Least work to cut, split and stack a cord?

[peakbagger]

While getting caught up on my wood supply yesterday I was thinking what was the least effort to cut split and stack wood? I have steep rocky lot so I need to drop the trees and with cut the up the woods and manually move the wood out to the road or pull the wood with winch to the road. I dropped a 20" beech and find that even with a sharp chain cutting it into rounds and moving it out to the road seems a lot slower than dropping smaller diameter trees which my saw just rips through. I did buy a capstan inch last year and found that its bit slow doing solo cutting as the logs get caught up pulling them out of the woods. Yes having the log pulled to the road makes for quick bucking but the setup tends to eat up the savings. I normally cut a load and them clear out of the woods so it means more time eaten up by setting up and taken down the rigging as I do not leave anything in the woods. I expect setting up once and leaving the setup in the woods is the way to go but my lot it remote from my home.

I do want to split the wood so that also factors into the equation and usually stack out in the open and box in the corners of the stacks so blocky splits are needed. I find the best splits for corner blocking with a splitter are flat slabs with the worst being small rounds with quarters a close second. The big beech yielded 12" flat slabs that made for great corners but the extra hassle to move them around sure feels like it was not worth it. My guess is 10 to 12" diameter straight trees are probably optimum as my saw seems to go right through them plus I can split the in quarters or flats that make stacking easier. Out of general principle I cut down to about 2" in diameter and usually keep them as rounds until the squeak over 4" diameter. I use those in the center of the pile and to fill in the gaps at the top. Beech is not ideal due to a messier crown but my management plan is to concentrate on beech which means I deal with the bends crown and end up with sume "ugly" wood that I usually throw in the center row of the stack.

So what is your strategy?

 

[Kevin Weis]

Guess mine's too easy. I just buck on my neighbors property off a pre-existing logging road and skid to the shed where the splitter resides with my Kubota BX 1500 and cut and split there and pile the wood in the same shed. Or I cut the rounds at the site and transport the
Rounds in the loader bucket to the same splitter shed.

 

[byQ]

Guess mine's too easy. I just buck on my neighbors property off a pre-existing logging road and skid to the shed where the splitter resides with my Kubota BX 1500 and cut and split there and pile the wood in the same shed. Or I cut the rounds at the site and transport the
Rounds in the loader bucket to the same splitter shed.

Are the trees already down? What species of wood are you getting?

 

[jaoneill]

Seems there is always a tradeoff and often it's a hard call. The bulk of my woodlot, a sixty +/- acre piece, is a tad over a mile, a 10-15 minute jaunt, from the house by way of a tractor road. There is an abundance of 18"-24" hickory, sugar maple, yellow birch and beech that is easy to get to with tractors or the Gator. Last year I sold some hickory lumber and had a fair amount of tops consisting of 25', 18"-20" logs as well as the limb wood, so I cut a few maple and beech to add to it and skidded the lot out of the woods and processed in the open with the intent of kiln drying them. That worked well and was, to my way of thinking, "easy gettin' wood".
However, in that same section of woods there are 50-75 sugar maples, 4' to 5' at the base that have reached a stage that they are beginning to die off. At three to four cord apiece it seems, to a frugal old guy like me at least, a sin, almost criminal, to let this premier old growth wood go to waste, and it does, as they go hollow and punky long before falling over and then there is always the danger of the unexpected falling limb. Problem is that turning these monsters into firewood is one devil of a lot of work, and there is always that element of risk in taking them down. The 18"-24" limbs work up fairly quickly but the trunks are a bear. They are generally so hard that one needs to stop to sharpen before even refueling the saw, and noodling the rounds into quarters to be able to handle them is more work yet. I have decided that, as much as it goes against my grain, the best avenue at this stage is to simply wait until they go over and salvage what I can of the limb wood. There is still a 10'-12' butt log lying out there from the last one I dropped 4-5 years ago, probably contained at least a cord of premium wood when I cut it, now it's feeding the worms.

 

[Dataman]

I was burning Wood until last year. I found that Windstorms brought down plenty of trees. Widow Makers I hired person to drop them. Got Wife to drag them out with Tractor to place I can delimb and buck up and let the burn pile age. She would plow around the pile. Throw 5 Gallons of 100% pure Alcohol (Used got to dispose of it somehow) on it. Sure glad to be done with Firewood, switched to pellets. I used to bring in guy to shred the branches and small trees. Alas he retired and now forced to burn it. Of course it helps to have 10ac with another 15ac I can get trees from. All level land too.

 

[JohnDolz]

While getting caught up on my wood supply yesterday I was thinking what was the least effort to cut split and stack wood? I have steep rocky lot so I need to drop the trees and with cut the up the woods and manually move the wood out to the road or pull the wood with winch to the road. I dropped a 20" beech and find that even with a sharp chain cutting it into rounds and moving it out to the road seems a lot slower than dropping smaller diameter trees which my saw just rips through. I did buy a capstan inch last year and found that its bit slow doing solo cutting as the logs get caught up pulling them out of the woods. Yes having the log pulled to the road makes for quick bucking but the setup tends to eat up the savings. I normally cut a load and them clear out of the woods so it means more time eaten up by setting up and taken down the rigging as I do not leave anything in the woods. I expect setting up once and leaving the setup in the woods is the way to go but my lot it remote from my home.

I do want to split the wood so that also factors into the equation and usually stack out in the open and box in the corners of the stacks so blocky splits are needed. I find the best splits for corner blocking with a splitter are flat slabs with the worst being small rounds with quarters a close second. The big beech yielded 12" flat slabs that made for great corners but the extra hassle to move them around sure feels like it was not worth it. My guess is 10 to 12" diameter straight trees are probably optimum as my saw seems to go right through them plus I can split the in quarters or flats that make stacking easier. Out of general principle I cut down to about 2" in diameter and usually keep them as rounds until the squeak over 4" diameter. I use those in the center of the pile and to fill in the gaps at the top. Beech is not ideal due to a messier crown but my management plan is to concentrate on beech which means I deal with the bends crown and end up with sume "ugly" wood that I usually throw in the center row of the stack.

So what is your strategy?

If I want heat with the ease, I spend a few extra hours at work and fire up my propane boiler. The wood is for fun, exercise, time with my boys and many other similar reasons. If I think about heating with wood and easy in the same sentence it makes my head hurt.

 

[peakbagger]

I could also fire up the oil boiler but like to have 2 years of wood as I like the heat better. As long as the old sugar maples are alive I want to leave them as they still put out seedlings. I figure if they have lasted this long and major ice storm their must be good genes in them. Looking at the younger maples in the area they look pretty good.

The question I was thinking about is if the end goal is firewood, is the effort to cut a lot of big stuff or a lot of small stuff?. Much as having a pile of big rounds, I think its a lot easier to throw the small stuff towards the road and up into the Unimog. Its rated for 2.5 tons but the tailgate is 4'6"high so loading it is bit of challenge.

 

[jaoneill]

The question I was thinking about is if the end goal is firewood, is the effort to cut a lot of big stuff or a lot of small stuff?.

That is the $64,000 question.... The ideal size for me seems to be in the 16"-20" range. I cut mine 23" and I can still lift a 20"diameter round that length without difficulty, which means that I can have the foot of my vertical splitter at thigh height and split standing upright while getting a reasonable volume of wood from each piece (cuts down on handling more pieces in the pre-split stage). Much larger and I have to lower the splitter to the ground and kneel or bend over to get the blocks down to a manageable size.

 

[jaoneill]

As long as the old sugar maples are alive I want to leave them as they still put out seedlings. I figure if they have lasted this long and major ice storm their must be good genes in them. Looking at the younger maples in the area they look pretty good.

I have left my old trees alone for 50 years but, one by one, they are reaching that age.......

 

[JohnDolz]

I could also fire up the oil boiler but like to have 2 years of wood as I like the heat better. As long as the old sugar maples are alive I want to leave them as they still put out seedlings. I figure if they have lasted this long and major ice storm their must be good genes in them. Looking at the younger maples in the area they look pretty good.

The question I was thinking about is if the end goal is firewood, is the effort to cut a lot of big stuff or a lot of small stuff?. Much as having a pile of big rounds, I think its a lot easier to throw the small stuff towards the road and up into the Unimog. Its rated for 2.5 tons but the tailgate is 4'6"high so loading it is bit of challenge.

My neighbor put in a pool which resulted in me getting about 25 cord of wood. Most of it was big, 20"+ (up to 36" or so) so I have a pretty decent point of reference. The small pieces were as welcome as dessert. Even with a hydraulic lift arm the time in handling of the big pieces, in my opinion, results in a reasonably lower output per hour.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Are the trees already down? What species of wood are you getting?

Most of it is standing dead Ash from EAB. Anywhere from 12" a 20" DBH 60' tall. The EAB is having a field day in these parts.

 

[MrWhoopee]

Least work for the most wood is probably 16-18" diameter. I can't help it though, I'm drawn to the 24-30" diameter. There is just so much wood in those rounds. And, of course, the stuff that doesn't need to be split at all seems so easy. So much depends on the handling before it gets to the splitter.

 

[EODMSgt]

The question I was thinking about is if the end goal is firewood, is the effort to cut a lot of big stuff or a lot of small stuff?. Much as having a pile of big rounds, I think its a lot easier to throw the small stuff towards the road and up into the Unimog. Its rated for 2.5 tons but the tailgate is 4'6"high so loading it is bit of challenge.

I can empathize with you as a lot of my firewood comes from the WMNF with dead and down permits. I would prefer to get larger trees however finding those close to the road that haven't turned punky is not common. I have scrounged quite a few large ones using a winch from the road and a skidder cone or using a come-a-long for some that are farther in the woods however that's a lot of gear to hump in and out and a lot of extra work. I know many people turn their noses at smaller trees (under 10") however I can collect a lot more firewood when they're smaller and get it back to the truck with half the effort (considering a lot of what I get is down steep slopes). Smaller trees burn just as well as larger trees, you just obviously don't get the large splits. We have a ton of beech over here so that is probably my most common tree to scrounge aside from ash and paper birch. This year I was working on getting 1-2 years ahead so I grabbed any decent tree I could find (down to about six inches). Now that I'm starting to get ahead, I'll look for more of the larger trees to mix in the stacks. I would say don't kill yourself over the larger stuff until you have a good supply. You can see from the pic below that I have a lot of smaller rounds mixed in the piles waiting to be split. It's still firewood and it still produces BTU's and when hauling everything out by foot, they're a lot easier to move around.

 

[peakbagger]

The bummer with the WMNF is that of late they do a lot of cutting to yards that end up well behind gates. While hiking I run into big yards loaded with prime picking but they were serviced by temporary roads that get closed and "put to bed" at the end of the cut meaning pulling culverts and putting in cross road drainage ditches so its long haul out.

The more I think of it, if I need to split a round more than into 4 pieces its probably too big for optimal. My splitter is too small for a four way head but I can usually split a round in half, then rotate it and catch enough of the top half that I get four quarters. If I go bigger inevitably one half falls on the pile while I resplit the other half into several more pieces and then I have to reach over the splitter and lift the other half up. That takes up a lot of splitter time compared to taking it off the bed and dropping it in the splitter. Coincidentally, the 4 pieces approach means I can probably throw the wood to my landing instead of carrying it which it tough as the footing is not ideal.

The biggest change these days is the Unimog's cargo bed is probably twice the size of a standard pickup and is rated for 2 tons. I run out of motivation long before I have filled up the bed . It definitely rides a lot nicer than empty with a ton or so in the bed.

 

[MrWhoopee]

The more I think of it, if I need to split a round more than into 4 pieces its probably too big for optimal. My splitter is too small for a four way head but I can usually split a round in half, then rotate it and catch enough of the top half that I get four quarters. If I go bigger inevitably one half falls on the pile while I resplit the other half into several more pieces and then I have to reach over the splitter and lift the other half up. That takes up a lot of splitter time compared to taking it off the bed and dropping it in the splitter. Coincidentally, the 4 pieces approach means I can probably throw the wood to my landing instead of carrying it which it tough as the footing is not ideal.

Two things come immediately to mind. First, you need an outfeed table or some other arrangement to prevent splits falling from the splitter to the ground. Second, find a way to avoid throwing the splits on the ground before stacking. Lift the wood into the Unimog, don't put it down until you stack it.

 

[maple1]

I go after windfalls. That is part of the work and most of the danger taken care of right there. And there are all kinds of windfalls back there.

Next I hook my splitter to my trailer to my ATV & park it right next to the tree, and split right where the rounds lay after I cut them up. Toss on the trailer right off the splitter. More work saved. Then I drive the trailer right to my pallets & stack. Where it stays for a couple years until I move it into the basement.

All dependant on situation & terrain. I have had the ATV & trailer up & down some iffy hilly situations, but I have one hill back there with a lot of windfalls at the top that I won't try coming down with the trailer behind me. So that stuff will unfortunately likely end up as nutrients.

 

[Ashful]

You’re lucky to be harvesting in your own property. I have the added step of getting it home, which often also means hauling a tractor to and from the harvesting site.

Skid out of woods with tractor:

Winch onto trailer:

Drag off trailer and stack for processing at home:

 

[WiscWoody]

I’ve seen those photos before Ash and it still amazes me on how big the rounds are that your are working with.... wow! That big oak round being skidded by the tractor must have been a real bugger to split and I k ow you’ve had many like that, I saw your row of logs like that before. How do you do it? And is that your pops on the tractor?

 

[Ashful]

No relation. That's an old friend of mine that I have been cutting with for years, same age as my pop, actually.

That log was so heavy that we had to cut it to 7.5' lengths, instead of my usual 15 feet, but we still got it out of the woods and onto the trailer without too much trouble.

I process those rounds by noodling them to 6" thick slabs, and then walking those slabs onto the foot plate of my splitter in vertical orientation. Pretty easy, if you don't mind some noodling with a big saw!

 

[maple1]

I haven't done it much, try to avoid it, but any time I have noodled big rounds, then split it, I would end up with a bunch of weird shaped pieces. Because the grain that my splitter followed when splitting was in a different direction than the noodling cuts.

 

[Ashful]

I haven't done it much, try to avoid it, but any time I have noodled big rounds, then split it, I would end up with a bunch of weird shaped pieces. Because the grain that my splitter followed when splitting was in a different direction than the noodling cuts.

I’ve had that happen a few times, but 99% of the time I just get perfect (almost sawn lumber-like) 6” square pieces, like this:

I guess it’s because I’m sawing in one direction, but splitting perpendicular to that direction, so one should have little bearing on the other.

 

[maple1]

Yes, effect is likely diminished if noodling into slabs first. Rather than noodling in quarters or halves.

 

[peakbagger]

Obviously someone cuts what they have access to but I cant see where voluntarily using wood that needs noodling reduces effort.

 

[billb3]

Some people just enjoy noodling.

 

[Ashful]

Obviously someone cuts what they have access to but I cant see where voluntarily using wood that needs noodling reduces effort.

Yeah, I wasn’t necessarily saying it does, the conversation just sort of wandered there.

But since you brought it up, I can fill a trailer with 5000 lb. of oak pretty damn fast, when it’s a single 30” diameter x 15 ft. stick. So, big logs definitely save me a bundle of time in the field, at the expense of a little extra time at home.

I filled numerous trailers this summer with mostly 8” - 12” diameter logs, and can say it would take me about three hours to load and unload 5000 lb. of logs at that diameter. A single 30” diameter log could take me less than an hour to fetch and unload, at least 3x faster.

So, I suppose that, even with the noodling, it might be faster for me. But your results may vary, depending on your equipment.