Just moved and looking to switch from pellet to wood

[Ashful]

I know I am a newbie to wood stoves, but wouldn't a top load be counter productive? smoke etc?

Nope. Top load opening is maybe only 2x chimney cross-section, and all smoke is pulled up chimney when top load door is open. Only time I'd ever get smoke out my top load doors is if I opened the door while a fresh load was just getting started.

 

[chanlon1974]

The steel fire box sounds like a nice feature. Won't warp over time

 

[chanlon1974]

Owner of three older Jotul Firelights, here. What Jotul lacks in performance, they make up for in build quality.

Pros: Very heavy and well designed castings, fit, finish, quality. Nicest looking stoves on the market, IMO.

Cons: No customer tech support. You have to go thru your dealer, and many are not knowledgeable. Relatively unimpressive burn times. Parts not stocked in the US must come by boat from Norway, so a cracked casting or odd-ball part can mean losing two months of your burn season.

Thanks for the reply! What burn times are you experiencing?

 

[Ashful]

Can't really make any parallels between my catalytic Firelight 12's and anything Jotul makes today, so I was more referring to folks posting here with 10 hours burn times from modern 3.0 cubic foot Firelight 600's. Meanwhile, Woodstock and Blaze King are easily doing double and triple those burn times, per cubic foot.

 

[begreen]

There is a big difference between the low fire burn times for a BK or Woodstock and the normal cold weather high temp burn times in these stoves. The more the stove is pushed the closer the burn times get to non-cats. There are only so many btus in a load of wood. In a big house one may need to run at high levels continuously.

 

[chanlon1974]

Can't really make any parallels between my catalytic Firelight 12's and anything Jotul makes today, so I was more referring to folks posting here with 10 hours burn times from modern 3.0 cubic foot Firelight 600's. Meanwhile, Woodstock and Blaze King are easily doing double and triple those burn times, per cubic foot.

Oh I got ya. So your making more of a case for cat stoves. Its interesting to see the different sides of the cat vs non cat stove discussion

 

[Ashful]

There is a big difference between the low fire burn times for a BK or Woodstock and the normal cold weather high temp burn times in these stoves. The more the stove is pushed the closer the burn times get to non-cats. There are only so many btus in a load of wood. In a big house one may need to run at high levels continuously.

True! Was just stating the facts, not making any assumption of how the user might be running it. For me, the ability to run 24+ hour burn times was a major factor in the purchase decision. But I wonder how many need to run their stoves much above the lowest setting for the majority of the heating season?

Oh I got ya. So your making more of a case for cat stoves. Its interesting to see the different sides of the cat vs non cat stove discussion

I've watched several members come here, learn the advantages of catalytic stoves, and make the switch from non-cat to catalytic (mostly BK or Woodstock). Not many have tried a modern cat stove and then gone non-cat.

Primary reasons for going non-cat are local dealer availability and support, and a wider range of stove configurations and cosmetics, which are all valid factors in the decision. If your primary interest is performance, measured by efficiency and burn times, then cat always wins.

 

[Grisu]

Primary reasons for going non-cat are local dealer availability and support, and a wider range of stove configurations and cosmetics, which are all valid factors in the decision.

You forgot price and a smaller difference in performance when a large space needs to be heated. In addition, very few good(-looking) cat inserts out there.

 

[chanlon1974]

I spoke to one dealer today and its funny how if they don't sell it then it must be garbage right? Ha! One dealer I asked his opinion on cat stoves and he said those things are obsolete and doesn't know anyone selling them. He said they have to be cleaned constantly and its a pain to replace them

 

[begreen]

In addition, very few good(-looking) cat inserts out there.

What great looking cat inserts are there out there?

 

[Grisu]

What great looking cat inserts are there out there?

Got me. I wanted to put "= 0" behind my post but thought I should be a bit more diplomatic for some people who like a Princess or Buck. The Kuma Sequoia is not that bad looking but certainly not in the same league as a BK in its performance.

 

[chanlon1974]

Well I found a dealer about 30 min from me that carries the quadrafire. Gonna go check it out tomorrow.

 

[BKVP]

There is a big difference between the low fire burn times for a BK or Woodstock and the normal cold weather high temp burn times in these stoves. The more the stove is pushed the closer the burn times get to non-cats. There are only so many btus in a load of wood. In a big house one may need to run at high levels continuously.

Yes if you compare a normal, manually air controlled catalytic wood stove to a manually controlled non catalyst equipped wood stove, Begreen your statement is correct....each time you make it. However, the burn times on high of a thermostatically controlled stove still greatly exceed those of any stove, regardless if it is cat or non cat that in manually controlled. Until you run a thermostatically controlled unit, that meters out heat, it is hard to appreciate. Keep this in mind when making the comparison.

 

[firefighterjake]

Well I just back from a local stove dealer. We discussed my situation and he recommended the Jotul 500 or 600 depending on my budget. Non cat stove. He wasn't a fan of the cat stoves it sounded like. Any experiences with Jotul 500 that anyone can share?

Stove dealers that aren't fans of cat stoves are often not fans because a) they don't sell cat stoves in their store, b) they had problems with the early version of cat stoves when they were in their infancy or c) they have had issues with cat stoves because of customers not running their stove right (i.e. needing dry wood, replacing the cat when needed, etc.)

I would not have an issue going with a cat or secondary burner myself.

That said, since you asked, I have an Jotul Oslo and love it. The only stove that really made me think long and hard about changing it out was the Progress Hybrid, but honestly the Oslo has done everything I've asked from it . . . namely being that it provide 24/7 heat for me from September to May . . . and it's done so without replacing a single part or gasket since 2008.

Only thing I wished I had done was splurge and go with the blue black finish.

Negatives: The air control sticks, but this can be fixed easily with a liberal application of graphite powder or using an ash vacuum frequently on the front ash lip. Other negative is the front door isn't very useful for loading as ash and coals tend to spill out when used, but the side door works well. I typically only open the front door for cleaning off the glass.

Pro: I love the very functional ash pan . . . and it still baffles my mind when I read about folks who don't use it as this is truly a fantastic feature as it works and works extremely well.

 

[chanlon1974]

Thanks for all the replies so far. Ive learned quite a bit over the last few days. So correct me if I'm wrong on what I've learned. Cat vs non cat stoves. Since I have a large area to heat, I'm going to be running my stove at higher temps therefore negating the difference between a cat and non cat stove. The cat stove would serve me better during the shoulder burning times since I can run it lower and for longer periods of time? the soapstone slow radiant heat benefit that one dealer pushed (hearthstone manchester) wont really make a difference because the cast of the jotul or quadrafire will also radiate heat slowly as the fire dies down just the same? Have any of you guys done the install yourself?

 

[Grisu]

Cat vs non cat stoves. Since I have a large area to heat, I'm going to be running my stove at higher temps therefore negating the difference between a cat and non cat stove.

In essence, yes. Negating may be a bit strong but the difference will certainly be less pronounced. However, one difference that will remain is that the cat stove will give you a more even heat ouput. Secondary burn stoves (Jotul, Quadrafire etc.) give of most of their heat in the first few hours and then it slowly tapers out. A cat stove will maintain the same heat for a longer time.

The cat stove would serve me better during the shoulder burning times since I can run it lower and for longer periods of time?

Correct.

the soapstone slow radiant heat benefit that one dealer pushed (hearthstone manchester) wont really make a difference because the cast of the jotul or quadrafire will also radiate heat slowly as the fire dies down just the same?

Maybe not the same but the question will be if you will really notice the difference. Plus, in your particular case the brick from the fireplace will soak up some of the heat and slowly release it long after the stove is out. You may not see as much of a benefit with the soapstone than others.

Have any of you guys done the install yourself?

No, but I know that quite a few members here have done it. What are the inner dimensions of the chimney flue and is it straight shot up? If those are ok and you don't mind climbing on the roof I think you will be able to do it.

 

[chanlon1974]

It is a straight shot up roughly 20 ft. The inner dimensions are toughly 12"x18"

 

[chanlon1974]

Alright, so I just got back from yet another stove dealer. This one sells quadrafire and Jotul so I was interested in seeing the stoves next to each other. I was excited to see the explorer 3 but ofcourse he didn't have one yet on the floor. He said it doesn't matter anyhow cuz its only top venting which I can't use. So I began to question him on stoves, cat vs non. Like the other dealers didn't seem to be a cat fan. Said the technology is a bit "antiquated". I said from what Ive read its come along way. He said some people like em some don't. Anyway, something interesting, he had a Vermont Casting Defiant model stove on the floor that uses "flex burn" technology. I guess its a hybrid non cat/cat system. Very nice looking stove. He recommended for my application the Jotul 500 for the reason he said bigger isnt always better and he was concerned the larger stove might be unbearable to sit in the room next to. Since I am not looking to heat the house solely with the stove the 500 would be a good choice. I attached a pic of the Vermont Casting for you guys to see

 

[Ashful]

Alright, so I just got back from yet another stove dealer. This one sells quadrafire and Jotul so I was interested in seeing the stoves next to each other. I was excited to see the explorer 3 but ofcourse he didn't have one yet on the floor. He said it doesn't matter anyhow cuz its only top venting which I can't use. So I began to question him on stoves, cat vs non. Like the other dealers didn't seem to be a cat fan. Said the technology is a bit "antiquated". I said from what Ive read its come along way. He said some people like em some don't. Anyway, something interesting, he had a Vermont Casting Defiant model stove on the floor that uses "flex burn" technology. I guess its a hybrid non cat/cat system. Very nice looking stove. He recommended for my application the Jotul 500 for the reason he said bigger isnt always better and he was concerned the larger stove might be unbearable to sit in the room next to. Since I am not looking to heat the house solely with the stove the 500 would be a good choice. I attached a pic of the Vermont Casting for you guys to see

Avoid VC. Beautiful looking stoves, but a horrendous record of quality and customer support, in recent years.

Jake's comments hit the nail on the head, with regard to cat stoves. Catalytic technology was what stove manufacturers turned to 25 years ago, when they needed to meet the new EPA mandates on emissions. Most didn't really understand the science, and many tried retrofitting secondary catalytic reburn systems into existing stove designs, which just didn't work very well. This left a bad taste in the mouth of many, with regard to catalytic technology.

On a related note, Mars company dropped red M&M's from the line in the late 1970's when the red dye no.2 was banned, even though Mars never used red dye no.2. Perception is everything.

 

[JA600L]

Alright, so I just got back from yet another stove dealer. This one sells quadrafire and Jotul so I was interested in seeing the stoves next to each other. I was excited to see the explorer 3 but ofcourse he didn't have one yet on the floor. He said it doesn't matter anyhow cuz its only top venting which I can't use. So I began to question him on stoves, cat vs non. Like the other dealers didn't seem to be a cat fan. Said the technology is a bit "antiquated". I said from what Ive read its come along way. He said some people like em some don't. Anyway, something interesting, he had a Vermont Casting Defiant model stove on the floor that uses "flex burn" technology. I guess its a hybrid non cat/cat system. Very nice looking stove. He recommended for my application the Jotul 500 for the reason he said bigger isnt always better and he was concerned the larger stove might be unbearable to sit in the room next to. Since I am not looking to heat the house solely with the stove the 500 would be a good choice. I attached a pic of the Vermont Casting for you guys to see

The Idea of it being "unbearable "to sit next to because the stove is too big is even more reason to get a big catalytic stove. Go big and turn it way down if you want. Buying a stove with a lot of low end control pretty much takes care of that.

 

[Grisu]

He said it doesn't matter anyhow cuz its only top venting which I can't use.

That's not true; when looking at the Explorer 3 specs it clearly shows it can also rear-vent. However, I made a mistake as the center of the flue outlet will be at 31" thus the minimum lintel height needs to be at least 34" which is more than you have. In the top vent configuration it may just fit in your fireplace but you will have a hard time getting it connected to the liner. Sorry for misleading you, but the Explorer does not really work in your situation. Mea culpa.

He recommended for my application the Jotul 500 for the reason he said bigger isnt always better and he was concerned the larger stove might be unbearable to sit in the room next to.

I checked the clearances which usually are a good indication how radiant a stove is. The side clearances are essentially identical for both stoves. Thus, I don't believe that the F600 will be that much more radiant than the F500. If you like the look of the F500 better, that would be a reason. However, I recommend a stovetop thermometer to make sure you don't push the stove too hard when it gets really cold.

Very nice looking stove.

Take your time and do a forum search. Quite a few people here who needed to spend several hundred bucks after just a few years to rebuilt the firebox.

 

[Ashful]

If the goal is sliding a stove back into a fireplace, then a radiant stove is a poor choice. DAMHIKT.

 

[BrotherBart]

On a related note, Mars company dropped red M&M's from the line in the late 1970's when the red dye no.2 was banned, even though Mars never used red dye no.2. Perception is everything.

"They melt in your cat, not in your hand."

 

[chanlon1974]

Well I decided to go with the Jotul 500 in the blue black finish. It had everything I was looking for as far as quality, looks etc. Given the fact that I am not depending on it to heat the house solely, I'm just looking for it to take a big chunk out of my propane bill, which it will. Grisu, the dealer also recommended a stove top thermometer which I purchased so that i keep the stove in the correct burn range. I negotiated a really good price and I'm excited to have this done. Should be installed in about 2 weeks. Thank you to everyone who shared their experiences and stove opinions. I learned quite a bit!!

 

[Grisu]

Happy burning! (We like to see pics once it has a fire inside.)