Lopi Endeavor 2020 or Hearthstone Green Mountain 60

[rosem]

I'm looking to buy a wood stove that will add supplemental heat to our 2,500 sq/ft. farmhouse. The idea is to burn wood by day to heat the downstairs (1,500 sq/ft?) and potentially heat the upstairs at night. The upstairs is only three bedrooms where my wife and two kids sleep.

The location I'm looking at is the old kitchen which use to have a cookstove. It has a clay-lined chimney that is about 16ft tall from the point of entry through the wall to the chimney. The local shop came and deemed it good for use. The cleanout is in the basement, which is probably 12ft the other direction.

The room is centrally located in the house, just off the stairs. The room also has a ceiling fan right by where the stove would be and two return air ducts on each end. We can control our furnace fan from the same room via the thermostat. Most of the connecting rooms have pocket doors that can be closed at night to help move the warm air upstairs where we're sleeping. Overall it seems like a well-suited place for a woodstove.

The only issue is that we don't have much depth before it starts to block the entry into the living room. I know the protective floor covering will go into the doorway area, but I'm trying to keep the stove as far out of the way as possible. (photo attached).

We currently have fuel oil and I would like to continue to use it. Ideally, I would go through at least one tank (500 gallons) a season to keep the oil fresh and the furnace is a serviceable condition.

The local shop has both the Lopi Endeavor 2020 and the Hearthstone Green Mountain 60 on their showroom floor. The original estimate had the Lopi Endeavor, which I understand is a pretty good stove. Overall my wife isn't crazy about the looks of it, but my issue is that it is pretty deep (24") and requires 6" clearance I believe. I recently found the Green Mountain 60 which is around 18" deep and only requires a 5" clearance. So it would fit much better into the area we have. However, it's a new stove and I can't find much information or reviews on it. Most I find are negative talking about the fire going out when the door is shut. :/

I would get the blower for either one. After a trial year or two of using a wood stove, we plan on making a more dedicated/non-combustible area for it. I would also probably run an outside air duct around that time too, but not to start. For now, we want to keep it pretty basic just to see how much we like/use it.

Give my situation, which wood stove would you go with? Or is there another one that I should be looking at?

 

[webby3650]

The endeavor is a proven workhorse that’s well loved, with a few upgrades for 2020. The green mountain is unproven and has a catalyst that will need periodic replacement, that worries some folks. I prefer a true cat stove, as long as it’s a proven design.

 

[Nigel459]

I'm about to install a Green Mountain 40 in a smallish space I have run a couple of other stoves in. We also chose it for the clearances and aesthetics. If it gets half the burn time or "heat time" it boasts that'll be great.

I'll be sure to post a review of it in a week or so. So far though, wow this thing is built like a tank. Lovely castings, super duper heavy, and that was before the stone was placed in the firebox. I also found those reviews about the fire going out when the door was closed. I also saw one guy follow up by saying the movable UL tag that is clipped to the bottom was completely obstructing the air inlet... well that would do it alright. I can see how that could happen as all air, primary, secondary, and doghouse, goes in through that single hole beside the giant rigid slidey label.

Anyway, might be a little easier for me to be a guinea pig on this one than for you... just wanted to say I went for it and so far it looks good. BUT, we haven't been able to put it to the test quite yet, that'll be next week, so stay tuned if you can.

 

[webby3650]

I'm about to install a Green Mountain 40 in a smallish space I have run a couple of other stoves in. We also chose it for the clearances and aesthetics. If it gets half the burn time or "heat time" it boasts that'll be great.

I'll be sure to post a review of it in a week or so. So far though, wow this thing is built like a tank. Lovely castings, super duper heavy, and that was before the stone was placed in the firebox. I also found those reviews about the fire going out when the door was closed. I also saw one guy follow up by saying the movable UL tag that is clipped to the bottom was completely obstructing the air inlet... well that would do it alright. I can see how that could happen as all air, primary, secondary, and doghouse, goes in through that single hole beside the giant rigid slidey label.

Anyway, might be a little easier for me to be a guinea pig on this one than for you... just wanted to say I went for it and so far it looks good. BUT, we haven't been able to put it to the test quite yet, that'll be next week, so stay tuned if you can.

We look forward to a review next week, and next year..

 

[rosem]

I'm about to install a Green Mountain 40 in a smallish space I have run a couple of other stoves in. We also chose it for the clearances and aesthetics. If it gets half the burn time or "heat time" it boasts that'll be great.

I'll be sure to post a review of it in a week or so. So far though, wow this thing is built like a tank. Lovely castings, super duper heavy, and that was before the stone was placed in the firebox. I also found those reviews about the fire going out when the door was closed. I also saw one guy follow up by saying the movable UL tag that is clipped to the bottom was completely obstructing the air inlet... well that would do it alright. I can see how that could happen as all air, primary, secondary, and doghouse, goes in through that single hole beside the giant rigid slidey label.

Anyway, might be a little easier for me to be a guinea pig on this one than for you... just wanted to say I went for it and so far it looks good. BUT, we haven't been able to put it to the test quite yet, that'll be next week, so stay tuned if you can.

Sounds good! I'm in no rush. Most likely will install it next summer.

For the outdoor air kit. I see that it's a 90-degree elbow. Is that meant to run straight back through the wall then down, instead of through the floor?

 

[webby3650]

Sounds good! I'm in no rush. Most likely will install it next summer.

For the outdoor air kit. I see that it's a 90-degree elbow. Is that meant to run straight back through the wall then down, instead of through the floor?

By next summer you’re options will be better. Seemed like you were wanting to make a choice soon.
The outside air can be taken from below or out the wall in most circumstances.

 

[rosem]

By next summer you’re options will be better. Seemed like you were wanting to make a choice soon.
The outside air can be taken from below or out the wall in most circumstances.

I would buy one tomorrow if I was certain on the performance. I really don't want the Endeavor due to its square size, unless the Green Mountain ends up having poor performance or isn't reliable. I don't mind paying for new cats or parts every few years. I just want it to work.

I'm curious to how much difference in heat you would notice between the two as well. I'll mainly be burning beech (lots of diseased trees here), hard and red maple, and hornbeam (if my chainsaw can handle it without too much hassle).

 

[begreen]

The square size of the Endeavor is a real blessing when you get to running a stove 24/7. It permits N/S loading which allows for fully loading the stove without concern of wood rolling against the glass.

 

[rosem]

The square size of the Endeavor is a real blessing when you get to running a stove 24/7. It permits N/S loading which allows for fully loading the stove without concern of wood rolling against the glass.

What if the average lifespan of an Endeavor before it needs some kind of maintenance?

Also, it's not clear to me if the 2020 Endeavor has any changes other than cosmetics?

 

[webby3650]

What if the average lifespan of an Endeavor before it needs some kind of maintenance?

Also, it's not clear to me if the 2020 Endeavor has any changes other than cosmetics?

There’s no reason for an Endeavor to have an end to useable life really. Steel stoves are almost indestructible, and the wear items aren’t very expensive. They added a bigger door and a grated floor with an ashpan. These are really nice improvements!

 

[rosem]

Reading through the new Endeavor (EPA 2020 Compliant) manual it seems like they increased a lot of the clearances. The reduced back wall clearance is now 9", when it used to be <5". Am I reading this correctly?

(broken link removed to https://www.lopistoves.com/TravisDocs/100-01507.pdf)

Also, I see the ceiling clearance is 18". I was told it was 9" for double-wall by the local shop. I believe I have like 13" to work with. They said they can punch a new hole in the chimney, but I would like to avoid that.

 

[webby3650]

The 18” clearance to the ceiling doesn’t say it’s with double wall. With double wall pipe you would go with the listed clearances from the manufacturer of the pipe you choose.

 

[Nigel459]

We look forward to a review next week, and next year..

Yes, agreed, and good point for the OP: if you want a proven performer, these green mountain stoves have at least a few years to go to be sure.

 

[Nigel459]

I really don't want the Endeavor due to its square size
...

My wife agrees, which is why we have had east-west loaders in the space the GM is going. Lower-profile. E-w typically gives a great fire view, but at the expense of not being able to “just toss in some wood” as easily as in a north-south firebox. Unless it’s a side e-w loader. There are a bunch out there. Regency H300, some Woodstock and hearthstone, Jotul Oslo... If you’re burning 24-7, reloading regularly, it makes life much easier putting wood “straight in” the door.

Sounds like you are in no rush. That is good. And you’re looking for supplemental heat. There are many options out there, keep learning and I’m sure you’ll find the right stove for you.

First thing is first: don’t forget the dry wood. No modern stove will do well without it.

 

[rosem]

@Nigel459 Any updates on the Green Mountain 40 install?

 

[Nigel459]

@Nigel459 Any updates on the Green Mountain 40 install?

Hey! Yes we have had maybe a dozen fires in it now.

I'll post more after a bit longer but I will say... I'm really liking it so far. I haven't stuffed it completely full or burned 24/7 yet due to timing and weather but I believe the advertised burn times--16hrs for its 1.3cf box, seems crazy!--are not too exaggerated or impossible. I've loaded it maybe half full with a few medium splits before bed on some coals a couple of times and it easily went overnight like 10pm to 7am with coals to easily relight. I used our key damper to achieve low-and-slow, but cat stayed active beautifully, with occasional wispy secondaries. It is a tank for a small stove at 460lbs including soapstone liner inside, which I think definitely helps.

- I wish you could see the cat better like on my BK. Not that seeing the cat glow really means too much but it is nice confirmation that things are running "as they should" sometimes. The cat on the GM is hidden above the baffle. I could make out the glow once when it was in "black box" mode...
- Black box mode means some darkness in the glass corners, not unexpected, burn it off or clean if wanted
- I'm stoked that it can run in black box mode if wanted. We will likely run it that way most of the time. Low btus and long burns work perfectly for the space. We'll crank it up or clean the glass for company hehe
- We love the look of it: really clean, modern lines that fit our space nicely. Small touches like wooden handles help too. High priority was on aesthetics and it does not disappoint. Nice castings, no "backpack" etc...
- I like that the air is one single, easily accessible intake. Peace of mind if things are getting out of hand. It made me nervous that my other "modern" stoves had inaccessible intakes for secondary air, which would be impossible to restrict in an emergency situation.

I remain optimistic that this stove will be a solid performer in the long run. I hope so: other than being a side-loader it ticked all the boxes for our space. Happy to answer any questions!

 

[rosem]

Hey! Yes we have had maybe a dozen fires in it now.

I'll post more after a bit longer but I will say... I'm really liking it so far. I haven't stuffed it completely full or burned 24/7 yet due to timing and weather but I believe the advertised burn times--16hrs for its 1.3cf box, seems crazy!--are not too exaggerated or impossible. I've loaded it maybe half full with a few medium splits before bed on some coals a couple of times and it easily went overnight like 10pm to 7am with coals to easily relight. I used our key damper to achieve low-and-slow, but cat stayed active beautifully, with occasional wispy secondaries. It is a tank for a small stove at 460lbs including soapstone liner inside, which I think definitely helps.

- I wish you could see the cat better like on my BK. Not that seeing the cat glow really means too much but it is nice confirmation that things are running "as they should" sometimes. The cat on the GM is hidden above the baffle. I could make out the glow once when it was in "black box" mode...
- Black box mode means some darkness in the glass corners, not unexpected, burn it off or clean if wanted
- I'm stoked that it can run in black box mode if wanted. We will likely run it that way most of the time. Low btus and long burns work perfectly for the space. We'll crank it up or clean the glass for company hehe
- We love the look of it: really clean, modern lines that fit our space nicely. Small touches like wooden handles help too. High priority was on aesthetics and it does not disappoint. Nice castings, no "backpack" etc...
- I like that the air is one single, easily accessible intake. Peace of mind if things are getting out of hand. It made me nervous that my other "modern" stoves had inaccessible intakes for secondary air, which would be impossible to restrict in an emergency situation.

I remain optimistic that this stove will be a solid performer in the long run. I hope so: other than being a side-loader it ticked all the boxes for our space. Happy to answer any questions!

Nice. How many square feet are you heating with it?

 

[moresnow]

@Nigel459 Have you got a running update thread going? I'd be interested in following your progress with this. Any comparison's to your BK yet? Curious.

 

[rosem]

I ended up buying a Jotul F 55 today. I'm probably going to wait until this spring/summer to hook it up. I want to put a SS liner in and few other things. Getting on the roof right now isn't easy — lots of rain and snow lately.

It will be nice to have it to get the exact placement, floor protection, etc... ready. I wanted to pick it up before it was gone because of the new 2020 EPA requirements.

Now I just need to drive 8 hours from Michigan to Pennslyvania to pick it up.

I'm still very curious to hear about the Green Mountain 60 though. Most of the dealers I talked too haven't been too excited about it. Two have mentioned that they don't think it gets enough air.

 

[begreen]

I ended up buying a Jotul F 55 today. I'm probably going to wait until this spring/summer to hook it up. I want to put a SS liner in and few other things. Getting on the roof right now isn't easy — lots of rain and snow lately.

Congratulations. These stoves are getting hard to find with the upcoming 2020 changes. They're nicely made and strong heaters.

 

[rosem]

Congratulations. These stoves are getting hard to find with the upcoming 2020 changes. They're nicely made and strong heaters.

Thanks! Do you know what size logs will go NS in it?

 

[begreen]

Some reports were 18" but I haven't verified. 16" would be a safe size. You could start a post asking F55 owners.

 

[Boater]

Congratulations. These stoves are getting hard to find with the upcoming 2020 changes. They're nicely made and strong heaters.

You did good, I’m in Arkansas and the only dealer near me quoted $4300 for a Jotul Oslo V3. And I still haven’t settled on a stove for our new house!

 

[rosem]

You did good, I’m in Arkansas and the only dealer near me quoted $4300 for a Jotul Oslo V3. And I still haven’t settled on a stove for our new house!

I think I was at ~$4,500 for the F 55, wall thimble, dw pipe, delivery and installation.

They quoted the F 55 at $2,830 (w/ tax) because they didn't have one in stock. Apparently Jotul is doing one more run before the end of the year due to popular demand. I would have received it in mid to late January.

I found a shop in Pennsylvania that had two in stock and got one for $1850 (no tax) instead.

Probably going to put the money saved towards a SS liner as my clay tile chimney has some combustibles near it like our exterior trim.

 

[Boater]

I think I was at ~$4,500 for the F 55, wall thimble, dw pipe, delivery and installation.

They quoted the F 55 at $2,830 (w/ tax) because they didn't have one in stock. Apparently Jotul is doing one more run before the end of the year due to popular demand. I would have received it in mid to late January.

I found a shop in Pennsylvania that had two in stock and got one for $1850 (no tax) instead.

Probably going to put the money saved towards a SS liner as my clay tile chimney has some combustibles near it like our exterior trim.

The quote I got was for the stove only with me picking it up at the store. But there is no competition to speak of so I can somewhat understand the higher prices.