Large unique home at 8200ft in the Colorado foothills

[Newbie78]

I can understand that. But I'd also assume that philosophy toward, the implementation of, "passive house" design has probably changed quite in a bit in the 42 years since the OP's house was built.

Well, in fact my knowledge of passive buildings dates back almost exactly 42 years old also (43 actually) when it was taught to me by engineers and builders who actually understood what that meant.

op, the blinds are only closed when the wall is warmer than the air, like at night, for example. This holds the heat in and bla, bla, bla Passive 101.

no time to teach today.

 

[Latviski]

Any particular reason the Regency F5200 isn't on the list? Its close to the BK40 but does not have the bimetallic thermostat control. BK didn't make my short list due to availability being many months out, same with others.

I get 12 hours easily on a full load, twice that with temps dropping to 300~ if doing front to back burns and not reloading over too many coals.

I'll definitely check into the Regency. I kept the list reasonable so as not to digress down too many avenues, but I'll check out the Regency and see what I think! The basics for me were, one of the larger fireboxes available, high potential BTU output and at least an 8-10 hr burn time with a preferable time of 12+ hours. That being said, I'm fairly well versed in science and math and fully understand the limitations and benefits of wood stove types. Primarily I was looking for the advice from some of the more seasoned wood burning folks I've been reading on this board. All the assistance is genuinely appreciated!

 

[Latviski]

Well, in fact my knowledge of passive buildings dates back almost exactly 42 years old also (43 actually) when it was taught to me by engineers and builders who actually understood what that meant.

op, the blinds are only closed when the wall is warmer than the air, like at night, for example. This holds the heat in and bla, bla, bla Passive 101.

no time to teach today.

No offense, but let's get this back on track, as the intent was not to create a pissing contest on whose home is 'actually' a passive solar home. Short end -my home was built as passive solar, and that definition is not quite as set in stone as you're letting on. Now back to wood heating, as no matter how passively solar or not one considers my home, I simply need additional BTU input! Cheers.

 

[Latviski]

Ah, sounds like they took the easy way out for that part.
Are any of the magazine articles about the house online? It would be fun to read them.

They can be open during the day and during milder nights.

PS: We have two 5' x 10' facing north in an old farmhouse. Not the greatest idea but our climate is milder.

I have the magazines that the house was featured in 30-40 years ago, as they came with the house, but I don't know if those articles are available online.

Remember the window insulation isn’t all the time and doesn’t have to be all the windows. When it’s dark you can’t see much anyway.

Outdoor boiler???

 

[Latviski]

All the homes near me have between 25 and 500+ acres with no nat gas piping due to everyone being spread out, so it's either propane or electric. Back in the day I'm sure electric made more sense, but it's nuts running those things as anything more than a backup in extreme cold to temper and keep pipes from popping.
To note: I did install a mini split along the staircase (very open area) to push warm air around and create additional warm air much more efficiently than the electric baseboard when needed. With my two PE wood inserts running and the mini split going my bills are 300ish a month electric and I can get the areas I'm in (the main areas of home) to mid 60s on cloudy days or at night. Without the mini split it's mid 50s.
Sunny days house is warm enough on it's own.

Ah, sounds like they took the easy way out for that part.
Are any of the magazine articles about the house online? It would be fun to read them.


They can be open during the day and during milder nights.

PS: We have two 5' x 10' facing north in an old farmhouse. Not the greatest idea but our climate is milder.

 

[Latviski]

I

As one who's been accused of being a BK fanboy, this one may surprise some folks, but I wonder if that's the best choice for a house with this much daytime solar gain.

I have two BK's, and one is in a wing of the house with a lot of solar gain. Not an engineered passive house by any means, it's just a newer 1990's addition with 6" framed walls and blown-in cellulose, with a crap-ton of windows. I find that I need to watch the cloud cover forecast as much as the temperature, in choosing how I load it, as it can be easy to overheat the space on even a cold but sunny day.

I load this stove most evenings, and simply check the next day's forecast. If it's cold and cloudy, I load it full, and set the thermostat for a predictable 24-hour burn. But if the forecast is showing full sun, I might just do a half load using the same thermostat setting, aiming to have the load burned thru in about 12 hours. If this were my primary stove, rather than just a secondary stove heating a smaller area, I'd probably be more scientific or careful about it.

For you, esp. if this will be your only stove, you'll quickly learn how much to compensate the outside temperature for "partly cloudy" vs. "partly sunny", and load accordingly. But if your clime has more sunny than cloudy days, you may find yourself not often taking advantage of the super-long burn times possible with a BK King, and more often short-loading it for quick overnight fires only.

As to heating a 6000 ft2 home with a stove, we can all sit here and debate it, but it's useless talk without knowing the layout and dynamics of your house. Your indication of passive temperature delta (30°F!) makes me think you don't need a whole lot of BTU's, despite it being a larger home, but you could easily run those basic numbers. As to distribution, stoves put out much lower BTU than your central heating, but over a longer time. This aids in keeping things leveled better than you'd expect, if used to basing your expectations on a higher-BTU intermittent heat source. That said, there's no harm in using your stove to provide some base load, while allowing multi-zone central heating to modulate final comfort atop that, which is essentially what I'm doing in a home of similar size to yours (6700 sq.ft.).

I'm definitely not going to overheat anything! Ha. I do like the BK's my only concern is their peak output BTU's might fall a hair short? Otherwise, I dig the long burn time, great BTU output/time and the simplicity of controls. They're on my list for a reason.
The main thing I need (want) is a big firebox (BK wins here for sure), plenty of potential BTU's, and the ability for decent burn time. I will be burning almost exclusively ponderosa, lodgepole, and spruce as I harvest all my own wood. I'm not an expert in catalytic longevity with softer woods but I've heard they can have a shorter lifespan when burning exclusively pine.
And yes, the passive temp delta on a sunny day is amazing. Alpine sun definitely is intense!

 

[Ashful]

I

I'm definitely not going to overheat anything! Ha. I do like the BK's my only concern is their peak output BTU's might fall a hair short? Otherwise, I dig the long burn time, great BTU output/time and the simplicity of controls. They're on my list for a reason.
The main thing I need (want) is a big firebox (BK wins here for sure), plenty of potential BTU's, and the ability for decent burn time. I will be burning almost exclusively ponderosa, lodgepole, and spruce as I harvest all my own wood. I'm not an expert in catalytic longevity with softer woods but I've heard they can have a shorter lifespan when burning exclusively pine.
And yes, the passive temp delta on a sunny day is amazing. Alpine sun definitely is intense!

You seem to have a pretty good understanding of things, in mentioning flexibility. Too many newcomers here think you're going to buy a BK and get 30 hour burn times with high BTU output. But as you already seem to understand, that's an OR, not an AND condition.

But no shade on BK from this corner. I wouldn't own a matching pair of them, if I thought they were anything less than the best stove on the market.

 

[akgal]

I would also suggest an outdoor woodfired boiler. We heat our home with one (radiant in-floor plus some baseboard) and we burn mostly beetle-kill spruce. We are in Alaska and in Dec had a week where we didn’t break -30. Our place is much smaller than yours but they are sized for square footage. We can let ours go 12 hours without reloading except on the most brutally cold days. Even if the fire dies out your pipes retain heat for a while and it’s not hard to restart. We don’t have one but BK is very popular in AK because of large firebox and long burn times.

 

[EbS-P]

All the homes near me have between 25 and 500+ acres with no nat gas piping due to everyone being spread out, so it's either propane or electric. Back in the day I'm sure electric made more sense, but it's nuts running those things as anything more than a backup in extreme cold to temper and keep pipes from popping.
To note: I did install a mini split along the staircase (very open area) to push warm air around and create additional warm air much more efficiently than the electric baseboard when needed. With my two PE wood inserts running and the mini split going my bills are 300ish a month electric and I can get the areas I'm in (the main areas of home) to mid 60s on cloudy days or at night. Without the mini split it's mid 50s.
Sunny days house is warm enough on it's own.

300$ a month for that square footage is really quite good. I’d be swapping insert(s) for a the biggest insert I could buy. And making sure they not over drafting.

Osborn has a big one, buck 91 but that’s and 8” might be another I’m missing.

For stoves. You want big heat, not low and slow. Buck 91 still makes the list for a freestanding. 8” The big Regency is a good one too. The cost difference between 6” and 8” is significant. That difference would buy a lot of electricity for another mini split.

I would be looking at propane too.

 

[Ashful]

300$ a month for that square footage is really quite good.

Agreed. At $300/month all-in at 6000 sq.ft., I'd not be changing a damn thing! My last bill was $535.86, and I don't even use electric for primary heating. Add to that about a cord of oak every 3rd week in mid-winter + 1000 gallons of oil per year.

 

[Newbie78]

I think it's the 1000$ months he's trying to minimize...

 

[Latviski]

The 300 a month is me ok, the lady tired of wearing ski gear indoors! I’d like the ability to get a large zone to high 60s low 70s. Hence the big firebox!

 

[Latviski]

I think it's the 1000$ months he's trying to minimize...

Yep. I can manage temps in the 50s (cold blooded apparently), which is how I get that low cost per month. If I push the electric baseboard to raise temp even 5-7 degrees it doubles or triples the bill instantly

 

[Latviski]

300$ a month for that square footage is really quite good. I’d be swapping insert(s) for a the biggest insert I could buy. And making sure they not over drafting.

Osborn has a big one, buck 91 but that’s and 8” might be another I’m missing.

For stoves. You want big heat, not low and slow. Buck 91 still makes the list for a freestanding. 8” The big Regency is a good one too. The cost difference between 6” and 8” is significant. That difference would buy a lot of electricity for another mini split.

I would be looking at propane too.

Yeah - if I could reasonably fit a bigger insert than I have I would. However the original three fireplaces were heatilator prefab built in jobs. Built into that 120’ rock wall so after much measuring and some sheet metal work the biggest I could fit was the PE super insert. Totally happy with the two I have they simply can’t put out enough btus

 

[begreen]

Any particular reason the Regency F5200 isn't on the list? Its close to the BK40 but does not have the bimetallic thermostat control. BK didn't make my short list due to availability being many months out, same with others.

I get 12 hours easily on a full load, twice that with temps dropping to 300~ if doing front to back burns and not reloading over too many coals.

Nope, good suggestion. The bigger the better here.

 

[begreen]

That's a terrific view. In the short term, getting a bank of insulating shades on the bank of windows will make a notable improvement. Some can be motorized, automated, and even set on a timer or photocell to open in the morning and close at sunset.

 

[begreen]

Seeing that is such a large open space, a wood furnace in the basement would not require a ton of ducting to pipe a lot of heat upstairs. The main issue might be locating the chimney. It could be chased so it's not visible passing through the main floor.

 

[Latviski]

Seeing that is such a large open space, a wood furnace in the basement would not require a ton of ducting to pipe a lot of heat upstairs. The main issue might be locating the chimney. It could be chased so it's not visible passing through the main floor

Chimney would be challenging from 1st floor for sure. Overbuilt is an understatement for this home. Everything is concrete or big beams. And the only reasonable place to locate the wood furnace would be in the part of the house underground (back half), which means going through both concrete and earth to get out. I like the idea but it goes from a long weekend project for me to major demo work and weeks.

 

[Latviski]

That's a terrific view. In the short term, getting a bank of insulating shades on the bank of windows will make a notable improvement. Some can be motorized, automated, and even set on a timer or photocell to open in the morning and close at sunset.

The cellular or similar shades are happening for sure. Now it’s just which stove!

 

[Latviski]

I would also suggest an outdoor woodfired boiler. We heat our home with one (radiant in-floor plus some baseboard) and we burn mostly beetle-kill spruce. We are in Alaska and in Dec had a week where we didn’t break -30. Our place is much smaller than yours but they are sized for square footage. We can let ours go 12 hours without reloading except on the most brutally cold days. Even if the fire dies out your pipes retain heat for a while and it’s not hard to restart. We don’t have one but BK is very popular in AK because of large firebox and long burn times.

Great suggestion and if the house were built any differently I’d be all in. Locating it anywhere reasonable would mean lots of concrete demo and earth moving as the home is built into a mountain (half underground) and all walls are reinforced poured concrete.

 

[Latviski]

300$ a month for that square footage is really quite good. I’d be swapping insert(s) for a the biggest insert I could buy. And making sure they not over drafting.

Osborn has a big one, buck 91 but that’s and 8” might be another I’m missing.

For stoves. You want big heat, not low and slow. Buck 91 still makes the list for a freestanding. 8” The big Regency is a good one too. The cost difference between 6” and 8” is significant. That difference would buy a lot of electricity for another mini split.

I would be looking at propane too.

Regency Is def an option - thank you for that info.
I have propane for cooking. House is not setup for any boiler type heat and to do so would be monumentally challenging. I’m rehashing but this is not a home anyone would want to try and demo or do long runs of pipe/ conduit/ ducting!
I’ve built two row homes from beams and brick walls up so I’m pretty capable of any remodel . That also makes me wise enough to know when not to consider certain options!

 

[Newbie78]

It gets cold here. We like our house warm, very toasty cosy warm. Like walk around in your underwear warm when it's -40 out. It seems as we get older we like it warmer..

I've been ranting... one last time.. if you get some decent blind/shutter action going on (and as stated by others it can be automated and automatic) your substantial thermal mass can be made to work as nature intended.

done. Good luck!

 

[Latviski]

It gets cold here. We like our house warm, very toasty cosy warm. Like walk around in your underwear warm when it's -40 out. It seems as we get older we like it warmer..

I've been ranting... one last time.. if you get some decent blind/shutter action going on (and as stated by others it can be automated and automatic) your substantial thermal mass can be made to work as nature intended.

done. Good luck!

The blinds are happening. Shutters won’t look right with the architecture.
Now to decide on the stove.
At this point I’m down to Drolet HT-3000 (hard to beat they bargain), the Blaze king 40, and the Regency 5200. I’m not cheap but I sure do like the value of the drolet!
BK is fantastic for burn time and ease of control.
Regency right in the middle

 

[begreen]

Chimney would be challenging from 1st floor for sure. Overbuilt is an understatement for this home. Everything is concrete or big beams. And the only reasonable place to locate the wood furnace would be in the part of the house underground (back half), which means going through both concrete and earth to get out. I like the idea but it goes from a long weekend project for me to major demo work and weeks.

Where would the new stove be located and how would be vented?

 

[Latviski]

Ffre

Where would the new stove be located and how would be vented?

Freestander would be on the 2nd level. Straight up and out the flat TPO roof (the half of the house not underground). I could use the buily in house fans that pull air from upstairs to lower level to move heat.
Lower level is more compartmented and easier to heat - upstairs is the real challenge