Let's discuss my DW 2479 non-CAT

[Highbeam]

Yep, the chimney flashing/roofing job is botched. You should see the bottom of the flashing on all of the roof jacks. Check your plumbing penetrations too. Makes me suspect the rest of the roof and I have another peave, nail heads. You should not see any nail heads on the job except the very center top of the ridge cap. Little gaskets or roofing tar over the nail heads is not the right way to do it.

The stove shop sold you that stove because that's what they sell. This has nothing to do with whether or not the stove is the best for your application or even a good stove. You go to a poop salesman and he will sell you poop. The buyer needs to know what he wants.

That said, now that you have it, may as well try and make the VC work. Their stoves have always looked nice.

 

[firefighterjake]

Great! So now most people that sell wood do not season their wood either hey? That was supposed to be my back up plan going in if we go through our dry supply quickly and I need more. Do you guys have any good news for me?

Uh . . . I just saved a lot of money by switching to Geico?

Actually, if there is any good news . . . you're at the right place to find answers from folks who generally don't have a whole lot of vested interest in selling you anything . . . folks that in many cases have had real life experiences with burning wood in their own home and not just on the showroom floor.

 

[Jags]

What would be the absolute highest moisture content you would burn in this stove? You mentioned a goal of 22%. But if I can’t find anything decent when I look to buy some then what?

Get what ever comes in at the lowest. My guess would be that anything over 25% would be a futile fight. Even at 24 or 25 its gonna be a tough go.

 

[BJE80]

Yep, the chimney flashing/roofing job is botched. You should see the bottom of the flashing on all of the roof jacks. Check your plumbing penetrations too. Makes me suspect the rest of the roof and I have another peave, nail heads. You should not see any nail heads on the job except the very center top of the ridge cap. Little gaskets or roofing tar over the nail heads is not the right way to do it.

So what are my options with this situation? If this is truly the case I can't just go back to the builder/wood stove installer and say some guys on the internet said you didn't do it right. Do you know of some reference or have a suggestion on how I would back up my claim?

 

[begreen]

You may find this thread helpful, especially the postings by tradergordo.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/secondary-combustion-dutchwest.45090/

 

[fox9988]

Was the chimney installed before the roof was shingled? If so, it's the roofer's fault. If you used a contractor, call him, he should have the roofer fix it. If you contracted it yourself, call the roofer.
If the chimney was installed after the shingles, call the installer.
Regardless who is at fault, the problem should be obvious. No references needed.

 

[KaptJaq]

So what are my options with this situation? If this is truly the case I can't just go back to the builder/wood stove installer and say some guys on the internet said you didn't do it right. Do you know of some reference or have a suggestion on how I would back up my claim?

The installation guide that came with the flashing kit will show the proper way to install it. Look at you bill to see what model was installed then look for the installation guide on the internet. Below are a couple of pictures of the way the flashing should look... The second one shows the shingles lifted as the flashing is slid into place.




KaptJaq

 

[BJE80]

Was the chimney installed before the roof was shingled? If so, it's the roofer's fault. If you used a contractor, call him, he should have the roofer fix it. If you contracted it yourself, call the roofer.
If the chimney was installed after the shingles, call the installer.
Regardless who is at fault, the problem should be obvious. No references needed.

The chimney was installed the very last step of the cabin. So it was after the roof was shingled. So this is not the builder but the stove installer. Having said that the builder is who suggested we use this place to buy from and install and it was under an allowance.

 

[KaptJaq]

You might want to read this review of the stove:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...cat-owners-discussion-and-review-thread.3386/

If you follow the instructions, use dry wood, and control your fire properly I think you will be happy with the stove. The everburn system is a little more sensitive to wood moisture and start-up procedures then some other stoves but once you master them it is a good heating unit.

KaptJaq

 

[BJE80]

I'm just trying to grasp the complexity of the situation. When you say the everburn system is a little more sensitive to wood does that mean it just doesn't burn well or that the everburn will be ruined if it is exposed to too much moisture? Or both?


It's funny because the "expert" told me to get the non-cat one because it is far less fussy on the type, dryness and quality of wood that could be burnt in it compared to the CAT model.

 

[begreen]

Expert: Ex=the unknown factor, xpert= a drip under pressure

 

[stovelark]

BJE As a dealer who sells the Dutch West stoves- I will tell you the Everburn (Known kiddingly as Neverburn) is not my first choice in stoves- I am a sec tube for reburn kinda person, however, years back Vermont Casting was moving away from Catalytic stoves for perople who didn't want them, but New Eng people still wanted a toploading stove, well you couldn't have a sec tube system in the way if you wanted to topload (Quad did that right with hinging sec tube system that actually worked well and let you top load if you wanted to see Isle Royale model nice stove..) Harman at the time had a similar system to the Everburn that was new and was accepted as being pretty good Oakwood model I believe. The everburn system acts like a cat stove with no cat. Sec air is mixed in a ceramic housing behind the everburn ceramic front you don't see much of the sec gases burning behind this ceramic plate and shoe. As you know you still have the bypass up in the top like the old older Vermont Castings (and even Jotul at one point the Firelight 12 cat top loading stove). The Dutchwest lines have always been side loaders- they kept that part of their lineage with the VC everburn system. I work with a guy who was at VC R/D at the time this system was being designed- main criteria was to satisfy the broades spectre of potential buyers non cat people, keep the topload avail (For VC stove owners), and it still looks and kinda runs like the cat stoves, for the past cat stove people too. Remember its all for retail. Having said that, VC and DW don't sell much at our store, you still have VC diehard people who only want VC. The Montpelier Insert (sec tube reburn system) and Merrimack Ins (same) VC inserts sell very well, but Enviro stoves and Inserts are what we mostly sell. Unfortunately, stove stores sometimes do sell what they have, not always the best stove for you. I will say tho, your setup is prob the best possible setup for you- vertical run class A chimney. With reasonably dry wood (moisture 15-25 percent) it will burn well. With hi moisture wood, no stove burns great- but some tolerate it more than others. And yes normally the flashing is on top of the shingles on the downside, thats how we would install it anyway. Its not a terrible stove, good wood is the real key. And dealer/Manufacturer support. Good luck

Stovelark
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood
Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
Enviro EF3 FS pellet (I like Enviro)

 

[begreen]

Did Monessen upgrade the refractory in the Dutchwest non-cat line? That appears to be the weak point in these stoves.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Did Monessen upgrade the refractory in the Dutchwest non-cat line? That appears to be the weak point in these stoves.

I do not believe so.

 

[stovelark]

Begreen unfortunately you are right. Monessen will warrantee the orig owner the ceramic plate and shoe the orig ceramic piece for the side loading door was upgraded to a cast iron replacement- the everburn sec package behind the ceramic plate reminds me of the old Jotul 12 firelight cat housings- looks and lasts about the same poorly- they did put a metal shield over the sec package to keep chimney sweeps (and stoveshop techs) from crunching the pkg when sweeping down the chimney if they didn't take the chim conn pipe or liner conn pipe depending on the install. They're not bad stoves, theres just better designs (Jotul, PE, Enviro cast stoves) available. I notice you have the Alderlea T6 nice design... and Jotul 602 (the most produced wood stove ever.)

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood

 

[Jags]

Stovelark - very good info and thanks for reinforcing the "good wood" angle.

And you are right - the Isle Royal is a darn fine stove.

 

[Todd]

One other thing about your firewood. If it's less than ideal split it smaller so it dries faster. In those video's the wood looks a little on the large size to me, I think these everburn stoves would work better if people were burning splits in the 2-6" range and loading it so there are good air circulation gaps between. That rear afterburn chamber has to come up to temp and get hot before it burns the smoke and gas, smaller splits will get it hotter faster.

 

[BJE80]

One other thing about your firewood. If it's less than ideal split it smaller so it dries faster. In those video's the wood looks a little on the large size to me, I think these everburn stoves would work better if people were burning splits in the 2-6" range and loading it so there are good air circulation gaps between. That rear afterburn chamber has to come up to temp and get hot before it burns the smoke and gas, smaller splits will get it hotter faster.

Good idea. Looking forward to getting that meter and checking my current supply. Then I will know what is ready and what is not. Thanks everyone for your help. I hope it turns out well.

 

[Ashful]

No need to get too excited here...

1. The flashing may not be entirely incorrect. The flashing should indeed be on top of the shingles on the downshill side, but it's also not uncommon for roofers to glue a dress course of shingles over the flashing. In other words, water may still be shedding on top of the course below (appears to be so), even though it's cosmetically covered on the bottom side.

2. You would do well to look up a thread in which I questioned the Harman Firedome. This is a similar system. The take-away is that the chimney makes the stove work, and not vice-versa. Both systems work well if draft conditions are just right... but they are difficult when draft conditions are less than ideal. This means more reliance on getting your chimney height/diameter correct than other stoves, and more dependence on outside temperature, but there are people using this technology with success.

Once you get a year under your belt, you'll have a better idea of where you stand. It's not the end of the world one way or the other. You may need to fiddle with your chimney setup to get it working well, or just swap it out for a different stove if you can't. Once you get into the season, and have a chance to experiment with it a little, you'll come back with some more specific questions. The folks here know their stuff, and will get you thru it!

 

[stovelark]

Joful great points made. In his install too, its vertical class a chimney so draft and hence operation should be fine. Sometimes I think we all have to remember that its a constant compromise- all stoves will perform somewhat great if certain criterias are met, some will perform fantastically, if installed and operated correctly, most stoves will do well. 90 percent of it is still the firewood, although a well drafting chimney will certainly make up for a lot. If we keep in mind the cost expended too, I would still say the 2479 is a good stove (altho not my first choice) for what it cost. If cost is not a primary consideration, I'd still go with Jotul, Enviro (cast) or PE (cast).

Stovelark
Enviro EF3 FS pellet
Enviro Empress FPI AC pellet
Enviro Kodiak 1700 FS wood