Jotul Gas Stove Modification

[Fire Bug]

If anyone has a Jotul Gas fired stove,(especially the Firelight 600 II DV), and you are getting a "Blow Torch" noise when the stove is ignited and continues while in operation, they have modification to correct this problem.
Contact Jotul North America for assistance. Most dealers, including mine, did not no of the modification until I contacted Jotul describing the problem.
No Technical Service Bulletins were sent out to the dealers according to my service/sales dealer describing the problem.
DO NOT continue to use the stove in this for any extended periods of time if this condition exists with your stove. Further damage to your stove will occur with prolonged operation of the stove.

John

 

[elkimmeg]

John what is exactly your dealers involvement. What has he done has made a trip out to see the conditions view the symptom?. If he has contacted Jotul or distributor, then who and when how often. I know You have had problems grin and fill me in I may have missed the total picture. While doing so It is hoped others take notice. I not offering help here. but trying to understand what's going on. Also time frame from purchase till the last time your dealer spoke to you? Finally your app. location.

 

[jjbaer]

If anyone has a Jotul Gas fired stove,(especially the Firelight 600 II DV), and you are getting a "Blow Torch" noise when the stove is ignited and continues while in operation, they have modification to correct this problem.
Contact Jotul North America for assistance. Most dealers, including mine, did not no of the modification until I contacted Jotul describing the problem.
No Technical Service Bulletins were sent out to the dealers according to my service/sales dealer describing the problem.
DO NOT continue to use the stove in this for any extended periods of time if this condition exists with your stove. Further damage to your stove will occur with prolonged operation of the stove.

John

Good...this will help definitely help others.

 

[Fire Bug]

John what is exactly your dealers involvement. What has he done has made a trip out to see the conditions view the symptom?. If he has contacted Jotul or distributor, then who and when how often. I know You have had problems grin and fill me in I may have missed the total picture. While doing so It is hoped others take notice. I not offering help here. but trying to understand what's going on. Also time frame from purchase till the last time your dealer spoke to you? Finally your app. location.

Hi Elk,
Once again, as I stated in my previous thread concerning my stove problem I really did not have that much of an issue with my dealer as with Jotul.
Apparently, as I have also stated, the dealer claimed they never received a TSB on this problem. This is what the dealer said to me.
I called Jotul directly, as noted previously, was informed by thier engineer that they had a problem as I had described to them with my stove and my dealers technician would have to contact Jotul's Techs. to be informed on the problem and the solution to it.
I also contacted the The Consumer Product Safety Commission to file a possible safety report. She in turn, came to my house the next day,(4/5/07), from Chambersburg, Pa. and took several pictures of the unit, serial number, date of mfg., etc.. She also heard the way the stove was lighting and told me not to use it, as did Jotul's Engineer. She interviewed me for further info. and took my owners manual to copy for further follow up.
After stopping by my home she visited the dealer,Tall Pines Farm Inc.(about 35 miles away), and spoke with them.
The next day,(Friday,4/6/07), the dealers technician,(Steve Wilson),called me at 9 AM to say he had recieved the parts from Jotul and would like to come to my house ,(Saturday,4/7/07), to install them and try to solve the problem. He promtly arrived at my house,(Saturday,4/7/07), installed the parts and so far so good. He also installed a different Snap Switch for the blower that would let run longer,(by temp.) instead of the original that would only run for a minute and cycle on and off. The new one circulates the heat, much, much, more efficently.
The dealers tech called the following (Monday), at 9AM, to see how things were with the stove and I told him so far, so good. I wanted to wait till the weather to warm up a bit because thats when this noise was more prevelent. He said let him know how it works out and they will do anything to correct my problem and have me as a sastisfied customer.
I recieved a call on Tuesday,(4/10/07), from Jotul's Technicians Supervsor asking how the stove was operating. I told him so far, so good. Only time will tell.
I told him I recieved much valuable info. from this site, especially from, MT. StoveGuy, concerning the exhaust or vent restrictor of my stove and its functon and correct adjustment.
He told me in the future if I have any questions about the stove to contact him, (Jotul Tech. Supervisor or MGR.), and not to listen to the advice given to me by this website. He I could be talking to a 14 year old kid. I disagreed with his advice, but I found it very ironic that he would make such a statement to me when the company he earns his living from is a "Gold Sponser" of this site.
Basically, after contacting the CPSC, my stove was fixed,(so far, so good), in less than three days.
My sincere gratitude to Tall Pines Farms INC., DealerTechnician-Steve Wilson, and a very, very,special thanks to Laura A. LoveLace,(CPSC Field Investigator)!!
I feel Jotul should keep their dealers better informed through TSB's if they are running into problems with their stove and possible corrections to rectify these problems.
I hope my stove continues to operate in a safe, quiet,useable, manner.

John

 

[webbie]

Advice on this site can come from anyone - perhaps an informed Jotul dealer, and perhaps an uninformed one - or perhaps a clueless "civilian". I have to agree to Jotuls advice to you when gas is concerned and when a product is new and under warranty. People here are guessing, and gas is far different from wood. In this case, the folks who know the most about your problem are you (cause you see it), and them.

I'm not under-rating the good that many here have done for a lot of stove problems, but I do feel that long distance trouble shooting is FAR more effective with wood and even pellet than it is for gas.

Glad the machine is working now! Looks like you have a chance to use it for a few more weeks...at least here and there.

 

[seattlepioneer]

The description of the problem sounds like "flashback." When a gas burner is operating properly, the gas comes out the burner ports and burns on the surface of the burner. If the velocity of the gas through the burner is too slow, the gas burns back into the burner and you get the kind of "whooshing" noise that has been described.


Of course, it could be something else.



Seattle Pioneer

 

[Fire Bug]

The description of the problem sounds like "flashback." When a gas burner is operating properly, the gas comes out the burner ports and burns on the surface of the burner. If the velocity of the gas through the burner is too slow, the gas burns back into the burner and you get the kind of "whooshing" noise that has been described.


Of course, it could be something else.



Seattle Pioneer

Hi Seattle,
The "flashback" noise you are describing, does it only occur when the unit shuts off or is it a constant noise?
The problem my stove had, was the noise was a constant "blowtorch"type noise at first occassionally and than constantly.
I believe someone on this site describe a noise such as your "flashback" only they called it "back burn".
I was told by the Jotul Gas Engineer that the noise created by my stove was caused by the gases burning constantly inside the burner and burner tube instead of on the outside like you stated. He said this creates "super heated" air that would destroy the metals used in the burner, burner tube, and burner gasket.
Both my fireplace insert and stove make a slight "thud or boom" noise when the units are shut down. I was told by several people this is normal with propane fired units.

Thanks,
John

 

[seattlepioneer]

The description of the problem sounds like "flashback." When a gas burner is operating properly, the gas comes out the burner ports and burns on the surface of the burner. If the velocity of the gas through the burner is too slow, the gas burns back into the burner and you get the kind of "whooshing" noise that has been described.


Of course, it could be something else.



Seattle Pioneer

Hi Seattle,
The "flashback" noise you are describing, does it only occur when the unit shuts off or is it a constant noise?
The problem my stove had, was the noise was a constant "blowtorch"type noise at first occassionally and than constantly.
I believe someone on this site describe a noise such as your "flashback" only they called it "back burn".
I was told by the Jotul Gas Engineer that the noise created by my stove was caused by the gases burning constantly inside the burner and burner tube instead of on the outside like you stated. He said this creates "super heated" air that would destroy the metals used in the burner, burner tube, and burner gasket.
Both my fireplace insert and stove make a slight "thud or boom" noise when the units are shut down. I was told by several people this is normal with propane fired units.

Thanks,
John

The flashback noise you describe can occur anytime the main burner is lit or trying to light. Yes, I suppose that could damage the burner as the engineer described if it were left in that condition long enough, but people usually shut things off when they hear that.


The noise when the burner shuts off is probably what is called "extinction pop." It's pretty much the same thing as flashback, except it only occurs when the burner is shutting off. Again, normally the velocity of the gas coming through the burner is faster than the speed the gas can burn, so the gas burns outside the burner. But when the burner is turned off, that gas velocity slows down to zero as the burner shuts off, and if it shuts off slowly enough the gas will ignite down into the burner and burn up the remaining gas inside the burner, causing the "pop."

There ought to be a combination of gas input and primary air input that will cause the extiction pop to go away, but I've never seen it do any damage.



Seattle Pioneer

 

[Fire Bug]

Hi Seattle,
I have heard several dealers call the shut off noise "Pop", basically every dealer I talked to said this is not unusuale with propane units.
Thanks for giveing me the correct name,"Extinction Pop".
Thanks,
John

 

[Gooserider]

I occasionally get that "blowtorch" noise with my propane powered burner for my turkey frying setup, and agree that it is definitely a "backburn" - my burner is essentially a jumbo stove burner in a frame, with an exposed mixer inlet, and when it starts doing that noise you can look into the mixer inlet and see the flames. My burner has an adjustment plate on the mixer, but the manual suggested just leaving it wide open, and that seems to work pretty well for me. It is crude technology in a way, but it cranks the BTU's which is what I need... Take 4 gallons of oil from room temp to 350 in about 20 minutes, then do a turkey in about an hour :coolgrin:

It doesn't seem to be a big problem on my burner though, and it generally self-corrects in a few seconds, or if I play with the regulator flame setting. I also usually get that "extinction pop" noise when the burner shuts down as well...

BTW, I'd somewhat agree with the Jotul guy's advice about listening to the advice you get on the boards, here or any other one... Once you've been on the forums for a while people pretty much make their qualifications known, but it takes a while to get a feel for that, and sometimes it can fool you - best example here is that Elk's typing sometimes makes him look less competent than he really is, it took me a couple weeks to figure out why he got so much respect... Until you gain that feel for who the "experts" are, it can be hard to tell them from the 14 year olds...

Gooserider

 

[Fire Bug]

Hi Goose,
My "Blow Torch" noise never went away after it started on my Jotul Propane Stove. When the stove ignited, it was there and it was constant.
I am glad to see I am not alone with the "Extinction Pop" noise. It seems everyone that I talked to that has propane has the "Pop".
I agree 110%, Elk's typing and spelling are definitely "different". "Spell Check" will make anyone look good if it is utilized. Its amazing how bad you can get when your out of school a while and and you don't write or type much.
Be careful with that "Turkey Fryer", there was a piece on 20/20 a couple of years ago about how dangerous they could be.
Thanks,
John

 

[elkimmeg]

Did anyone think there maybe a method to my maddness? I promise to use spell checker a bit more.

 

[jtp10181]

Elk, get the Google toolbar, it will spell check your typing right in the forum reply box. I love it.

 

[Gooserider]

Hi Goose,
My "Blow Torch" noise never went away after it started on my Jotul Propane Stove. When the stove ignited, it was there and it was constant.

No argument on that, I didn't see it, but I'll take your word for it. I was just commenting on my experience to say that I had visual confirmation that it really was burning back inside the burner...

I am glad to see I am not alone with the "Extinction Pop" noise. It seems everyone that I talked to that has propane has the "Pop".

I think it kind of goes with the nature of the device... You get the same sort of pop with an Oxyacetyline torch, and I' ve even had some of those "windproof" lighters that make a blowtorch style flame give a tiny pop when they go out. I figure as long as you have a "pop" and not a "bang" it's not a big issue. (Definition - pop = a kind of noise; bang = things getting violently relocated.... :bug: )

I agree 110%, Elk's typing and spelling are definitely "different". "Spell Check" will make anyone look good if it is utilized. Its amazing how bad you can get when your out of school a while and and you don't write or type much.

I don't use the spell checker much, but my spelling is usually pretty decent (but by no means perfect). I have tried it, and found it works but is a bit of a PITA... The other problem with spell checkers is they don't catch grammar problems or the infamous "wrong word" sorts of errors... I work as a substitute teacher and occasionally get kids assignments, the ones they used a spell checker on are really obvious - the spelling is perfect, but the words are strange... Actually I saw a post Elk made at one point where he said his typing issues were at least in part due to cumulative damage from many years of tool use of one sort and another. I can see that as I know I find it's a bit harder to type accurately when I come in after an afternoon of splitting wood or waving the chainsaw around....

Be careful with that "Turkey Fryer", there was a piece on 20/20 a couple of years ago about how dangerous they could be.
Thanks,
John

I would rate the turkey fryer as about as safe as a wood stove, far safer than a chain saw... each can hurt you badly if you are stupid, but all will do the job they were designed to do quite safely if you use them in the way they were intended and designed... Of course that isn't very sensational, so they certainly won't tell you that millions of people have fried turkeys in total safety, with no problems on a regular basis...

So what does "not being stupid" consist of when using a turkey fryer? Any "hidden secrets"? Not really. The key stuff is all pretty obvious....
1. It is an OUTDOOR activity, just like your BBQ... If it's raining you can go under a porch or into the opening of your garage, but don't do it in the living room, or even the kitchen.
2. You are dealing with a large pot of very hot oil - use a thermometer, don't test to see if its hot by sticking your finger in it!
3. You are dealing with a large pot of very hot oil - make sure your burner is on a solid surface, and that the pot is positioned on it in a stable manner
4. You are dealing with a large pot of very hot oil - dress appropriately - sneakers, not sandals or bare feet. Use hot gloves, wear an apron, long sleeves are reccomended, so are glasses.
5. You are dealing with a large pot of very hot oil - keep the little kids away from it! keep large amounts of water away from it.
6. You are dealing with a large pot of very hot oil - use the appropriate size turkey, with the proper handling gear, don't try to do an oversize bird, and learn how to calculate the correct amount of oil
7. Oil can be flammable - Turn the burner OFF when putting a bird in or taking it out
8. Oil can be flammable - Use the right kind of oil - peanut oil is stable at higher temperatures and is less willing to burn. Most other vegetable oils are not - this is WHY all the instructions say to use peanut oil.
9. The burner has no thermostat - don't leave the burner unattended while heating oil or cooking, and monitor the temperature closely - too hot and you do risk burning things, too cold and the bird won't cook properly

I don't think there is anything in that list which is "arcane" or not common sense type stuff... Most of it applies to some extent to any sort of cooking...

Gooserider

 

[Fire Bug]

Hey Goose,
I never had fried turkey but I am sure it is very delicious,(Makes me hungry)!

John

 

[Gooserider]

Hey Goose,
I never had fried turkey but I am sure it is very delicious,(Makes me hungry)!

John

Bottom line is once you've fried a turkey, you'll never want to put one in the oven again... I inject the bird with spicy marinade first, and then fry it, the result is moist and juicy, not like the dry stuff you get with oven birds, plus it takes MUCH less time - An oven turkey takes hours, a fried turkey takes on the order of 45 minutes to an hour, plus about 20 minutes to heat the oil. It takes a while for the oil to cool back down, but that usually isn't a big deal - it's cool by the time the feasting is over... It is an impressive thing to watch too.

One of the big surprises is that the bird is NOT greasy, which many people expect... However when I finish cooking and the oil has cooled, I transfer it back to the jug, and I typically get all but a cup or two back. Most of the losses I attribute to spillage, drips from when I take the turkey out of the pot, etc... It isn't in the bird for sure - the initial plunge sears the surface and seals the moisture in and the fat out.

The downsides are you can't do stuffing in a fried turkey (but you can still do stove-top or equivalent) and the size is somewhat limited by the pot - My pot won't let me do more than about a 14 pound bird.

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

Maybe this is better taken to the ash can for more turkey talk?

 

[Fire Bug]

Yumm, Yumm! I'm headed for the fridge
Thanks,
John