Jotul Firelight Install Questions

[LelandJF]

I had previously started a thread about replacing my non-airtight stove with a Napoleon insert. I nixed that idea after seeing the firebox on the insert and realizing that I would have to cut most of my wood in half to load it.

My wife fell in love with the “white” Jotul Fireview and we were told it was discontinued, so we moved our new stove purchase up a few months and brought it home last weekend.

Current Setup:
In my previous thread I described my flue as a 12x12 clay pipe that ALREADY has an 8” sleeve running down it for my current stove. It is a straight shot from the top of the flue down into the stove. At the TOP of the flue, there is some type of material that fills in the void between the 8” liner and the terracotta, but I am not sure what the material is (From my seasonal sweeping, it seems to be a hard substance like concrete, but I never paid attention. I will investigate further this afternoon and post a picture.)
The flue is approximately 12ft from the top of the stove to the top of the chimney. It is an external brick chimney. There is currently a block off plate installed in the alcove which prevents me from getting a visual looking up into the flue.

Materials:
I already own enough un-insulated 6” stainless flex pipe to run through the 8” liner. I have a black pipe tee to connect to the rear exit of the stove and allow the stove to be moved out of the alcove due to clearance issues. I think it can be done using my current hearth setup, but I can extend the hearth to maintain the 18” in front if needed.

-I do not want to make the current setup inoperable through dismantling and inspection until I knew how to handle most of the situations that may arise, so my concerns are…

Short flue, tee (immediately connects to stove… no extension), and don’t think I am going to run insulation because the insulation on the flex pipe will snag on the screws that hold the 8” liner together every 36 or 48 inches. Worried it would make for an impossible job. Should I expect problems with draft?

I was very happy with what I thought was going to be a very straight forward install, but I am concerned about using the flex pipe without insulation based on the very frequent recommendations promoting insulated liners.
Any thoughts on how to proceed?

 

[DAKSY]

You are probably going to have problems with draft. The Fireview has a minimum chimney height of 14 feet.
Yours is 12 feet tall & the 90 degree elbow will shorten it even further. You will need to add Class A to the top of it.
Probably about 6 feet.

 

[LelandJF]

Makes sense, spent so much time looking at the hearth dimensions, I never noticed the chimney length.

Now I need to see how the 8" liner is installed so I can remove it since the class A 6" has more than an 8" outside diameter and won't fit in the current setup, right?

Any alternatives?

 

[bholler]

I think if the 8" is insulated you would probably be ok just packing insulation top and bottom. But what would concern me is what type of liner do you have if it is light wall i would worry about it getting torn on those screws i have seen them tear from allot less. you could also always pour insulation between the 2. And what dansky said to

 

[bholler]

Now I need to see how the 8" liner is installed so I can remove it since the class A 6" has more than an 8" outside diameter and won't fit in the current setup, right?

No you run your 6" liner and add class a to the top with an adapter and mounting plate

 

[LelandJF]

Reread the post, gotcha, thanks.

I don't know that the current 8" setup is insulated. Does the poured in stuff resemble cement? From cleaning out around the 8" liner up top, I know the material is hard. I am not famiar with older liner installs and didn't know if it was common practice for the top few inches (or all the way down!) the rigid pipe to be cemented or if it is the poured in insulation (which I am unfamiliar with, but I doubt that it is insulation of any type).

So, right now, add class A to the top of chimney, which will make cleaning difficult since chimney already extends past roof peak. I guess I'd remove extension or get a bucket truck to clean it.

Or install liner and pour in insulation with no extension?

Is running a smaller OD than class A, but still insulated 6" rigid or flex pipe from top to bottom an option to prevent extension or does the chimney NEED to be lenghtened?

I will measure chimney length, but I use three extensions on the brush to get from top to bottom... figured that was 12'

 

[bholler]

I am saying install liner and a class a extension check the length if your rods are 5' you should be ok. but with screws poking out i would either do heavy wall or rigid and then pour insulation in or just pull the old rigid and install all new

 

[LelandJF]

Pulled out the ladder and did some inspecting...

The 8" liner is smooth from top to bottom with one seam running vertical, so no snags on screws if I go with the insulated flex liner.

Plan isa 12' triple or double wall (current liner removed) or high quality insulated flex liner in my current liner and put an anchor plate then a 3' class A on top of both options.

Do the liners inside the chimney connect directly to the bottom of the anchor plate and then the class A connects directly on top or are there more pieces required at that junction?

 

[LelandJF]

For the best draft, my plan is to use remove the current 8" liner and use 6" rigid insulated pipe.

I have 12' of 12x12 tile chimney. My plan is to line 11' of the chimney with whatever insulated rigid pipe is suggested starting at the tee which will be connected to the rear vent of the stove by 12" or less of pipe. One foot from the top of the chimney, I will be connecting a 4' piece of class A to get me to 15' total insulated flue pipe. The 1' of class A that will still be within the masonry chimney will be seal off at the top of the clay liner and will help support the 3' sticking out of the clay liner.

I chose this way because my short flue will be insulated from top to bottom and have a smoother wall vs flex pipe.

Would I need class A from top to bottom or could I use something else inside the chimney and only use the class A for the top part?

 

[bholler]

You need to listen to us when we tell you what to do you do not want class a in the chimney it probably wont fit and is not approved for it. You want to run a liner from the tee to the top of the chimney where it will attach to the bottom of trhe anchor plate then class a on top of that. Insulate the liner i personally never use rigid anymore it is a real pain we use heavy wall flex which is smooth wall also but rigid is fine if you want to deal with it

 

[claydogg84]

You need to listen to us when we tell you what to do you do not want class a in the chimney it probably wont fit and is not approved for it. You want to run a liner from the tee to the top of the chimney where it will attach to the bottom of trhe anchor plate then class a on top of that. Insulate the liner i personally never use rigid anymore it is a real pain we use heavy wall flex which is smooth wall also but rigid is fine if you want to deal with it

I agree. SS 6" liner from bottom Tee to top plate. You will mount your class A triple or double wall to the plate. I would also insulate, but that's your call.

 

[LelandJF]

My chimney crown is watertight after sealing the cracks, but is not structurally sound. I don't trust it to support a 3' extension, I was trying to avoid concrete work in Nov/Dec especially in this cold snap and wait to redo it in the spring. I was misunderstanding and trying to make your ideas (class A extension) work for my setup, not being obstinate.

I will be using a heavy wall flex. This says heavy wall, good? Something better?
Fireflex Premier 304 - says its .016

Are the anchor plates universal fit for the flex pipe and brand specific for the class A?

Thanks

 

[claydogg84]

Your best bet is to call whichever company you've decided to purchase from and tell them what your situation is. You can also get rooftop anchors for the class a pipe so it wouldn't only be supported by the liner plate, although the top of your chimney needs to be in good enough shape to attach the anchor plate to.

 

[bholler]

that liner looks like all the heavy wall i have used never used that one but looks good so like claydog said insulate the liner mount it to the top anchor plate and especially if your crown is bad add extra support either with cables or support bracket. Once the crown is solid you could loose the support if it is only 3'

 

[LelandJF]

Thanks guys. Got it.

 

[LelandJF]

Another question...

I have been contacting online suppliers to purchase the anchor plate.

Two techs from one place told me that the anchor plate is not made to connect to the exterior of the chimney to extend it with class A. "I have never heard anyone trying to do what you are doing. If there is a fire and you install it incorrectly, it will be your fault. "

They said it is for connecting directly to the top of a firebox in a fireplace.

So, they got me scared.

This is the plate that I was looking at:
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/DuraTech-Chimney-System-Parts/6-inch-DuraTech-Anchor-Plate

One of the tech's told me to run with the 12' of chimney and no need for an extension, so I already doubt them. Did I pick the wrong part?