Looking for a new stove, help me spend money!

[NHbeechfired]

Good afternoon, thanks to the moderators for allowing me to join the group. I live in central New Hampshire and my wife and i are looking to increase the amount of our heating we are getting from wood. Presently we have a 1920‘s vintage cook stove in the kitchen. We sent this out for a refurbish when we bought this house a couple years ago and it has the perfect aesthetic for our home but it isn’t worth much as a serious source of heat.

Presently Im researching stoves and I’im liking the Jotul F500/600 stoves as they have a nice look and seem to have a good reputation . I’m also very intrigued by the soap stone stoves, I like that they seem to run at a lower surface temp that the cast or steel units and as this is will be close to the kitchen table I don’t want it to be so hot that it’s uncomfortable to sit at the table and the sopstones seem like they are worth considering for that alone. I’ve been around stoves all my life but never had any experience with the catalytic stoves . Our last home we had a harmon pellet insert and the one before that we had a quadrafire insert. The present house is a 1990 built replica of the original owners family farm house it’s about 2200 sq ft and has two stories. given the layout I’d be happy if we can heat the ground floor and have a little heat seep up the stairs. The kitchen has a hearth that the cook stove is on, the flue that serves that stove has a new 6” stainless liner in it.

I’d be glad for any guidance or suggestions on which stoves i might consider we’d like to stay with a more traditional style and side loading on the right side is a big plus! Thanks in advance!

 

[EbS-P]

New F500 has a catalytic converter and has had some issues. It’s really not worth the gamble right now. F600 is discontinued. F45 and F55 are good for a cast iron jacketed steel stoves. I’d look at the Pacific energy T5. It has a similar look and a good track record swing out trivets. Check out Woodstock if you really want the right side door.

If the tax credit is important it will limit your choices. Supply is quite right now so this could be for next winter if you really fall in love with one.

 

[NHbeechfired]

New F500 has a catalytic converter and has had some issues. It’s really not worth the gamble right now. F600 is discontinued. F45 and F55 are good for a cast iron jacketed steel stoves. I’d look at the Pacific energy T5. It has a similar look and a good track record swing out trivets. Check out Woodstock if you really want the right side door.

If the tax credit is important it will limit your choices. Supply is quite right now so this could be for next winter if you really fall in love with one.

What issues have the F 500's had? I see the V3 is the current offering, and Jotul's web site is referencing some new high flow catalyst system. Is there some issue with the new cat system? Any idea how long this sytem is in production?

I'd love a Woodstock progress hybrid, I spoke with them last week and she said the earliest i could get a stove is February. I might drive over to their showroom and see if i can sweet talk them into shortening that up a month or so ....

I have pretty much every brand available at a shop within 30 miles of here except blaze king which is a bit further. we really want to have a classic style similar to the F 500/ 600 glass front to see the fire is a must, enameled finish a big plus too. Any sugestions on other stoves that might fit what we are looking for? Another concern is availability, everything is so backed up now and the projection for heating oil cost is going to drive all the folks who have been thinking of getting a stove into buying. I'm not opposed to a used stove for one season and then buying new if that becomes necessary. I saw a really clean Jotul firelight come up on craigslist recently. Its incredibly clean and we love the style but the guy is asking 1900 for it, he's gonna have to come down to get me to bite.

 

[rijim]

Availability will limit your options if you want a stove this year; you may want to check with local stove shops to see what is available.

 

[NHbeechfired]

Availability will limit your options if you want a stove this year; you may want to check with local stove shops to see what is available.

Is there a known shortage of stoves this year or is this a normal seasonal shortage? I haven't bought a stove since i bought the Harman Accentra insert for my las home almost 20 years ago.

 

[begreen]

What are the options for locating this stove and how open is that area to the rest of the house? How close is it to the stairwell?

Also, what is the primary heating system size in BTU output?

 

[NHbeechfired]

What are the options for locating this stove and how open is that area to the rest of the house? How close is it to the stairwell?

Also, what is the primary heating system size in BTU output?

The stove is going in the kitchen which is open to the family room . theres a bathroom just off the kitchen towards the front of the home. Opposite the bathroom is a front Parlor that we don't use much, there's a fireplace in that room that the missus has taken a shine to and doesn't want to install a stove or insert in it. The 4 flues in the home run in a big central masonry chimney that is between the kitchen and the front parlor. The front door and stairs are at the front end of the parlor across the hallway that runs from the kitchen. the distance to the stairs from the hearth in the chimney is about 20-25 feet.

The main central heat in the house is a system 2000 oil fired forced hot water with 4 zones, i'm not sure of the BTU's but its sufficient to heat the home comfortably, I just don't want to keep sending large checks to the oil company when i have 15 acres of woods that i can cut wood from for free. One of the previous owners ( who presently lives just down the road) had a wood fired furnace in the basement that is no longer here, the flue that serviced that is still there but its capped im not sure of its condition but looking at the cap im going to guess there's a stainless liner. The 2 flues for the cook stove and the fire place have been re lined in the last 2 years, stainless for both. the flue for the system 2000 was previously re lined with stainless, not sure of how long ago. the front parlor, kitchen and family room all have ceiling fans to help circulate the air, if its helpful i can post some pictures.

 

[begreen]

By the description it doesn't sound like the parlor will get much heat from a kitchen stove. Is that right?

Usually, once a wood cookstove has been running for several hours it's a nice source of heat, but apparently not here so I'm trying to figure out an appropriate stove size and whether it will be also heating upstairs. How large of an area will the stove be heating on the first floor and where are the stairs located in relation to the new stove location.

 

[NHbeechfired]

By the description it doesn't sound like the parlor will get much heat from a kitchen stove. Is that right?

Usually, once a wood cookstove has been running for several hours it's a nice source of heat, but for some reason not so here. I'm trying to figure out an appropriate stove size and whether it will be also heating upstairs. How large of an area will the stove be heating on the first floor and where are the stairs located in relation to the new stove location.

The wood cook stove does Ok but you've got to be diligent to keep it fed. You cant put enough wood into it to get much more than an hour out of it even when you shut the air all the way down. its not at all air tight and was never intended to be so i think this is about as good as we are going to get from this old gal. having to load through the lift out holes really limits the size of the splits you can feed so if you cant really load it up and go about your business. we love the ambiance it lends to the kitchen but its really not on par with a real stove.

the kitchen / family room is the main area we occupy, the front parlor is where we park the christmas tree and other than that we don't really use that room much. it is going to be tough to get much heat in here, theres 2 doorways into the hall that comes from the kitchen so forced circulation is probably going to be required.Id like to get some heat upstairs but i'm trying to be realistic in my expectations given the layout of the house. In the past we've used the small circulator fans mounted to the top of door frames to push air from the room where the stove was to where the heat was needed although i never thought they did much. overall the house is 2200ish square feet, and well insulated. the ground floor is probably 65% of the total area of the home.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like a stove from 2.0 to 3.0 cu ft range will get the job done. The smaller stove will be working harder in very cold weather and may need refilling in 4 hrs where a stove with a larger firebox may to 6-8 hrs in very cold weather. In milder weather, this could extend to 8-12 hrs between reloading. Or with some cats, double that.
What is more important, aesthetics or getting a stove soon? Stoves are going quickly at this time of the year and there is a limited supply. A Jotul F55 would work well, and so would a Pacific Energy T5 or T6. What stoves have you looked at?

 

[NHbeechfired]

It sounds like a stove from 2.0 to 3.0 cu ft range will get the job done. The smaller stove will be working harder in very cold weather and may need refilling in 4 hrs where a stove with a larger firebox may to 6-8 hrs in very cold weather. In milder weather, this could extend to 8-12 hrs between reloading. Or with some cats, double that.
What is more important, aesthetics or getting a stove soon? Stoves are going quickly at this time of the year and there is a limited supply. A Jotul F55 would work well, and so would a Pacific Energy T5 or T6. What stoves have you looked at?

We havent been to look yet, our daughters wedding was yesterday and that has taken up any spare time and a lot that wasn't spare.... I want a stove this season, as i mentioned in an earlier post I'll buy a used one just for the season and then buy the stove we decide on if we are unable to get one this year. We've looked a bit on line and we like the look of the F500 F 600 stoves. There's a gas fired Jotul 3 in the family room thats green enamel and when i saw the Jotul 12 Firelight yesterday and showed to to my wife she liked it and the fact that it matched the gas fireplace in the family room. Stoves we like are woodstock fireview, and progress hybrid, the Vermont Castings defiant and encore have a very similar style to the jotul's so im sure my wife would be fine with those. The Hearthstone mansfield and heritage(? ) i like and i think i could get my wife onboard with those but i dont think shes as into those as i am. I also like the Hearthstone manchester, the ones we like are the more traditional stoves with a little more detail on the exterior and doors. theres about 10 stove shops with in 30 minutes of here theres lopi, napolean, hampton regency, jotul, vermont castings, PE, blaze king is a little further but im pretty sure if you can name it i can find a dealer close by. whether they have stock is the next question.

 

[NHbeechfired]

im attaching a PDF of the layout of our ground floor

 

[EbS-P]

the guy is asking 1900

He might get it this year. This summer I was shopping in the Portland to Portsmouth to Conway area and F500s lasted a couple days at 1000$. ones at 1500$ weren’t moving in the two week when were there. I drove all the way to Freeport to look at an F400 which had been left out in the rain after the pictures were taken, for the seller not to budge when I offered him 600$. Yes he wanted 1000$ for a 15 year old rusty (it was just surface rust) stove. And I quote ” the the retired ministers took excellent care of it.“ (they did until you left it in the rain after you posted to adds).

Is there a known shortage of stoves this year

Covid plus new tax credit plus price of steel and gas are up. Some big Manufacturers had committed their entire 2021 production by august or September. It’s not a normal year.

how Much seasoned firewood do have now? I ask because new epa stove really need dry, 20 % or less moisture content, wood. Speakiing from experience it really sucks to get a brand new enamel finished Jotul that won‘t keep a fire going or heat because your wood is too wet.

 

[71montess]

Don’t forget , you have hot water heat pipes and if you use wood to heat in any one zone , those pipes must be protected from freezing As that zone will never come on with the wood stove heating the room.
im a plumber so I’ve seen it.

 

[NHbeechfired]

He might get it this year. This summer I was shopping in the Portland to Portsmouth to Conway area and F500s lasted a couple days at 1000$. ones at 1500$ weren’t moving in the two week when were there. I drove all the way to Freeport to look at an F400 which had been left out in the rain after the pictures were taken, for the seller not to budge when I offered him 600$. Yes he wanted 1000$ for a 15 year old rusty (it was just surface rust) stove. And I quote ” the the retired ministers took excellent care of it.“ (they did until you left it in the rain after you posted to adds).

Covid plus new tax credit plus price of steel and gas are up. Some big Manufacturers had committed their entire 2021 production by august or September. It’s not a normal year.

how Much seasoned firewood do have now? I ask because new epa stove really need dry, 20 % or less moisture content, wood. Speakiing from experience it really sucks to get a brand new enamel finished Jotul that won‘t keep a fire going or heat because your wood is too wet.

I'm starting to keep an eye on the cost of used stoves posted on marketplace and craigslist, there's some that are priced low enough to make you wonder whats wrong with it and then i see the same model and wonder why would i pay that when a new one is just a few hundred more..... I guess with covid around everything is screwed up.

I have about 3 cord of ash, beech and a little oak mixed in that i put up last year, I typically cut next years wood each fall. Ive started to put up next years already, we have a couple more ash trees that are standing dead that have to comoe down that will get put up for next year and the electric company is going to come up our road and trim around the power lines. They've marked dozens of trees for felling along the road and I'll grab as much of that as i can that the neighbors dont want. the AshBorers have killed a lot of ash trees around here so theres a lot to be burned.

 

[NHbeechfired]

Don’t forget , you have hot water heat pipes and if you use wood to heat in any one zone , those pipes must be protected from freezing As that zone will never come on with the wood stove heating the room.
im a plumber so I’ve seen it.

Thanks for the reminder, I've thawed a few frozen pipes and replaced a few burst sections over the years.

 

[begreen]

I can't recommend the F500v3 right now. We need to see if Jotul has a good fix for the catalyst issue. The F55 is a castiron jacketed, non-cat. The VC stoves are good looking but they will be higher maintenance over the years.

Don’t forget , you have hot water heat pipes and if you use wood to heat in any one zone , those pipes must be protected from freezing As that zone will never come on with the wood stove heating the room.
im a plumber so I’ve seen it.

Also true for forced air systems where the thermostat never calls for heat and the basement gets below freezing near the perimeter sill. When it's very cold it's a good idea to cycle the central heat once in a while. A remote thermometer with an alarm set to 35º is also a good idea.

 

[NHbeechfired]

Thanks be green! I’m trying to return catering items and rented tents tables chairs etc today and I’m currently on the side of the highway with a blown out trailer tire on my brother in laws trailer. While I’m waiting for a spare to be delivered I’m researching wood stoves on the internet!!

Too bad about the current f500’s there’s a decent looking used one on Craigslist an hour or so from here that looks ok. It needs new fire brick but otherwise looks fine. It say 2008 on the nameplate . We’re those not cat, secondary air tube stove then??

I always regarded Vermont castings as good stoves, I’m learning they went sideways on their quality a while ago, how long ago was that? And are they still of dubious repute? I did look at the PE T 5 those might fit nicely if I can get my wife to agree. Style is important as this is I. The kitchen and we don’t want to have an unattractive stove there. And she gets to decide on style issues, I just do the heavy lifting!

 

[EbS-P]

We’re those not cat, secondary air tube stove then??

Yes no cat. V3 has the cat came out in 2020.

 

[begreen]

The 2008 F500 did not have a cat. It's a tube stove. It's a good heater, just be sure the left side has at least 16" clearance or better for sideloading. One thing to be careful about on a used one is cracks, especially on the base surrounding the grate. This usually is evidence of a leaky ash pan door gasket or someone continually opening the ash pan door for startup air. The base needs to be replaced in this case which is costly. This is what the cracks look like:

 

[peakbagger]

Vermont Castings are problematical, the original ones (getting close to 40 years ago) were some of the most efficient stoves sold 40 years ago (which wasnt saying much). They had some early production issues but fixed them and made it right for those with the "bad" ones but at some point the original owners sold out to a long line of different firms trading on the past reputation. The new owners guessed poorly on future technology. They got the reputation that the internals were fragile and they were expensive to rebuild. Even one of the old "good ones" are less efficient than the new EPA stoves you can buy at Home Depot. The big difference is an old VC will run with marginally dry wood at low efficiency, a modern EPA stove will not.

If you haven't looked at Woodstock Stove made in VT take a look at them, they are super efficient but the styling is love or hate.

 

[NHbeechfired]

If you haven't looked at Woodstock Stove made in VT take a look at them, they are super efficient but the styling is love or hate.

We have looked at the Woodstock stoves. In fact I called them last week to see how long to get. Stove and they told me best case would be february. Now I’m looking at used fireview stoves now, there’s several close by and my wife loves the style. I talked to Woodstock again today and they still build all the model 205 stoves so all the parts are still in production and she said most of the commonly needed ones are in stock. The best thing is a real person answered and we chatted and she told me what to check for on used stoves to make sure I wasn’t buying someone else’s problem. They seem like a company I would enjoy doing business with, plus i can drive to their shop in about 45 minutes!

 

[NHbeechfired]

We have looked at the Woodstock stoves. In fact I called them last week to see how long to get. Stove and they told me best case would be february. Now I’m looking at used fireview stoves now, there’s several close by and my wife loves the style. I talked to Woodstock again today and they still build all the model 205 stoves so all the parts are still in production and she said most of the commonly needed ones are in stock. The best thing is a real person answered and we chatted and she told me what to check for on used stoves to make sure I wasn’t buying someone else’s problem. They seem like a company I would enjoy doing business with, plus i can drive to their shop in about 45 minutes!

SOOOOO me and my wife have decided that we really like the woodstock stoves. We have been looking at all the used fireview stoves near us and after speaking to the sellers and comparing the pictures they have shared to the exploded diagrams of the stoves on Woodstock's webpage it seems that they are all in need of a lot of work. One was a 201 and it had nothing inside, no baffle no catalyst, no bypass damper just a hollow box to build a fire in. Another was a 205 that needed a full rebuild, the combustor pan is warped and im sure the cat needs replacing. It seems to me that by the time you get the parts paid for and consider what your time is worth its smart money to spend more and get a new one. the combustor pans are 3-4 weeks away from being available and that is if all goes as planned and ive been told that if i put a deposit now it will be february before i got a stove.

SO in light of this i'm wondering if anyone can show me why id be better off to just buy a used stove and do the rebuild ( im well equipped to do it and i have no problem with doing it), theres one more used fireview 205 near me that im waiting for the seller to get back to me so that may be in better condition. id hate to buy the stove needing work and find i'm jammed up waiting for parts.

The next question id like to pose is given what i described above regarding the home im trying to heat is there any reason not to buy the new progress hybrid, its a few hundred more but we both like the look and it seems to be very well regarded, My only concern is that it may be too big and drive us out of the kltchen.

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[begreen]

Mostly it's a question of time and what they have in stock for stoves and for parts.

 

[NHbeechfired]

In your experience is a properly refurbished stove comparable to a new one? Im sure i can do as good a job as anyone but shelling out 500-800 in parts on top of a purchase of around 1000 ( thats the asking price around here) makes me think that I'd be close enough to the after rebate cost of a new one to just live with the old stove until they can deliver a new one.