Looks like the Oslo is getting a cat

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,649
central pa
I imagine the loss of a cat won't hamper the hybrid stoves much, unless it was a primarily cat stove before. The BK Bholler mentioned seems like it would only be able to operate about 50% capacity for heat and time.
Most true hybrids would be effected allot as well.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
81,160
South Puget Sound, WA
Yeah this damn new phone auto corrects to crazy stuff that makes no sense at all.
I don't like posting from a phone. It's slower and I have to review each posting for spell check slips. At least the post is editable.
 

KJamesJR

Feeling the Heat
Jan 8, 2018
353
New Hampshire
I got nothing against the EPA until they try telling us we can’t burn anymore, which I don’t think will ever happen.

I think the V3 will be an interesting stove for sure, I just don’t understand why they’d go with a passive cat vs using a bypass. I feel like these cats will fail quite often. Because it’s also a tube stove, the user won’t even be aware of the failure as it will simply operate as a pre 2020 stove would. You could potentially be paying a premium, and I know the V3 will come with a premium price tag, for a feature that doesn’t even last a full season.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,608
Downeast Maine
I got nothing against the EPA until they try telling us we can’t burn anymore, which I don’t think will ever happen.

I think the V3 will be an interesting stove for sure, I just don’t understand why they’d go with a passive cat vs using a bypass. I feel like these cats will fail quite often. Because it’s also a tube stove, the user won’t even be aware of the failure as it will simply operate as a pre 2020 stove would. You could potentially be paying a premium, and I know the V3 will come with a premium price tag, for a feature that doesn’t even last a full season.
A good dealer should be able to make sure the customer knows there's a cat. Some dealers aren't that good as we all know. From what I understand these cats are different than those found in a Woodstock or similar stove. I think they are much larger than an ordinary cat, which also means they might be more expensive.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,608
Downeast Maine
I just read the EPA report on the Jotul website, wow, I see why it is so expensive. The fuel load is very interesting and all loads were over 20% moisture content. I'm not very familiar with the Oslo. What is the giant sheet metal box on the back of the stove?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,649
central pa
I just read the EPA report on the Jotul website, wow, I see why it is so expensive. The fuel load is very interesting and all loads were over 20% moisture content. I'm not very familiar with the Oslo. What is the giant sheet metal box on the back of the stove?
A heat shield to reduce clearances.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,649
central pa
I got nothing against the EPA until they try telling us we can’t burn anymore, which I don’t think will ever happen.

I think the V3 will be an interesting stove for sure, I just don’t understand why they’d go with a passive cat vs using a bypass. I feel like these cats will fail quite often. Because it’s also a tube stove, the user won’t even be aware of the failure as it will simply operate as a pre 2020 stove would. You could potentially be paying a premium, and I know the V3 will come with a premium price tag, for a feature that doesn’t even last a full season.
That is allot of speculation about a stove we dont really know allot about yet. You may be correct but i think it is way to early to jump to these conclusions.
 
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KJamesJR

Feeling the Heat
Jan 8, 2018
353
New Hampshire
I just read the EPA report on the Jotul website, wow, I see why it is so expensive. The fuel load is very interesting and all loads were over 20% moisture content. I'm not very familiar with the Oslo. What is the giant sheet metal box on the back of the stove?
Where are you seeing a price?
 

jotulguy

Feeling the Heat
Oct 9, 2010
380
central Pa
What if, the folks buying this jotul don’t even want a cat stove? Aren’t interested in doing the work associated with a cat for the sake of slightly lower emissions or that extra hour of supposed burn time. Or, like so many operators, just want to put wood in and burn.

How many of these newly cat infused designs will run pretty dang good with a dead cat? If they do run well with a dead cat, I would expect the majority to be run that way for the majority of their lives.
There will be many offerings in the Jøtul lineup without a combustor.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,412
Philadelphia
How many of these newly cat infused designs will run pretty dang good with a dead cat? If they do run well with a dead cat, I would expect the majority to be run that way for the majority of their lives.
This exactly how I interpreted your earlier post, and I was thinking exactly the same. We replace the cats on our BKs and Woodstock’s because we can directly see and measure their performance loss, in terms of light-off temp, hold time, and (most often) chimney plume. What mechanisms has Jotul included to make it obvious to new customers when their cat is failing? I suspect it won’t be the usual method (plume), as they’ll probably burn reasonably clean with a totally dead cat, just not “2020 level clean”.
 
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KJamesJR

Feeling the Heat
Jan 8, 2018
353
New Hampshire
they’ll probably burn reasonably clean with a totally dead cat, just not “2020 level clean”.
"Jotul was able to combine the best aspects of typical non-catalytic secondary combustion baffle technology and catalytic technology to create a clean burning woodstove that operates without the need for a bypass."

All things remaining equal between the V3 and current F500, it should operate as a typical F500 tube stove at 3.20 gram/hour. However with the addition of a cat (and a large one at that it seems) they may have needed to sacrificed some of the old F500 reburning efficiency to fit the cat within the same footprint. When the cat fails, they may burn worse than 3.20 grams/hour. Best case, they'll burn equally well to the current F500 generation but yeah... you'd never know the cat has expired?

I guess owners will need to be extremely diligent in making sure they're using optimal fuel to get a hot fire going very quickly.
 

EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
Jul 12, 2006
7,263
Schenectady, NY
I'm going to bet there'll be a sentence in the manual that says to periodically inspect the element to ensure optimal performance.

All done. No other worries.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,845
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
This exactly how I interpreted your earlier post, and I was thinking exactly the same. We replace the cats on our BKs and Woodstock’s because we can directly see and measure their performance loss, in terms of light-off temp, hold time, and (most often) chimney plume. What mechanisms has Jotul included to make it obvious to new customers when their cat is failing? I suspect it won’t be the usual method (plume), as they’ll probably burn reasonably clean with a totally dead cat, just not “2020 level clean”.
You wrote it out much better and than I did.

Consider also, how will the operator call in the 3 year minimum federal warranty on a dead cat if there is no apparent evidence of cat failure?

Big cats, and rare cats, are expensive cats. Cats that aren’t bypassed would seem to be more prone to early failure but I’m selfishly hoping that some new tech is introduced that works and we can all someday get good cat stoves that don’t use bypasses.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
81,160
South Puget Sound, WA
What mechanisms has Jotul included to make it obvious to new customers when their cat is failing? I suspect it won’t be the usual method (plume), as they’ll probably burn reasonably clean with a totally dead cat, just not “2020 level clean”.
As noted, not all Jotul stoves will be getting the cat treatment. We will need to wait and see. Perhaps with the larger cat, burning up just the last bits of particulates, their cat may last the mythical 10 yrs? Hopefully Jotul will make inspection and cleaning of the cat straight-forward so that this is a fairly easy process. Stay tuned.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
Jul 12, 2006
7,263
Schenectady, NY
From a legal standpoint, a cat without a bypass is a cat that can't be operated in an incorrect manner. I'd be worried about one becoming a solid block of creosote and killing a family either by blocking a flue or lighting off and causing a chimney to fail.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
81,160
South Puget Sound, WA
Plugging with ash is a possibility, as could be flame impingement damage. We'll see.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,812
Indiana
A good dealer should be able to make sure the customer knows there's a cat. Some dealers aren't that good as we all know. From what I understand these cats are different than those found in a Woodstock or similar stove. I think they are much larger than an ordinary cat, which also means they might be more expensive.
These cats are different indeed. I’m concerned with the cost of replacement. It’s housed in a Skamol box similar to the combustion box on a VC. Not comparing it to it from a durability standpoint, just for reference..
I’m really concerned with the replacement cost of this system. A V3 cat costs 3x more than a standard cat from what I understand and this one is unique, having very large cells.
 
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webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,812
Indiana
No comments on the cost of the V3 cat or the cost of its housing?
 
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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
Jul 12, 2006
7,263
Schenectady, NY
Does anybody know enough about it to do more than speculate?

Maybe they have 4 year olds in China making the assembly and it'll only be $100.
 

webby3650

Master of Fire
Sep 2, 2008
10,812
Indiana
Does anybody know enough about it to do more than speculate?

Maybe they have 4 year olds in China making the assembly and it'll only be $100.
Of course some now more about it...
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
20,649
central pa
I like most people here know very little about it.