Madison runs hot.

[lsucet]

Also starting this thing is a nightmare does not seem to really draft well and is hard to get going. I have to leave the door open for 10 or so minutes. If I shut the door fire dies. I almost feel like the doghouse air supply is not big enough for startup. A point source air inlet kind of seems a little weird compared to other stoves.

Remember you have the baffle on top of the tubes and heat is not heating the flue directly. it can be normal to take that long to establish draft. I remember going thru that when i was using it. i will installed back for next winter on another hearth to assist the other stove when real cold outside. I really like the Madison and the AAS works good if you reload and temp are around 200 to 250 stove top. for me hotter than that on reload didn't work right the AAS. if reload at lowest temp, let the door crack for a few minutes till load catch, closed door and burn for a few minutes, set the AAS, done.

Five minutes later or so I can hear the click of the AAS. To get draft quickly from cold start, what work best for me was top/down fire with air space between the wood for a quick hot burn and i use to get draft quicker that way.

 

[mncvy99]

Remember you have the baffle on top of the tubes and heat is not heating the flue directly. it can be normal to take that long to establish draft. I remember going thru that when i was using it. i will installed back for next winter on another hearth to assist the other stove when real cold outside. I really like the Madison and the AAS works good if you reload and temp are around 200 to 250 stove top. for me hotter than that on reload didn't work right the AAS. if reload at lowest temp, let the door crack for a few minutes till load catch, closed door and burn for a few minutes, set the AAS, done.

Five minutes later or so I can hear the click of the AAS. To get draft quickly from cold start, what work best for me was top/down fire with air space between the wood for a quick hot burn and i use to get draft quicker that way.

I think for me I will have to try the top down fire method later today when I get home. I like the AAS feature and like the click that it makes when it goes off, one of the main reasons I bought the stove (make me more comfortable if my wife loads it when I am not home). I think the key with this stove is going to be really good dry wood. When I reload at like 250/300 it catches and burns nicely. I know a lot of air comes through the top with the air wash as well. I basically have 54 inches of double wall expanding flue pipe off the stove, going straight up into a ceiling support box and 10 feet of duratech double wall Class A pipe and a chimney cap with spark arrestor. I think too that since I am new to the stove I have not had a chance to run it 24/7 yet. This is the first week of running it when I get home from work. This weekend I will try to run it 24/7 and load it up and try to get a night of burn time out of it. I am just afraid to overload it and get overheated

 

[begreen]

It's great that the flue goes straight up. Good plan to wait until the weekend when you can try the next burn under relaxed conditions. It takes some practice with a new stove to learn the best starting and operational techniques. Next fire try burning 6-7 medium sized splits. To avoid overheating the stove, watch the fire. Once it starts burning robustly, start closing down the air in increments. Maybe try about 50% closed at first and then wait and see how the fire responds. If the flames don't slow down, close the air off a bit more. If the fire dies down so much that the flame is very weak, then open it up a little. Then let the fire regain strength over the next 5-10 minutes. Once it is strong, close down the air until the flames get lazy again.

 

[Woody Stover]

I have a bad smoke issue when first starting the stove in the mornings; and even with a huge bed of hot coals, I place new wood in and it starts smoking out the door before I can finish loading....I do have an out the wall chimney with a 90 elbow inside. England Stove Works told me that the required 15 feet of chimney is measured from the cap to the floor and I do have that.

Also starting this thing is a nightmare does not seem to really draft well and is hard to get going.

Do you start fires bottom-up or top-down? I do top-down and find it works very well with the Madison, which means my large stuff is at the bottom and the smaller kindling is up top;

That's one of the problems with not having a bypass...if your draft is a little weak due to a chimney that's not ideal, smoke may roll out of the box when reloading since draft is weaker. I think a top-down start may help here as well.

To get draft quickly from cold start, what work best for me was top/down fire with air space between the wood for a quick hot burn and i use to get draft quicker that way.

There's less smoke with a top-down, what smoke there is will be in the top of the box, and the heat will be created in the top of the box, not underneath a big pile of wood, so it should heat up the inner top of the firebox and the flue quicker, creating a stronger draft, sooner.
woodirl, I'm not sure how often you load on coals, but you might try burning them down before reloading, then shove what's left to the back and start a top-down fire to prevent smoke roll-out. Sure, it's more hassle than just tossing more wood on the coals, but it might be worth it in order to prevent smoke in the room.

2. Eco-fan pointing AT the flue pipe - this really seems to help a lot, reduce the draft a bit

Great idea, never heard that one before. I guess it wouldn't help much if you had double-wall connector...

 

[spirilis]

I guess it wouldn't help much if you had double-wall connector...

Yeah that option definitely isn't available here... or won't be as effective anyhow

 

[mncvy99]

It's great that the flue goes straight up. Good plan to wait until the weekend when you can try the next burn under relaxed conditions. It takes some practice with a new stove to learn the best starting and operational techniques. Next fire try burning 6-7 medium sized splits. To avoid overheating the stove, watch the fire. Once it starts burning robustly, start closing down the air in increments. Maybe try about 50% closed at first and then wait and see how the fire responds. If the flames don't slow down, close the air off a bit more. If the fire dies down so much that the flame is very weak, then open it up a little. Then let the fire regain strength over the next 5-10 minutes. Once it is strong, close down the air until the flames get lazy again.

Thanks for the advise, last night I tried a top down fire, worked horrible. I am under the conclusion that the "seasoned" wood I bought is wet, as I have hissing when it begins to burn. 180 for a cord seasoned verses 330 for a cord of kiln dried. Lesson learned. Dried birch burns really nicely. The thing that bothers me with this stove is that I do not feel I have a lot of control with the damper. My friends stove has tremendous control with his lever.

Ok moment of truth, lots of pictures. This was last night after our 14 inch blizzard in NY. 12 degrees outside after I came home from work. 5 logs, I had damper all the way out to low, had vigorous flames going on and temp rising. Wife is happy now as you can see the thermostat.

 

[lsucet]

Thanks for the advise, last night I tried a top down fire, worked horrible. I am under the conclusion that the "seasoned" wood I bought is wet, as I have hissing when it begins to burn. 180 for a cord seasoned verses 330 for a cord of kiln dried. Lesson learned. Dried birch burns really nicely. The thing that bothers me with this stove is that I do not feel I have a lot of control with the damper. My friends stove has tremendous control with his lever.

Ok moment of truth, lots of pictures. This was last night after our 14 inch blizzard in NY. 12 degrees outside after I came home from work. 5 logs, I had damper all the way out to low, had vigorous flames going on and temp rising. Wife is happy now as you can see the thermostat.

It can take you a few times to get the hang of the top down fire. the key is lots of small pieces on top with newspaper or super cedar. you can put some big pieces in the bottom but the point is to establish draft quicker,start getting some heat quicker and create a nice bed of coals, that way the reload with big pieces catch fast and you can set everything for a long run. Of course if wood is not dry, can give you hard time one way or the other. Like i said the key is small/skinny pieces at first, create a bed of coal and do like a hot reload on those coals with big pieces. including that helps if your wood is not at low MC.
When secondaries take place you will gain higher temp for awhile. you will learn when to start cutting air back to have a little more control but at those outside temp and a good install like it looks you have, draft will be good. you will have a little of hell in there for sure. But give you some time to learn to operate it at you location and setup. same stove in different places and setup will work different.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the advise, last night I tried a top down fire, worked horrible. I am under the conclusion that the "seasoned" wood I bought is wet, as I have hissing when it begins to burn. 180 for a cord seasoned verses 330 for a cord of kiln dried. Lesson learned. Dried birch burns really nicely. The thing that bothers me with this stove is that I do not feel I have a lot of control with the damper. My friends stove has tremendous control with his lever.

Ok moment of truth, lots of pictures. This was last night after our 14 inch blizzard in NY. 12 degrees outside after I came home from work. 5 logs, I had damper all the way out to low, had vigorous flames going on and temp rising. Wife is happy now as you can see the thermostat.

Every setup is unique. You will get better at this and will become a very savvy wood buyer too. We have all had to start out like this at some point.

Comparisons to other's stoves often if fruitless as their setup is different. What make/model is your friends stove?

 

[lsucet]

Hi, I have a question about Englander AC-30 blower option for the Madison. If somebody is using it, can i have some information?
How it perform? How loud compare to the AC-16? it distribute air better? I am asking in this thread cause is about the Madison somehow and is the stove that i am going to install back again but on a different hearth. For me the blower that came with it is too noisy, that's the reason looking into the update one.
Any help will be appreciated.

 

[Woody Stover]

Hi, I have a question about Englander AC-30 blower option for the Madison. If somebody is using it, can i have some information?
How it perform? How loud compare to the AC-16? it distribute air better? I am asking in this thread cause is about the Madison somehow and is the stove that i am going to install back again but on a different hearth. For me the blower that came with it is too noisy, that's the reason looking into the update one.

Hover over "forums" above and use the search...should turn up some feedback. But IIRC, it's quieter and moves more air as well...

 

[spirilis]

Hi, I have a question about Englander AC-30 blower option for the Madison. If somebody is using it, can i have some information?
How it perform? How loud compare to the AC-16? it distribute air better? I am asking in this thread cause is about the Madison somehow and is the stove that i am going to install back again but on a different hearth. For me the blower that came with it is too noisy, that's the reason looking into the update one.
Any help will be appreciated.

Much quieter, seems to move more air. There is one quirk I encounter, sometimes an odd "vibration" builds up, like a resonant vibration in the rear heat shield that it's attached to... hard to describe, it'll be almost whisper quiet and then this metallic vibration sound starts building up until a certain point, then it might subside (or I smack the back heat shield or push down on it from above, and the noise stops). I found loosening the lower screws securing the rear heat shield helped dampen that out a bit. I wonder if some sort of silicone rubber spacer installed in the blower's mounting points or the heat shield's mounting points would help prevent that.

Overall if you're unhappy with the stock AC-16 blower, you will be happy with the AC-30. It's a nice fan.

 

[lsucet]

Thank you all for the input, I appreciated. I will be going that route then with the AC-30.

 

[Sagitta]

Chiming in as I'm awaiting delivery on my Summers Heat rebrand of this stove. I'm hoping its what we need for our home to offset the insane heating cill we've been seeing the past winter. We've basically been running space heaters and a propane burner since we picked the house up last spring - it was cheap because someone had gutted the electric and heat systems. We took care of the electric, then ran out of $$$ to deal with the heat.

The house has an absolutely gorgeous hearth in it, as whoever built the place back in 1925 obviously was intending to heat the entire place with wood. The now-gutted oil heat was an afterthought.

I live in Maine, so its obviously going to (hopefully) see a lot of use in the future. I'm a complete novice at the whole wood burning thing so I'll probably be popping up with stupid questions from time to time.

For now, we have to wait on someone to come out and clean and pipe the chimney - whoever had the place before us somehow managed NOT to burn the place down despite there being (literally) 3 inches of creosote caking the inside of the chimney. Its an 8 or 10 inch flue and I don't think I can even fit my hand up inside whats left of an opening in there. on the bright side, there obviously hasn't been a chimney fire so hopefully the lining is still intact and won't need replacing. Its so plugged I don't even have a cap on the hole, despite us hitting temps close to -20 a few times so far this winter. The cold simply isn't making it past the creosote plugging the shaft.

Here's a shot of the hearth which will hopefully be put to proper use within the next few weeks. That stove is going to look *nice* on it.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hello neighbor . . . well you're a couple towns over from me . . . close enough when it comes to Maine to being called a neighbor. Welcome to Hearth.com.

 

[brenndatomu]

Its an 8 or 10 inch flue

Have your chimney guy check things out real close, but I'd bet you need to have an insulated SS liner put in.
Two reasons...
1. Just looking at the way that chimney is built I bet the "clearance to combustibles" requirement is not met.
2. The Madison needs a 6" flue.
A 6" insulated liner solves both issues
Is that built on a slab? If not, then look at how the hearth is built too...you might possibly need to deal with "CTC" issues there too...hopefully not.

 

[spirilis]

Have your chimney guy check things out real close, but I'd bet you need to have an insulated SS liner put in.
Two reasons...
1. Just looking at the way that chimney is built I bet the "clearance to combustibles" requirement is not met.
2. The Madison needs a 6" flue.
A 6" insulated liner solves both issues
Is that built on a slab? If not, then look at how the hearth is built too...you might possibly need to deal with "CTC" issues there too...hopefully not.

Luckily the Madison is ember protection only, so the hearth is probably OK. The bottom of the stove is a big removable ash pan + air intake chamber (outdoor air kit pipes directly into the back of the pedestal) so it stays cool to the touch.

 

[Sagitta]

The hearth is 6 feet wide by 5 feet deep (minus 18 inches for the chimney) built on a double layer of brick. When we had our quote the pro who came out to inspect things said, "Yea, you should be able to take anything on that" so I *hope* I'm good.

 

[mncvy99]

OK, I have a new question / concern. I cut down an Ash Tree this weekend as I needed wood, and the ah have been dead for a long time. I got some super nice dry wood. I burned it and it caught fire super nice, clean and hot burns. so for the night I loaded 6 pieces into the hot stove at about 300 degrees, put the air lever on low, and went to shower and go to bed. About 40 minutes later , the fire was fully engulfed, stove racing to 850 degrees, so signs of slowing down. Clearly over firing pushing 911thoughts in my head. temps reached 900. I tried cutting all air sources I could such as the hole underneath where the doghouse is, etc. No luck. I even thought of removing wood, but that would be super dangerous. So I sat watching with a fan blowing on unit to cool it down and a 20lb ABC fire extinguisher next to me. Next morning I ordered 2 Rutland fire suppressant sticks. Looking for thoughts on what happened or what to do. I feel I have no control over the air settings in the stove and even on low, the fire was raging

 

[spirilis]

OK, I have a new question / concern. I cut down an Ash Tree this weekend as I needed wood, and the ah have been dead for a long time. I got some super nice dry wood. I burned it and it caught fire super nice, clean and hot burns. so for the night I loaded 6 pieces into the hot stove at about 300 degrees, put the air lever on low, and went to shower and go to bed. About 40 minutes later , the fire was fully engulfed, stove racing to 850 degrees, so signs of slowing down. Clearly over firing pushing 911thoughts in my head. temps reached 900. I tried cutting all air sources I could such as the hole underneath where the doghouse is, etc. No luck. I even thought of removing wood, but that would be super dangerous. So I sat watching with a fan blowing on unit to cool it down and a 20lb ABC fire extinguisher next to me. Next morning I ordered 2 Rutland fire suppressant sticks. Looking for thoughts on what happened or what to do. I feel I have no control over the air settings in the stove and even on low, the fire was raging

Block the outdoor air kit hole in the back. My strategy during overfire is to point my eco-fan at the fluepipe and turn the blower on high (with damper pulled all the way out i.e. shut down) and those together work well (definitely under control within 10min)... but if you need to slow it down in a darned hurry, atmospheric pollution be damned, block the hole in the back of the pedestal.

 

[mncvy99]

Block the outdoor air kit hole in the back. My strategy during overfire is to point my eco-fan at the fluepipe and turn the blower on high (with damper pulled all the way out i.e. shut down) and those together work well (definitely under control within 10min)... but if you need to slow it down in a darned hurry, atmospheric pollution be damned, block the hole in the back of the pedestal.

The hole in the back (fresh air kit) is not connected. And all it does is bring fresh air into the 1/2" hole that feeds the doghouse. I have double wall pipe so could not even cool off the smoke pipe. Blower was on Hi, and I placed a house fan on high to blow on the whole stove. Had the damper pulled all the way out, and it was still getting a ton of air. I wonder if the damper is not positioned properly. There was no way to smother it. I was about to open the door and throw sand in there or dirt to smother it.

 

[brenndatomu]

OK, I have a new question / concern. I cut down an Ash Tree this weekend as I needed wood, and the ah have been dead for a long time. I got some super nice dry wood. I burned it and it caught fire super nice, clean and hot burns. so for the night I loaded 6 pieces into the hot stove at about 300 degrees, put the air lever on low, and went to shower and go to bed. About 40 minutes later , the fire was fully engulfed, stove racing to 850 degrees, so signs of slowing down. Clearly over firing pushing 911thoughts in my head. temps reached 900. I tried cutting all air sources I could such as the hole underneath where the doghouse is, etc. No luck. I even thought of removing wood, but that would be super dangerous. So I sat watching with a fan blowing on unit to cool it down and a 20lb ABC fire extinguisher next to me. Next morning I ordered 2 Rutland fire suppressant sticks. Looking for thoughts on what happened or what to do. I feel I have no control over the air settings in the stove and even on low, the fire was raging

Door gasket still tight?
Also, check the glass in the door, make sure it is still centered over its gasket. There has been a report on another site of a Madison door glass that is just barely covering its gasket and the cheapo clips that are supposed to hold it in place do not...over time it lets the glass slide down enough to leak (even gap) at the top.
In this case Englander was contacted and last I heard they can't seem to figure out why this particular glass/door is having this issue.

 

[spirilis]

The hole in the back (fresh air kit) is not connected. And all it does is bring fresh air into the 1/2" hole that feeds the doghouse. I have double wall pipe so could not even cool off the smoke pipe. Blower was on Hi, and I placed a house fan on high to blow on the whole stove. Had the damper pulled all the way out, and it was still getting a ton of air. I wonder if the damper is not positioned properly. There was no way to smother it. I was about to open the door and throw sand in there or dirt to smother it.

Not true, it brings in air for the doghouse AND for the primary, secondary air intakes - removing the rear heat shield (requires removing the side shields first), then the (unpainted) shield underneath that--the unpainted heat shield is the primary & secondary air intake plenum and it gets its air from a long rectangular gap just inside the pedestal right above the fresh air inlet.

It's not totally airtight though, but most of the air does come through there.

It's important to mention that the air damper above the door only controls the primary air inlet; there is nothing controlling the secondary air inlet, the only way to choke that is to choke off the fresh air kit inlet on the back of the pedestal (which chokes off doghouse, primary & secondary save for any air that might "leak" into the back inner heat shield)
Aka "Welcome to EPA certified noncatalytic stoves..... where pollution controls take higher priority over safety"

edit: Picture's worth a thousand words:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/20151001_133013_resized_1-jpg.162850/

 

[begreen]

Check the door glass for sealing, especially at the top.

 

[begreen]

The other thing to check is be sure the AAS is working properly. Some of the first models had the thermostat spring reversed. There is an early thread on this by @spirilis I think.