MAJOR CONFUSION

[nancy2u]

I have an old masonry fireplace that I wanted to make efficent with an insert.

I have also just completed an addition that changed the layout of my home to a very large open space with 12 ft ceilings. I love the look of a fireplace but with an existing fireplace I was leaning toward a direct vent gas fireplace.

I have visited three local dealers, and here is the problem. They all carry different products and give opposite advice. In one store the dealer was advising to go with a vent-less unit, after being in the showroom for over an hour I started getting an upset stomach and could smell "gas" of course the dealer said I was imagining the smell.

My first question is how do I find out information pertaining to the unit itself. Is there a place that might list the manufactures and rate the product. Has anyone heard of Empire? or Monessen ? I was also told that Xtrordinair was the only manufacture of an efficent fireplace box.

I live in New Jersey, two story home, 3500 sq ft. My parents live with me (both in their 80's) and they like the place "hot"...

I would appreciate all input.
Thank you

Example:

 

[elkimmeg]

first of all, ventless stoves can not be considered serious heaters. They are not to be used contineously. Me I never want to breath exhaust air in my home
make sure what ever unit you buy has a vonvection chanber and blower a lot of heat is sucked up the chimney and threw outside masonry walls.
you might request a damper block off plate to prevent heat loss from going up that chimney.

Most internal parts are supplied from the same manufactures Be it Majsetic or Lenox

Carbon monoxide detectors are a must have in addition to whatever stove you decide upon

 

[nancy2u]

Thank you for such fast replys

I was researching (online) about the vent-free firebox. AND I WILL NOT BE PUTTING THIS IN MY HOME. My familys health is not negotiable.

The open area which has no walls dividing three spaces is 43 ft by 30 ft with 12 ft ceiling, five skylights and the 43 ft wall is mostly glass. Though I realize a "stove" would be probably better, I want the look of the "fireplace"

If I understand correctly my choices are now a DIRECT-VENT firebox (gas) or a wood fireplace box (like xtrordinair)

My budget for the box is $2500 to $4,000 range (the fireplace xtrordinair I believe was in the higher end.) I am not fimilar with a Rumford? What is a Rumford a wood stove or a fireplace? Is this gas or wood?

 

[webbie]

Rumford is a wood fireplace you would build from scratch, and would not be as efficient as an insert.

You can defintely find something in your price range. You must make the wood or gas decision, while is surely a lifestyle issue. If you do not enjoy wood (the smell, hauling, stacking, etc.), then gas is the way to go..relatively reasonable, turns on from a button, remote control or thermostat, etc.

As far as exact model - there are so many units on the market and most are really nice. I would suggest finding a dealer and installer you feel comfortable with and , if possible, choosing from the selection of brands that he/she sells.

Where in NJ are you?

 

[nancy2u]

Incredible! The Rumford looks amazing!

I would love to retro fit, my existing masonary fireplace in the old family room. We love the smell of wood burning and my dad enjoys "starting the fire". I live in Freehold, considered Central Jersey.

As for the new great room The gas "touch of a remote control" sounds as a great alternative, though I am not fond of the glass front. Would you suggest a 36" or the larger 42" firebox. Finding a dealerthus far has not been easy, so far I have losts of conflicting information, furthermore pushing a ventless unit and not fortcoming with the cons of a product is not ethical in my opinion. Though I am sure ethical business practice still exist in the state of New Jersey. I just have to find them.

You guys are great. What a wealth of information.

 

[hearthtools]

(broken link removed to http://www.kozyheat.com/jacksonxxl_unit.htm)

 

[adrpga498]

Incredible! The Rumford looks amazing!

I would love to retro fit, my existing masonary fireplace in the old family room. We love the smell of wood burning and my dad enjoys "starting the fire". I live in Freehold, considered Central Jersey.

As for the new great room The gas "touch of a remote control" sounds as a great alternative, though I am not fond of the glass front. Would you suggest a 36" or the larger 42" firebox. Finding a dealerthus far has not been easy, so far I have losts of conflicting information, furthermore pushing a ventless unit and not fortcoming with the cons of a product is not ethical in my opinion. Though I am sure ethical business practice still exist in the state of New Jersey. I just have to find them.

You guys are great. What a wealth of information.

Have you checked with the dealer on HIghway 35 in Oakhurst? I found them very ethical. Stay away from the guy in Englishtown. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[webbie]

Did you visit the store in Englishtown - Irene - I think it used to be called Fireplaces of America.
Oh, I see someone didn't like the ET dealer...well, maybe they got too fat and happy, but they used to be hard working salt of the earth.

Yes, the Wood Stove in Oakhurst is also well known. Top of the line place...if still there, is Albers up on Rt. 22, although that may be a distance.

Maybe they are retired now, but I remember them as decent people.

As far as the size of firebox in a gas fireplace, it really only has to do with the scale of the room and how you want the fireplace to look. Also, check the exact glass size, as sometimes they use funny measurements to name the fireplaces.

My old shop is not too far away, although I don't know if they install up that way....you can always give 'em a call - call ed or jan at Stoveworks in Medford nj - 609-654-1384
They are very ethical to say the least (I trusted them with my entire lifes work!).

 

[nancy2u]

I am down by Voorhees, at least once a week, Medford is a stone throw away. I will also vist the Oakhurst store today.
Where is "My Old Shop" we will do our own installation.

I want honest professional service. this is a big investment (consider stone, mantel, doors) so I will travel to another state if I must. New England is beautiful this time of year, and fireplaces and stoves are a must up there.

 

[seaken]

Thank you for such fast replys

I was researching (online) about the vent-free firebox. AND I WILL NOT BE PUTTING THIS IN MY HOME. My familys health is not negotiable.

The open area which has no walls dividing three spaces is 43 ft by 30 ft with 12 ft ceiling, five skylights and the 43 ft wall is mostly glass. Though I realize a "stove" would be probably better, I want the look of the "fireplace"

If I understand correctly my choices are now a DIRECT-VENT firebox (gas) or a wood fireplace box (like xtrordinair)

My budget for the box is $2500 to $4,000 range (the fireplace xtrordinair I believe was in the higher end.) I am not fimilar with a Rumford? What is a Rumford a wood stove or a fireplace? Is this gas or wood?

Yep, cross off the guy who recommended the ventless. Unless it was some stupid sales person, and not the owner. That's just wrong.

Are you going to try and heat the entire space with your fireplace or insert? While a Rumford is a nice choice for a wood fireplace it may not be the best choice for positive heating efficiency. As a decorative fireplace it is about the most efficient. But if you want a heater you should consider a controlled combustion appliance, either a high-efficiency fireplace (FPX, BIS, etc, - or Tulikivi or other masonry heaters) or a gas fireplace or insert. Your budget will probably be best suited to an insert, like the one suggested by Rod.

Have you tried searching on the Hearth, Patio, and Barbeque Association web site? Go to www.hpba.org and search for a dealer by zip code. Look for the NFI certification. There is no guarantee, but these shops are more likely to treat you better than that guy who said ventless was a good choice. They should ask you what you want to accomplish (decorative or heating, primary heater or supplemental, etc.) and then show you what they sell that may fit your needs.

 

[seaken]

My first question is how do I find out information pertaining to the unit itself. Is there a place that might list the manufactures and rate the product. Has anyone heard of Empire? or Monessen ? I was also told that Xtrordinair was the only manufacture of an efficent fireplace box.

There are several good appliances that may work for you. I would not put either Empire or Monessen near the top of the list. They are low-end manufacturers and cater to the needs of builders and gas contractors. The better stuff comes from some of the following (not an exhaustive list):

Avalon
LOPI
Fireplace Xtrordinair
Mendota
Heat-n-Glow
Vermont Castings
Valor
Jotul
HearthStone
Morso

These manufacturers, among others, cater to the needs of hearth specialists and high-end contractors. Look for dealers who specialize in these high-quality hearth products and who take their trade seriously. There are lots of outlets for fireplaces and inserts. If you want the good stuff, go where the good stuff is sold and serviced.

 

[nancy2u]

Sean

Thank you, I have a better understanding of what not to do. In my large room (1300 sq ft) a source of heat would be top priority and second the look of a fireplace with the convience of a switch. I calculated my first floor, it is close to to 3,000. Sq ft. though not an open space.

(controlled combustion appliance, either a high-efficiency fireplace (FPX, BIS, etc, - or Tulikivi or other masonry heaters) or a gas fireplace or insert.)

Is a "FPX OR BIS, TULIKIVI" a heater or a firebox? Or are they for wood?

 

[seaken]

Sean

Thank you, I have a better understanding of what not to do. In my large room (1300 sq ft) a source of heat would be top priority and second the look of a fireplace with the convience of a switch. I calculated my first floor, it is close to to 3,000. Sq ft. though not an open space.

(controlled combustion appliance, either a high-efficiency fireplace (FPX, BIS, etc, - or Tulikivi or other masonry heaters) or a gas fireplace or insert.)

Is a "FPX OR BIS, TULIKIVI" a heater or a firebox? Or are they for wood?

The FPX and BIS I mentioned are wood burners. They are fireplaces that are intended to be built in. The Tulikivi is also a wood burner but is a masonry mass heater.

I'm not sure how you understand the term "firebox". In our terminology the firebox does not indicate whether or not the appliance is a heater. The firebox is where the fire burns. All of these appliances have a firebox but we do not use that term as a type description. I'm not sure but I think you may be thinking of what we call an "insert". If you want to keep your existing fireplace you can convert it to an efficient heater by inserting an "insert". They come in gas burning, wood burning, and pellet and coal burners. It's confusing - some in the building industry use the term insert to describe what we call a built-in "zero-clearance" fireplace. But when we say "insert" we are talking about converting your existing fireplace. A new "zero-clearance" firplace would REPLACE, or supplement, your existing fireplace, depending on how you wanted to use the existing space.

The FPX and BIS are built-in "zero-clearance" fireplaces that burn wood efficiently under a controlled combustion technique similar to a free-standing wood stove. They act like a furnace but look like a fireplace. The Vermont Castings Sequoia is another. There are others of this type. Here a few links:

http://www.fireplacextrordinair.com/
http://www.securitychimneys.com/pages/fireplace/high_BisPanorama.asp?country=us
(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productline.cfm?category=5&sc=7&pl=32)

 

[lepp]

Seaken has a good summary of the terminology. Based on your first post, sounds like you want either a woodburning insert (for the sound & smell of wood burning) or a gas insert (for the convenience - remote controls, no fuss no muss but no smell either). Both will provide heat, your decision on how much effort you want to put in on a daily basis.

There are lots of styling options but the size of your existing masonry fireplace may be a limiting factor - what will fit? With the other posters I would agree that finding a good reliable dealerthat you are comfortable with is the best place to start.

And if I may ... I'd like to add Regency & Hampton to Seaken's list of manufacturers.