Looking to upgrade my fireplace and heat w/ wood

[Solarity]

I live in a 1979 colonial w/ about 1624ft^2 and a basement that has the same footprint of the floors above. The basement does have about 200-300ft^2 of condition vented space. The house is very insulated with batts in the walls, a couple feet of insulation on the attic with Anderson Windows that can't be over 10 years old. We are all electric, but we do have a propane fireplace, that I hate (mainly because of the supplier is horrible). We use a heat pump for primary heat w/ electric strips for auxiliary heat. Our electric is very cheap, though a cold winter can make our a monthly bill go from $75/month to $300. While it will take me a long time to pay off the fire place as our house is well insulated and electricity is cheap, there are two other reasons.

1) I love fire
2) If we have an outage in winter, I would like to have an alternative source of heat.

With that in mind I am thinking of ripping out our current fire place and having rebuilt from a 2 sided fire place:

To one that looks more like: http://cornerfireplaceideas.com/stone/traditional-corner-stone-fireplace-designs/

I was recommended this forum from the diychatroom and it looks like a good place to start. I have looked at a couple places online and locally and I see the fire places starting at ~$2,000 and going up to close to $5,000. I don't know if it would be possible to get a fire place remodeled, an insert, and a liner for under $5,000. We are also wanting something that is rather flush with the area around it and doesn't look like a stove just put into the fireplace.

I do find it fascinating that some fireplaces can be attached to your forced air heating system to distribute the heat to all over the house and that some can take outside air to use for combustion. If I can get something that does that I don't mind spending a bit more for it.

For the size and insulating value of my house, would you happen to have a suggestion on a good high efficiency fire place that would meet our needs?

I will keep looking over the site.

Thanks in advance,

Solarity

 

[begreen]

Welcome. If the goal is heat with a nice fire view there are other options, but first we need to know a bit about the current fireplace. Is this a masonry fireplace with a masonry chimney or a prefab with a metal chimney? Would you be opposed to just installing a wood burning insert in the current setup if the total cost was under $3000?

 

[mellow]

It will be a total rip out if you have gas currently. I would budget on 6000-8000+ for a total redo if you do it yourself and install a zero clearance fireplace like the Napoleon NZ3000.

 

[Solarity]

The chimney is not masonry, it is wrapped in siding that matches the house and it looks like there is an ~7.5-8" liner that connects to the damper, if I recall from memory.

The fire place is technically a wood burning fire place. The previous owner had it retrofitted for gas. I confirmed this from the firebox manufacture.

I do admit I hate the look of it, it looks like it was almost a last minute thought of the builder.

I was taking a look at the NZ300 as it seems to be able connect to the forced air system and use outside air. Though I can't find many reviews on it and I can't find the efficiency rating. I called a contractor that specializes just in fire places. He works for many of the shops in the areas. He is going to meet in a week to give me an estimate. Do you need a blower to setup like this or can you just attach vent to the return trunk and the other one to the supply? The way the floor joists are setup, I think I could do this easily.

When you say zero clearance doesn't that mean you can put it next to combustible material?

I have remodeled two bathrooms with the help of the contractor. I know how to lay tile and I have wet saw and a cold chisel. My only problem is I am unmotivated to do something by myself and I have limited time. Demo can be easy, if a contractor isn't that bad priced, then I may just go that route. Can anyone do a fireplace or do you need to really be a journeyman mason? I do not want to burn down the house.

Edit: Wow...I just priced out the NZ300 and it looks like from one site it starts out at $5,700, I don't think that even comes with the liner. So $6,500 to have it delivered and it hasn't even been installed. I think I am a little bit sticker shocked.

 

[begreen]

If the place is very well insulated and the new fireplace would be primarily heating the local area, I would go smaller. More like a BIS Traditions CE or maybe the Pacific Energy FP30AR or Hearthstone Montgomery? There is no point in overkill and they are much more affordable.

How large an area is the current fireplace in and on what floor? Is the rest of the house open to this room?

 

[Solarity]

If the place is very well insulated and the new fireplace would be primarily heating the local area, I would go smaller. More like a BIS Traditions CE or maybe the Pacific Energy FP30AR or Hearthstone Montgomery? There is no point in overkill and they are much more affordable.

How large an area is the current fireplace in and on what floor? Is the rest of the house open to this room?

Each floor is about 812ft^2
1st floor: Fire place is located in the north-west corner of the house. The first floor has some walls, but the only door is for closet and bathroom. These walls basicly have an open walk way to the kitchen/family/dinette area (fireplace) to the living room/formal dining room.

2nd floor: The upstairs has 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, and 1 walk-in closet. One bathroom has no register, but we did put in radiant electric floor heat. The walk-in closet is right above the fire place and has part of the floor taken up where the chimney transition from inside the house to the outside.

Basement: 200-300ft^2 finished w/ two registers and 1 return. the fireplace is above the finished basement. I am currently and slowly redoing the basement as I found mold, though that is a different topic.

I wouldn't use the fireplace all the time, I am guessing it would be more for colder months. My wife did grow up with a coal and a wood burning stove.

I will take a look into those suggestions.

 

[begreen]

You're in a cold location, but the good insulation and sealing are working in your favor. I think one of those units might work out well for you, especially if you are not 24/7 heating. RSF also makes some units in the 2-3 cu ft range.

 

[Solarity]

Wow great suggestions, those seem similar to the NZ3000, but half the price 0_o. It seems like the inserts are just meant for a retrofit to an existing fire place and what I am looking for is a full fire place. The inserts seem to offer outside air intake and having venting for HVAC systems to redistribute the air. A fireplace and liner for under $4k would make me happy, would need to see how much it would cost to get a contractor to install it. I know a lot of them will be hungry for work during the winter. It is impossible for me to get anyone to do a small job. Is this something a regular contractor can do, or do I need to get a mason? I am assuming as it is zero clearance the bricks/stone would be more for looks than function fire protection?

 

[begreen]

Correct. You are looking for a zero-clearance fireplace. No masonry involved for the installation, but you do want someone who is neat, detail oriented and can read and follow instructions. Clearances and water sealing are important for a happy install. The stone or brick facade is just cosmetic, but the thickness needs to be taken into account at the planning stage. It could also be tiled or just plain sheetrock depending on the look desired.

 

[begreen]

One option would be to have the dealer install. Another would be to have a certified installer install the unit. Here is is a resource for finding one:
(broken link removed to http://www.nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-4.html)

 

[Solarity]

I uploaded the picture for my chimney. Any idea what a ballpark number for the cost of labor for installing a zero clearance if there is no outside working other than installing the liner and cap? I know two contractors off hand one charges about $25 the other charges about $35 an hour.

Lastly if the price gets to high, should I just seal off the side with bricks and put an insert in? I don't know how good it would look.

Also thank you for the link of people who can do fire places, most of them look like brick/mortar stores though.

 

[DougA]

Don't forget that if you convert back to wood burning, factor in the cost of the wood and the added time it will take for wood to dry properly. Most wood you buy is 'seasoned' and that can mean anything from a few weeks to a few years. More likely, the former. Nothing more disappointing than putting in a new stove and trying to use wood that you thought was dry enough.

 

[Grisu]

Check with the manufacturer of the fireplace you are considering whether dropping a liner down your current chimney is acceptable. Many units require very specific flue systems and will not accept your plan. They may need the current make/model of your chimney to give you a definite answer. I also second DougA's advice of making sure you have dry wood to burn in your new fireplace. Dry meaning internal moisture content of less than 20% usually achieved by splitting and stacking it in a sunny and windy spot for one to three years.

Here is a pic heavy thread from a former member who installed his own ZC fireplace to give you an idea how generally the install will work: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/building-the-hearth-for-my-napoleon-nz3000-what-a-quest.74273/ However, make sure to follow all installation instructions of your new fireplace exactly. Check also with your local building inspector for your local code and with your home insurance whether they are ok with a self-install (if you decide to not hire someone). One budget option for a ZC fireplace is the Flame Monaco.

 

[Solarity]

Thanks for the info about the wood, I split a cord of wood with my neighbor early summer, though I have been using it for my fire pit and have only used about 5-10% of it. It is stacked behind my house slightly under the roof line, though it is on the north side so it doesn't get much sun. Should I store it in my garage, I don't think we have termites up here. I have also seem people build things for their wood or get a rack and cover it with a cover.

Also it is funny you mention Flame Marco, I was looking at the Flame Monaco XTD. I am still about clueless as to why the cost varies so much in these fire places. What I am really looking for:

1) Looks like a fire place, not sticking half way out, etc.
2) Is very efficient. 70%+ at least
3) Can heat whole house, but doesn't make us open our windows in winter.
4) Have the option of plugging it into my direct air system and use outside air.
5) Not cost an arm and a leg.

If the cheap Flame Monaco XTD meets my need, I am wondering why I should go for anything else? I have the feeling I still have a lot to learn.

My current chimney is well north of 6" it looks like it can't be smaller than 8", though it is hard to measure it lol

I looked and my fire place is a Majestic D-282449

 

[bholler]

I cant find the install instructions for that fireplace but I really don't see how you could put an insert in that. Also go with a chimney professional not a gc If a gc paid attention to all of the instructions carefully they could do it but from what i have seen most don't. Especially from guys that low on the pay scale i would be very cautious. I find it is usually cheaper to pay a guy who knows what he is doing more per hour than to pay a guy who has to figure it out while you pay him.