burn plates. I've seen a number of posts on the internet regarding warped burn plates, sometimes with photos, and they look really bad. I've always attributed these to the owners over-firing the stoves. Whenever I am doing a thorough cleaning and inspection of my stove's insides, I always think about how perfect those parts all look after so many years of pretty hard use. Anyway, just tonight I suddenly observed firelight passing through, under the bottom of my log retainer where it should be sitting flat on the bottom plate. Sure enough, it's warped. However it's not arching forward towards the door, but rather upwards ( a 90 degree difference). I am now really curious about the cause of this. Is it just a matter of cumulative heat exposure with age? After all, it's had 35 Seasons of hot fires. Or was it because I may have pushed it a bit harder lately? We've had quite a bit of cold weather lately and I have been keeping that stove running right at what I've always considered the upper limit, pretty much continuously over the past week or two. Yet I feel like I have done this a number of times over the years. I'd be curious to hear what the circumstances of other Jotul 8 log retainer failures were (or if people are still finding theirs in perfect condition after 35+ years). Anyway, the part number (101941) is clearly stamped on it, and using that, I was actually able to find a new one on the internet pretty quickly, although I won't believe it until I actually have it in my hands. I can't tell you how good it feels when you can get a new part for a 35 year friend like my Jotul 8.

 

[stovelark]

Hey and great hearing an old Jotul girl is still doing her job. The internals can warp in any direction, outward inward upwards too. Its great to hear you can still get the part. Jotul guaranteed parts for 20 years after its production run ended, but lots of after market places too, a good Jotul part provider is Woodman's parts in NH. I'd suspect pushing the stove a little harder could've caused the quickening of degradation but after 35 seasons (100 cords plus probably), thats a lot of heat to come through that stove. Stove top thermometer is always your best friend to prevent overfiring (400-600 is ideal). Above 600 is tolerable but remember past a certain point of internal temperature, the stove's skin cannot absorb more heat to distribute to you, so it goes up the chimney, dropping efficiency of the burn. I've rambled enough, good to see an 8 doing its job still.

 

[1990Jotul]

Hey and great hearing an old Jotul girl is still doing her job. The internals can warp in any direction, outward inward upwards too. Its great to hear you can still get the part. Jotul guaranteed parts for 20 years after its production run ended, but lots of after market places too, a good Jotul part provider is Woodman's parts in NH. I'd suspect pushing the stove a little harder could've caused the quickening of degradation but after 35 seasons (100 cords plus probably), thats a lot of heat to come through that stove. Stove top thermometer is always your best friend to prevent overfiring (400-600 is ideal). Above 600 is tolerable but remember past a certain point of internal temperature, the stove's skin cannot absorb more heat to distribute to you, so it goes up the chimney, dropping efficiency of the burn. I've rambled enough, good to see an 8 doing its job still.

My new part came today. I actually did get it from Woodman's. Upon first inspection I got worried- it too has a bit of an upward arch. So I thought maybe I had just bought a part I didn't need (maybe the warping was on the base plate under it), but when I put the old and new part side by side, could see that the degree of arching was greater in the old part. Sure enough, when I put the new one in- it sits much better and only shows minimal gap beneath it. Otherwise it is identical to the old part. Exact same codes stamped on it, except for date. My old one says 04-90 and the new one 06-24. Yes, it is 34 years younger! I noticed that both have identical imperfections in them. I think they were cast from the same mold! Anyway, I always try to run my stove at about 450-500 degrees, sometimes it goes up to 600 but that's generally it. However I'm not measuring stove top, I measure from the flue. The stove itself is always cooler.

Attached are a photo of the old part and the new part. Note how you can see fire light under the old one but not under the new one. I can also rock the old one forward and backward, but the new one is more stable and won't rock.

No rambling on your part- all good info!

 

[1990Jotul]

My new part came today. I actually did get it from Woodman's. Upon first inspection I got worried- it too has a bit of an upward arch. So I thought maybe I had just bought a part I didn't need (maybe the warping was on the base plate under it), but when I put the old and new part side by side, could see that the degree of arching was greater in the old part. Sure enough, when I put the new one in- it sits much better and only shows minimal gap beneath it. Otherwise it is identical to the old part. Exact same codes stamped on it, except for date. My old one says 04-90 and the new one 06-24. Yes, it is 34 years younger! I noticed that both have identical imperfections in them. I think they were cast from the same mold! Anyway, I always try to run my stove at about 450-500 degrees, sometimes it goes up to 600 but that's generally it. However I'm not measuring stove top, I measure from the flue. The stove itself is always cooler.

Attached are a photo of the old part and the new part. Note how you can see fire light under the old one but not under the new one. I can also rock the old one forward and backward, but the new one is more stable and won't rock.

No rambling on your part- all good info!

So much for my enthusiasm over having a part made from the same mold- I was clearly wrong about this. I was always able to use my fire poker to lift the front piece by sticking it into the cutout in the middle front. Today I tried doing this with my new part and the poker wouldn't fit in. There were some distinctive marks on both the old piece and the new one that made them look like they could have come from the same mold, but I guess those marks are just a normal part of the manufacturing process and not mold-specific. We see what we want to see...

 

[Forester21]

Glad to see that your stove is still doing well after all of this time! It is encouraging that you can still get parts. I recently did a total rebuild on #8 built in 1984 and have been really happy with it so far. It's simple and easy to operate, what a great stove.

 

[stovelark]

Great to hear about the old 8. It was an incredibly simple yet reliable heater too. Was a nice looking model as well. The follow-on cat model was a disaster- Jotul went secondary burn asap on all their stoves. The top loading Firelight 12 was somewhat successful, but nothing like the follow-on non cat side loader. Keep warm, -2 this morning in CT where I work. BRRRRR...

 

[1990Jotul]

Great to hear about the old 8. It was an incredibly simple yet reliable heater too. Was a nice looking model as well. The follow-on cat model was a disaster- Jotul went secondary burn asap on all their stoves. The top loading Firelight 12 was somewhat successful, but nothing like the follow-on non cat side loader. Keep warm, -2 this morning in CT where I work. BRRRRR...

Your comment about the cat version being a disaster strikes home. I bought my stove new in 1990, right around the time EPA stove rules were coming into effect. I remember the stove dealer telling me how catalysts were the newest thing and how much cleaner and efficient they were. I actually felt lucky to be getting a stove just then and being able to have this new technology. I've learned a lot since. I do have to say that I had some nice burning with that catalyst. I remember watching it glowing away, with the stove turned down low, seeing nothing come out the chimney. However over the years it gave me some challenges. Being that this was my first wood stove, it took me many years to fully appreciate that every problem I had with it was related to that cat. One by one, I kind of learned to deal with each of them, and it really taught me a lot along the way. The first problem occurred when I had my chimney "professionally" cleaned after the first season. The guy left my catalyst bypass closed while brushing and all the creosote just piled up on top of it, backing up into the stove pipe. I had a huge surprise for my first burn the next year. Worst of it was, the corrosive material along with the summer humidity corroded my bypass hinges. To the extent that they wouldn't even work. Well, that taught me how to order parts and start playing with the stove's insides. Also,it got me to buying a good brush and rods and learning how to go up on the roof and clean the chimney myself. Then came finding a better way to remove the catalyst for cleaning. There was this protrusion in the cast iron front panel that seemed to have no other function then to prevent removal of the catalyst without lifting the top off. I took a torch to that and cut it off. Now, with a quick cool down I could pull the catalyst out through the front door, give it a quick cleaning, and be back burning again in minutes. Then there was that monstrous baffle plate that hung off the catalyst and seemed to take up half the available firebox space. I was talking to a Jotul technician in Portland Maine (their old location) and he told me, off the record, that I should just remove it. So I did. Wow- what an improvement. Over the years I dropped a few hundred dollars every now and then on a new catalyst. However by 2017 the cast iron catalyst housing was really warping (removing that baffle might have contributed to that) and I couldnt get replacement parts, so I decided just to take it out. At that point I learned Jotul was still making this exact same stove for Europe, except without the catalyst. It also had a 6 inch flu collar instead of a 7 inch one. So I also bought that part (from England). I also learned that when they added the cat, they took out a top baffle plate and modified the back one. I was able to get both of the pre-cat ones as new parts. When all was done, I essentially had the European model- the F 8 TD. Sadly, I just looked now and see they have finally discontinued this (its going to make getting parts more difficult in the future). In any case, I basically have an old Jotul 8 but with the top draft control. Having lived 27 years with a catalyst, I have to say I have enjoyed the simplicity of 8 further years without it.

 

[stovelark]

Good read. Seems you were patient and learned the cat operation too. Too many folks did not and just hated it. It was funny how fast Jotul switched over to non-cats, people flocked to Jotul. Their stoves were always good, but when non cats came out, they really shined. The original cast iron baffle Oslo F500 is still one of my favorites. Stay warm.

 

[cedricw01]

Your comment about the cat version being a disaster strikes home. I bought my stove new in 1990, right around the time EPA stove rules were coming into effect. I remember the stove dealer telling me how catalysts were the newest thing and how much cleaner and efficient they were. I actually felt lucky to be getting a stove just then and being able to have this new technology. I've learned a lot since. I do have to say that I had some nice burning with that catalyst. I remember watching it glowing away, with the stove turned down low, seeing nothing come out the chimney. However over the years it gave me some challenges. Being that this was my first wood stove, it took me many years to fully appreciate that every problem I had with it was related to that cat. One by one, I kind of learned to deal with each of them, and it really taught me a lot along the way. The first problem occurred when I had my chimney "professionally" cleaned after the first season. The guy left my catalyst bypass closed while brushing and all the creosote just piled up on top of it, backing up into the stove pipe. I had a huge surprise for my first burn the next year. Worst of it was, the corrosive material along with the summer humidity corroded my bypass hinges. To the extent that they wouldn't even work. Well, that taught me how to order parts and start playing with the stove's insides. Also,it got me to buying a good brush and rods and learning how to go up on the roof and clean the chimney myself. Then came finding a better way to remove the catalyst for cleaning. There was this protrusion in the cast iron front panel that seemed to have no other function then to prevent removal of the catalyst without lifting the top off. I took a torch to that and cut it off. Now, with a quick cool down I could pull the catalyst out through the front door, give it a quick cleaning, and be back burning again in minutes. Then there was that monstrous baffle plate that hung off the catalyst and seemed to take up half the available firebox space. I was talking to a Jotul technician in Portland Maine (their old location) and he told me, off the record, that I should just remove it. So I did. Wow- what an improvement. Over the years I dropped a few hundred dollars every now and then on a new catalyst. However by 2017 the cast iron catalyst housing was really warping (removing that baffle might have contributed to that) and I couldnt get replacement parts, so I decided just to take it out. At that point I learned Jotul was still making this exact same stove for Europe, except without the catalyst. It also had a 6 inch flu collar instead of a 7 inch one. So I also bought that part (from England). I also learned that when they added the cat, they took out a top baffle plate and modified the back one. I was able to get both of the pre-cat ones as new parts. When all was done, I essentially had the European model- the F 8 TD. Sadly, I just looked now and see they have finally discontinued this (its going to make getting parts more difficult in the future). But a few winters back, Karen started complaining about a persistent musty smell in the living room. John figured it was just from the stack of firewood they kept inside. Then their daughter visited for the holidays and noticed she was wheezing more than usual when indoors , she has mild asthma. That raised a red flag. They called a service mold inspection and testing orlando to check for mold or any indoor air quality issues. The inspector came out with moisture meters, thermal imaging tools, and air sampling equipment. In any case, I basically have an old Jotul 8 but with the top draft control. Having lived 27 years with a catalyst, I have to say I have enjoyed the simplicity of 8 further years without it.

Thanks for sharing all the ups and downs. seems like your experience with the cat model taught you a ton. I’m actually in a really similar boat. I’ve had my Jotul 8 since the early ‘90s as well, and went through a lot of the same learning curve with the catalyst, the cleaning hassles, the warping, all of it. I also ended up removing mine after years of trying to keep it going.

Funny you mention the European F 8 TD i tracked down that same flue collar and baffle setup a few years ago and made the switch too. The stove breathes better, runs simpler, and honestly, it’s just a joy now.

Did you notice any real change in burn time or heat output after removing the catalyst?
Mine feels about the same efficiency-wise, but I'm curious how it compares for you.

 

[1990Jotul]

Looks like you just joined the forum. Welcome! It sounds like you did your conversion after I did (late 2017). I'm sorry you didn't see all my posts about doing this before you did it. I posted a lot of information, just in case someone else needed to do it and I thought I could save them some time having to figure things out. Oh well...

To answer your questions: It would depend on the condition of the Catalyst and exactly how the stove was running with it. I can't be sure what your experiences with the catalyst were, but I found that when it was pretty new (i.e. under 2 or 3 years old), and clean, it could run very well. If I got a good hot fire running and got the catalyst glowing, I could turn the stove way down to where the logs were barely burning but the catalyst would continue to glow. There would be zero smoke coming out of the chimney. The stove would heat the house pretty well and with a full load of wood could go a good 8 hours or more. However, the reality is that it wasn't always in new condition and clean. When the catalyst was old or clogged up- the stove would just not run well with it engaged and I needed to bypass it. With it "decatalyzed", it now runs very consistently. I can get the same heat out of it, but only if I run it much harder. In fact, I can't even get it to burn as low as I could with the catalyst. I even added a damper to the stove pipe. If I close that too much the stove will occasionally belch out smoke when flammable gases build up in the stove and then suddenly ignite. So the stove does not run as well in a low, slow mode. This means the burn time is shorter. If I let it go 8 hours now it will go pretty cold. Running it high is another story. It burns great. As you said, like a joy. I just have to load it more frequently. But there is no fiddling with catalyst and having to clean it (or replace it). So I would say, definitely shorter burn time now, less heat on low now, about same heat on high. This means better efficiency running it low with the cat, if the cat was running well. However, here's something I really found interesting: my chimney is a LOT cleaner now without the catalyst. I used to clean my chimney several times a season and would always get a bag full of creosote out of it. Now I'll do it once every few years and barely get anything. This may be related to having concurrently changed from an 8 inch chimney/7 inch stove pipe to 6 inches straight through. However I am guessing it is probably because I now have to run the stove higher. It's just a cleaner way to burn.

Oh, one more thing to add about what I also like about running it now without the cat (and this may also be related to the smaller chimney/stove pipe diameter): I can use the stove in warmer weather. It used to be that the stove would not run well unless it was 40 degrees or less outside. Now I can burn the stove in any weather I wish to. For example, say I come home to a 55 degree house, when it's 55 degrees outside. I can light the stove and bring the house right up to a nice warm temp. The stove burns perfectly. I never could have done this before.

 

[stovelark]

You understand your Jotul very well, it can easily be seen too that you were interested in how it worked. For a lot of wood burners, they don't want to go that deep in understanding it, but the experience I find is better when you learn your stove's operating habits through and through. The 8 without a cat was a fine stove, nice looking and pretty darn solid. Thanks for your updates too. Stay warm, its getting nicer here in SE CT, but its still day to day. This past weekend was miserable, cold and wet.