May be over before I get started

[Kahuna1]

I had big plans for having a stove put in this summer. Had the chimney inspected today. The sweep told me I have cracked tiles and that they were 8x13 so I would need them to be knocked out, a liner installed and insulation poured around it. All this to the tune of $140 a foot. On top of that I'd still have to purchase pipe, stove, surround etc. they said that the chimney itself was pretty clean. Smoke chamber cold use a cleaning, but it wasn't worth it if it was gonna be relined.
Does this sound about right? My chimney is 19'. So $2800 plus just to get chimney right. They did say I could convert to a gas fireplace and that there was room for the exhaust and incoming air pipes. I would like to stay with wood though. The thought of gas prices scare me and wood can be scrounged. Thanks John .

 

[begreen]

Get the exact ID of the tiles. I am wondering if you could install a pre-insulated liner like DuraLiner instead of knocking out the tiles. It's zero clearance. Their round liner is 6 5/8" OD. They also make oval. Both are available in rigid and flex with several transition piece options. It's pricey, but much less than what has been proposed.
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)

 

[yooperdave]

Sure sounds expensive. Don't quite understand why the tile would have to be removed in order to put a liner in. There are kits available with the 1/2" insulation wrap that would come in just under 8" finished diameter. That is, if you need a 6" liner...

And welcome aboard, Kahuna!

 

[begreen]

That's why I asked for the tile ID. It's usually about 1.5-1.75" less than the ID.

 

[yooperdave]

Does this mean I'll have to start reading all the responses?

 

[fire_man]

Get the exact ID of the tiles. I am wondering if you could install a pre-insulated liner like DuraLiner instead of knocking out the tiles. It's zero clearance. Their round liner is 6 5/8" OD. They also make oval. Both are available in rigid and flex with several transition piece options. It's pricey, but much less than what has been proposed.
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)

What's the advantage of oval DuraLiner instead of ovalizing flex pipe and then insulating?

Unfortunately my clay liner ID is 6.5" so the DuraLiner 6" just misses or I would have jumped right on it.

 

[begreen]

Both will work. Duraliner has a thicker wall (.016), thinner overall profile.

 

[bholler]

What he proposed is the right approach in my opinion but his price seems high. The one thing you said that bothers me is that it wasn't worth cleaning e smoke chamber if you are doing a liner. Everything needs cleaned very well if you are doing a liner.

 

[bholler]

Beegreen i am wondering how the outer shell of the duraliner will hold up do you know how long it has been out on the market? It sounds very interesting but the galvalume exterior scares me a bit. I also noticed that they say it is for gas, pellet, oil, wood, or coal but they don't say anything about any alloys but 304 which will not hold up to anything but wood. It sounds very interesting but some of the specs don't seem right. I am just wondering what your experience with it was?

 

[begreen]

It was on the market for a long time under Simpson, but I don't remember when it first came out. I have never heard of a failure with this product. There is no flue gas contact with the exterior of the liner and it is in an dead air space. It should last decades. I suggest giving M&G tech support a call.

 

[bholler]

Yeah i guess the outer shell should be good but i still don't see how they can sell it for gas oil and coal with a 304 alloy. Especially coal will eat that in less that 10 years.

 

[begreen]

They respond quickly. I just heard back from them. It's been out since the late 80s. It has a lifetime warranty if professionally installed which includes 100% replacement for defects for the first 15 yrs, then prorated beyond that. Send them an email or call about coal questions. The OP's concern is with wood burning. Unless I'm missing something it looks like this would be an under $1000 solution, not including labor.

 

[bholler]

I will contact them and yes it would work fine for wood without question

 

[begreen]

John. I would get some more quotes and insist that the smokeshelf be cleaned with the rest of the chimney. Ask for a quote installing Duraliner. It installs like most rigid pipe. They make a flex section for getting past the damper.

This will give you a sense of pricing for the pipe.
(broken link removed to http://www.woodstovepro.com/store/cart.php?m=search_results&search=6DLR-48)
(note that this is the dynamitebuys.com sales team under a new name)

 

[Kahuna1]

Thanks for the welcome and suggestions. Glad I found this site! The company I had come by today came very highly recommended in my area, but sounds like I may have been gouged a bit. Definitely will shop around and get another estimate with the Duraliner. Thanks everyone!

 

[fraxinus]

I've made this recommendation so many times, I'm somewhat reluctant to do it again, but... Before you commit to a metal liner, check out a poured in place liner if they are available in your area. SupaFlu is one system, there are others. This would seal any cracks in the old tile liner, it is self-insulating and takes only two days to install. I'm not sure whatt the cost comparison with a stainless liner is like today, but it's worth investigating.

 

[webby3650]

I have installed lots of insulated liners down 8x12 flues. Definitely get an exact measurement on that tile! Some companies just break out tile as part of the deal. Just to run the price up in my opinion. Most Often there is no reason to.

 

[fire_man]

Seem nuts to break out a clay liner unless it poses a risk to the new liner (as long as the new one fits). I'm not sure I understand the benefit to the SupaFlu over SS insulated for a wood stove. - my guess it would be more $$.

 

[bholler]

yeah if you can get an insulated liner in with out breaking out there usually is no reason to break out. In my experience though it is generally very hard to get a properly insulated 6" liner in a 7" by 11" liner. I have never used duraliner so that might work. To me an oval is an absolute last option ovalizing does reduce velocity and draft a little and makes it a little harder to clean. I would much rather break out and put in a round liner but there are times when breaking out is not a good option. I have not been impressed with the cast in place liners that I have cleaned but my experience with them is pretty limited and I really don't know much about the cost difference.

 

[webby3650]

Not to mention a cast liner would not do any good in this situation. Since the OP is wanting to install an insert.

 

[bholler]

I have seen them done with a stub of ss in the bottom to attach to an insert but it seemed pretty chinsy to me.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Does this mean I'll have to start reading all the responses?

No. I usually don't read any of them.

 

[fire_man]

yeah if you can get an insulated liner in with out breaking out there usually is no reason to break out. In my experience though it is generally very hard to get a properly insulated 6" liner in a 7" by 11" liner. I have never used duraliner so that might work. To me an oval is an absolute last option ovalizing does reduce velocity and draft a little and makes it a little harder to clean. I would much rather break out and put in a round liner but there are times when breaking out is not a good option. I have not been impressed with the cast in place liners that I have cleaned but my experience with them is pretty limited and I really don't know much about the cost difference.

I am pretty sure my clay liner is 7" by 11". From what I can tell measuring by sticking a ruler up the smoke shelf into the clay liner it looks like
6 1/2" on the narrow side. I wonder if the 6" duraliner, which is 6 5/8" OD would squish in there? Might be worth a call to find out - but my guess is they would recommend the oval which I agree is a LAST RESORT.

 

[fire_man]

Bholler - why do you say ovallizing reduces draft? I agree with you, but I asked an HVAC guy that question and he said it did not reduce draft - but maybe it only applies to draft in a wood stove when there is negative pressures involved. Is it the transition from round to oval that restricts draft or the shape, or both?

 

[webby3650]

I am pretty sure my clay liner is 7" by 11". From what I can tell measuring by sticking a ruler up the smoke shelf into the clay liner it looks like
6 1/2" on the narrow side. I wonder if the 6" duraliner, which is 6 5/8" OD would squish in there? Might be worth a call to find out - but my guess is they would recommend the oval which I agree is a LAST RESORT.

I do not think an oval liner is a last resort. It will not reduce your draft enough to even notice with a 19' chimney. You can have the liner ovalized as much or as little as needed to make it fit. We will often have one slightly ovalized. Once its down the chimney, the bottom can be returned to round with a little persuasion. You won't even need any special adapter, it will work fine. The only kicker would be if you any offsets in the flue. Then it will be more troublesome.