Jotul F500 Oslo Chimney Routing

[Therivermonster]

Happy Friday, everyone! I am planning on installing a Jotul F500 Oslo in our 1000 SF house soon, and I have a few questions about chimney pipe routing.

This is my house. The stove will be positioned on the hearth to the left of the front door, between the door and the window on the front exterior wall.
(broken link removed to http://advblane.smugmug.com/Other/House-Renovation/i-CVg6RSf/A)

If I understand correctly, it is ideal to have as much of the chimney inside of the house. Would it be possible to run the stove pipe up into the atic from the stove located on the front exterior wall, then have it make a 45 to run along the roof parallel to the rafters almost up to the ridge line, then make another 45 to exit the roof a foot or so before the ridge line?

When I envision the chimney exiting the roof so close to the gutter/soffit, it just seems like it would look terrible, not to mention that it would be on the front of the house, and it would have to be super tall in relation to where it would exit the roof in order to draft properly.

Is this the best way? If not, what would be the best way to install the chimney in this house for the best performance from the F500? Thanks again for all the help!

 

[begreen]

The maximum elbow offset in class A pipe is 30 degrees. If at all possible, consider an alternative location for the stove, ideally closer to the center of the house.

 

[Therivermonster]

The maximum elbow offset in class A pipe is 30 degrees. If at all possible, consider an alternative location for the stove, ideally closer to the center of the house.

Is this plan simply not doable then? The location described in my original post is the most desirable location for the stove. Are there any other options for routing, or is it better to forget about that location at this point?

 

[webby3650]

Are you dead set on an Oslo? That is way too much stove for your home. You will not be able to enjoy it without sitting on the porch.

 

[Therivermonster]

Are you dead set on an Oslo? That is way too much stove for your home. You will not be able to enjoy it without sitting on the porch.

Thanks, Webby, I have been wondering about this. From the research that I have done, I figured that with our very old, drafty house, the Oslo might be a good fit, but I also don't want to be too hot. Do you think that 400 would be a better fit? I was also under the impression that we could build smaller fires if a full box is too hot. Is this not really the case?

This is all great feedback. Thanks, everyone!

 

[JonOfSunderland]

Are you installing the offsets so you can exit the roof at a higher location and keep as much of the chimney in the house as possible? I would think the offsets would negate the benefits of keep the chimney inside and a straight shot out the lower end of the roof would be preferable.

 

[webby3650]

I had an Oslo in a 1,400 square foot house with good insulation. It was WAY to much! In order to get it to burn cleanly, I had to have the front door open as well as a window so we had a cross breeze. Combine that with dirty glass from having it choked down all the time, it was frustrating!
I would just run that flue straight up. I often paint them all black, it helps a lot if your concerned wih looks.
Will that porch roof be in the way of flashing? Looks to be.

 

[begreen]

Is this plan simply not doable then? The location described in my original post is the most desirable location for the stove. Are there any other options for routing, or is it better to forget about that location at this point?

Sounds like you understand the cons of the currently proposed location. An easier breathing stove may make it work with a 12 ft chimney, but that is not the Castine. A cat stove like the Woodstock Keystone seems like it may be a better fit. In non-cat maybe a PE Alderlea T4?

 

[Therivermonster]

Are you installing the offsets so you can exit the roof at a higher location and keep as much of the chimney in the house as possible? I would think the offsets would negate the benefits of keep the chimney inside and a straight shot out the lower end of the roof would be preferable.

I assumed that the idea behind keeping the chimney inside the house was to keep it warmer than the outside air, but I must be mistaken about this. The offsets would have kept the chimney inside longer so that it would exit almost at the ridge of our little roof, but it sounds like this approach isn't the best idea.

I had an Oslo in a 1,400 square foot house with good insulation. It was WAY to much! In order to get it to burn cleanly, I had to have the front door open as well as a window so we had a cross breeze. Combine that with dirty glass from having it choked down all the time, it was frustrating!
I would just run that flue straight up. I often paint them all black, it helps a lot if your concerned with looks.
Will that porch roof be in the way of flashing? Looks to be.

I'm bummed out that the F500 won't work, but more importantly I want a stove that will work well, so your point is strongly taken. I'll steer clear of the 500 for this house.

Given our just shy of 1000 SF floor plan, how does everyone feel about the F400 for our purposes? We would like to use it as the sole heater of the house as much as possible.

Sounds like you understand the cons of the currently proposed location. An easier breathing stove may make it work with a 12 ft chimney, but that is not the Castine. A cat stove like the Woodstock Keystone seems like it may be a better fit. In non-cat maybe a PE Alderlea T4?

Green, do you suggest the Keystone instead of the Castine because the Castine needs more chimney to draft well? My wife is not a fan of the look of the Woodstock stoves, so that settles that.

Here are a few shots of our living room. The exterior wall that I suggested for the stove in the OP is where the computer is at now. Based on the suggestions in this thread, we are thinking that the next best place to put it is on the wall where the TV is. We would move the computer desk to another room and move the TV there probably.
(broken link removed to http://advblane.smugmug.com/Wood-Stove-Project/i-xMLBMxW/A)

The center of the wall where the stove could go here is about 8' in from the front door, so that would displace the chimney 8' further into the roof. We could probably get pretty close to a straight shot with the chimney pipe through the celling and through the rafters to make it outside. What would be the best way to deal with a rafter getting in the way of a straight shot? How does everyone feel about installing the stove in this location?
(broken link removed to http://advblane.smugmug.com/Wood-Stove-Project/i-qg2k9LV/A)

Thanks for all the help!

 

[begreen]

The TV location is better, but also consider reversing the room layout and putting the couch where the TV is now and the stove on the outside wall if that makes more sense. A more central location will work better aesthetically by reducing the amount of chimney poking out of the roof. And it will keep more pipe in the warmer house envelope.

The Castine likes a minimum of a 16' chimney. It's a beautiful stove, we had one prior to the Alderlea. With the big door and shallow firebox it needs decent draft, especially in our mild climate. Going straight up from the top of the stove will help. It is a serious heater but can be run on partial loads of fuel during milder weather. The next size down (F3CB) would also work, but the burn times will not be as long. Typically they will be 4-6 hrs with our softwoods. With a 1000 sq ft to heat and being in a mild climate you are in a tough position. Another stove to consider is the Vermont Castings Intrepid II. It's a small cat stove sized right for your home and is very good looking.

What is the goal here, 24/7 heating or nights and weekends? How is your wood supply? These stoves really want dry wood and it is late to get wood stocked for the upcoming heating season.

 

[Therivermonster]

"begreen, post: 1743056, member: 5"]The TV location is better, but also consider reversing the room layout and putting the couch where the TV is now and the stove on the outside wall if that makes more sense. A more central location will work better aesthetically by reducing the amount of chimney poking out of the roof. And it will keep more pipe in the warmer house envelope.

There is a corner kitty-corner from the front door that the stove could go on. That location would bring the stove closer to the peak of the roof. It would be a corner installation.

The Castine likes a minimum of a 16' chimney. It's a beautiful stove, we had one prior to the Alderlea. With the big door and shallow firebox it needs decent draft, especially in our mild climate. Going straight up from the top of the stove will help. It is a serious heater but can be run on partial loads of fuel during milder weather. The next size down (F3CB) would also work, but the burn times will not be as long. Typically they will be 4-6 hrs with our softwoods. With a 1000 sq ft to heat and being in a mild climate you are in a tough position. Another stove to consider is the Vermont Castings Intrepid II. It's a small cat stove sized right for your home and is very good looking.

I have only heard bad things about the VC stoves. Are they making a better product now?

What is the goal here, 24/7 heating or nights and weekends? How is your wood supply? These stoves really want dry wood and it is late to get wood stocked for the upcoming heating season.

We'll burn evening and weekends usually. The wood supply is good with most wood measuring around 15% to 17%.

This is most of my one year seasoned wood. Almost all of it reads between 15% and 17%.
(broken link removed to http://advblane.smugmug.com/Trees/i-NDhJd7J/A)

 

[webby3650]

The Blaze King Ashford 20 would be a good one to look at. It's got a decent size box and it will be very controllable!
Stoves that are much smaller than the Castine will be hard to load. All your wood needs to be super short, its frustrating!

 

[Grisu]

The Blaze King Ashford 20 would be a good one to look at. It's got a decent size box and it will be very controllable!

Is BK making a smaller Ashford now? I thought in the 20 line they only have the Sirocco and Chinook. On the other hand, I totally agree with the idea of a small cat stove for the OP. For a non-cat the PE Super or T5 would be an option.

 

[Therivermonster]

The Blaze King Ashford 20 would be a good one to look at. It's got a decent size box and it will be very controllable!
Stoves that are much smaller than the Castine will be hard to load. All your wood needs to be super short, its frustrating!

Most of my wood is between 16" and 22". I would like to install a stove that would work with these log lengths, but I know that's going to be tricky given the size of the stove that we need.

I didn't see an Ashford 20, but the 30 looks nice. Would the 30 be too much firepower? The specs say it will heat between 1100 and 2400 SF which seems like a pretty wide spread to me. Our home is for the most part does not have insulated walls and it is very drafty, especially in the winter.

Is BK making a smaller Ashford now? I thought in the 20 line they only have the Sirocco and Chinook. On the other hand, I totally agree with the idea of a small cat stove for the OP. For a non-cat the PE Super or T5 would be an option.

May I ask why you gents feel a cat stove might be a better fit than a non cat stove? I am completely open to the idea of a cat stove, and would love the long burn times.

 

[Therivermonster]

The Jotul F 3 CB heats up to 1300 SF
(broken link removed to http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/jotul-f-3-cb)

While the F 400 heats up to 1600 SF.
(broken link removed to http://jotul.com/us/products/stoves/jotul-f-400-castine)

When they are figuring these square footage numbers, how energy efficient of a structure are they considering the stove is installed in? I'm thinking this could play a big role in the stove that we choose.

 

[Grisu]

May I ask why you gents feel a cat stove might be a better fit than a non cat stove? I am completely open to the idea of a cat stove, and would love the long burn times.

I think Webby and I are suggesting a cat stove because you are trying to heat a relatively small house in a moderate climate. Secondary burn (non-cat) stoves are designed to run hot in order to burn cleanly. Thus, you cannot really "downregulate" the heat. You cope with that by loading less wood and letting the stove go cold between loads. However, that will mean more work overall. Cat stoves burn already clean and efficient at low settings. You can therefore reduce the air further with a cat stove and you will get a low, steady heat output over a long time. For a small cat stove, the BlazeKing 20 line and the Woodstock Keystone+Palladian would be the best options.

When they are figuring these square footage numbers, how energy efficient of a structure are they considering the stove is installed in? I'm thinking this could play a big role in the stove that we choose.

The sqft numbers given by the stove manufacturers are very subjective and are rarely used here. Instead focus on the firebox size. The bigger the box, the more wood you can fit in and the more heat you will get out. As a rough guideline: one cu ft of average hardwood will give you 100,000 BTU. With other words, a 2 cu ft stove loaded three times a day gives you a total of approx. 600,000 BTU per day. If you know your heating load (i. e. amount of oil/gas/electricity used) from previous winters that will help in sizing the stove correctly.

 

[begreen]

I suggested the Keystone, a cat stove, for a few reasons. It has a smaller firebox and won't overheat the room, cats can generally burn cleaner at a low burn rate, and some cats are comfortable with a bit shorter chimney because they don't need to draw air through a circuitous secondary manifold. The VC Intrepid is a decent small cat design that has a better track record than their downdraft stoves. When BK comes out with the Ashford 20 that is another possibility. The Alderlea T4 non-cat was suggested because the secondary manifold path is fairly direct making it a bit easier breather.

 

[webby3650]

Blaze king stoves are so controllable! I can't stress this enough. Even a King wouldn't overpower the house.
The Ashford 20 is brand new and probably won't show up on their website. The 30 would be fine too. It would hold a bigger log, and have extra fire power if needed. Seriously consider it.

 

[begreen]

1000 sq ft in a mild climate should be easy to heat with the 20. Are they selling it now?

 

[Therivermonster]

Blaze king stoves are so controllable! I can't stress this enough. Even a King wouldn't overpower the house.
The Ashford 20 is brand new and probably won't show up on their website. The 30 would be fine too. It would hold a bigger log, and have extra fire power if needed. Seriously consider it.

After researching the Ashford a little bit, you've got me hooked, webby. It looks like a great stove, and gets nothing but praises for its ease of use and controllability. After discussing the aspects with the stove, and showing her a few pics, she has given her approval which brings the Ashford to the top spot at this time.

1000 sq ft in a mild climate should be easy to heat with the 20. Are they selling it now?

I can't find any info on the Ashford 20 on the BK website, or by Googling it. Does anyone have any info on this stove. Every once in a blue moon it does get quite cold here in the South Puget Sound, so it would be nice to have the extra heating capacity of the 30 over the 20. I see that the BK Sirocco 20 is designed to heat between 900 - 1600 SF, so I'm assuming that the Ashford 20 will perform similarly. Our house is very drafty and poorly insulated, and we have space in the attic that may be built out at some point in the future that we would like to heat with the stove as well, so it seems that the 30 might be the better fit. Which do you all feel would be the better fit? The Ashford 20 or 30.

Thank you all for the help so far. The information really is invaluable.

 

[begreen]

You will still have plenty of extra capacity with a 2 cu ft stove in a 1000 sq ft house in this region. Our next door neighbor is heating a 1600 sq ft 1924 farmhouse with no insulation with a PE Spectrum for the past decade. It has never been too cold for the stove to keep up. Call BK on Monday and ask if they are now shipping the Ashford 20. And look at the Alderlea T5 for a non-cat comparison.

This summer, go around to all exterior doors and windows and fill the gaps around them with low expansion foam per directions. Let it set up, then shave flush with the wall, then put up some trim. That will help a great deal with the air leaks.

 

[Therivermonster]

You will still have plenty of extra capacity with a 2 cu ft stove in a 1000 sq ft house in this region. Our next door neighbor is heating a 1600 sq ft 1924 farmhouse with no insulation with a PE Spectrum for the past decade. It has never been too cold for the stove to keep up. Call BK on Monday and ask if they are now shipping the Ashford 20. And look at the Alderlea T5 for a non-cat comparison.

This summer, go around to all exterior doors and windows and fill the gaps around them with low expansion foam per directions. Let it set up, then shave flush with the wall, then put up some trim. That will help a great deal with the air leaks.

I'll call BK about the Ashford 20. Thanks for the advice. If I may ask, considering the Ashford vs the T5, would you reccommend one over the other?

Regarding the gaps in the doors and windows; we renovated this home before we moved in last September. A lot of the doors are new, so I'm assuming the gaps that you are refeering too are the ones around the doors. They have been foamed and sealed properly, they are just missing the trim right now, (lots of work to do with the renovation still). The windows are all old single pain aluminum framed jobs that need to be replaced soon, but thats another story.

 

[begreen]

Both are good stoves with different strengths. The BK Ashford 20 is a new model, but they have been making the similar Sirocco 20 for a little while now and folks like them. I saw one in early spring and liked the fit and finish of the Ashfords. I also like the latch assembly better on the Ashford. BK is a good company out of Walla Walla. They have good support. The downside is one must be more careful with the cat, but BK has a good warranty on it. The Alderlea T5 is also a beautiful stove, especially when finished in enamel. It has a nice square firebox and an excellent baffle/secondary system that comes out easily with just the removal of a pin. It's linked secondary air control works well at extending the burn. The swing away trivet top is unique to the Alderlea series and handy for quickly exposing the stove top for cooking. A side benefit is when the trivet is off to the side its great for raising bread and for drying out wet mittens or socks.

Either stove would work well in this situation. The BK would have an advantage in mild weather burning because it can be run low and slow. And it has a thermostatic damper. When it's cold outside and the stoves are being pushed harder, the difference becomes much smaller. Ask what the Ashford 20 retails for while you have them on the phone. I suspect the BK will cost more, it is a premium stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

I love my Oslo . . . but I am happy to hear you are reconsidering this purchase . . . the Oslo would be way, way, way too much stove for this house.

 

[Therivermonster]

I love my Oslo . . . but I am happy to hear you are reconsidering this purchase . . . the Oslo would be way, way, way too much stove for this house.

Thanks for the tip. I certainly don't want an over heated house all the time. That's just as bad as too cold. I'm pretty sure we'll go with a medium cat stove at this point.