mother-in-law burning problems.

[tigger]

So here is the story. My MIL lives in rural VT by herself. Something is not right with her burning situation. She goes through 5-6 cord (75 years old). I have to clean her chimney 3 times during the season. She is running a VC defiant from 1980ish. The wood seems to be fairly dry (15% on a fresh split). From the temps that she running on the stove top and pipe she is running it a bit to low. But not that bad. Chimney about 18 feet. My thoughts/questions. Is that the correct chimney cap? Most of the creasote is built up on the cap. It is built up so much that it breaks off big pieces and falls on the room and ground. Can that stove be that ineffient that is is causing this build up? I wonder if the stove is working correctly. No one has done any work on it in 20years. It has a self adjusting air intake and the damper locks when the stove gets to a certain temp. Anyone have thoughts on this? Is it time to upgrade the stove? Chimney cap? Thanks

 

[CenterTree]

Considering that the stove is about 35 years old, I do think it is time for an upgrade.
A new EPA stove should cut her consumption by a near 35%.

The hearth looks good and it should be a straight forward install....assuming that chimney has no issues.

Make sure you get the proper size NEW stove too.

Sounds like a GREAT Mother's Day gift for the MIL.

 

[Kosmik]

Probably fairly normal given the whole run of the chimney is exterior in VT. I notice a night and day difference in buildup between the sections inside the house and the sections outside the house. Basically no buildup in the interior chimney. The cap will probably never get hot, so seems to be a good indicator of whats really going up the chimney. I look at my neighbors cap (smokedragon, smolders like there's no tomorrow) its got chunks hanging off the bands, looks like a stalagmite. His chimney is almost completely contained in his house.

I'd also try and get one with same existing flue size. Probably help my buildup situation if I wasn't running into an 8" from a 6".

 

[Bobbin]

Is wood her only heat (something tells me, No)? If not, it's time to lose the old stove and jump over the broom into the land of EPA stoves! Newer is cleaner, more efficient, and wicked easy to use!

 

[tigger]

She does have an oil fired furnace, but it is off most of the time. That old Defiant does throw some heat. I have been thinking that maybe its tme to step up the stove. I thing maybe a non cat, so there are less moving parts. The install will be easy. The room where the stove is 8ft ceilings and 30x30 with rest of the house off of this room. There are 7 bedrooms in the house, so a big stove is necessisary. I was thinking an englander nc30. I dunno, still in the brainstorming phase. Anythoughts on that cap? Is that even the correct one for a wood stove. Most of the time when I have seen that style its on a furnace chimney. Thanks-tigger

 

[tarzan]

How is that chimney ran. It goes through the roof in the room but up the side of the house?

 

[tigger]

The pipe goes strait up through the ceiling of the living room/roof and the outside. As you can see about half of the pipe is inside and the other half is outside.

 

[tarzan]

Ok, gotcha now (;

As others have said, build-up on the cap with the exterior run and old stove is probably going to be hard to avoid. The biggest problem you will likely have with installing a non-cat EPA stove is teaching her how to run it after years with the smoke dragon.

 

[billb3]

My sister has the Scandia copy of that stove.
It can throw some heat for sure.
It has a voracious appetite too.

iirc, look for cracks on the backplate above the row of air inlets on the back wall.
gaskets on the doors are 30 years old ?




Glad the thread was MIL burning problems and not MIL burying problems

 

[tigger]

I wouldn't bury her. She was born and raised in Italy. I did a 2500 mile road trip to Nova Scotia with her as my copilot last summer. Wife in the back seat tending to the kiddos. Now, maybe my own mother....anyway. Yes the gaskets and everything are original. I think a very large, noncat, simple to use stove might be in my future. Any recommendations.

 

[SteveKG]

Time for a new stove. We live at 8500' above sea level and it's cold here. We run two stoves all the time and occasionally three. We go through, in the worst winter I can say, maybe 3 cords, and one of our stoves is addicted to eating lots of wood. Of course, home insulation and condition of windows, etc. will have an effect. But for that amount of wood, geeeez. I bet you can help her cut that by a third or half with a better stove that is more efficient.

 

[peakbagger]

I would expect that it isn't the stove its the house is located in. Using a rough conversion of 100 gallons per cord she is burning 600 gallons per winter. I have seen many older homes in VT that uses 1500 gallons per year. Yes an new EPA wood stove will reduce her usage somewhat but the money spent on the new stove may be best spent on insulation. A defiant puts out a lof of heat and if its is run with the air damper closed it can burn inefficiently creating creosote.

 

[logger]

I have no idea why people are saying she needs a new stove. If she doesn't mind going through that much wood, those 1980 era defiants do a fine job heating. Looks aren't everything and not everyone can afford a new stove when an issue arises. Anyway, I'd like to ask how she starts her fires? The exterior pipe is def going to cause some condensation n creosote buildup but it shouldn't be clogging the cap that often. I went through a similar situation a few years back and paid close attention to the buildup around my cap. I could make out little burnt pieces of paper and realized it was the newspaper Id been using as a starter. I switched to fatwood n super cedars and the problem never occurred again. Could be the same thing if she's using that as a starter.

 

[blades]

As no one else asked is the flue pipe insulated triple wall outside? Is it single or double wall inside?

 

[Phoenix Hatchling]

Isn't it illegal to burn the mother-in-law?

 

[Xena]

Might be time for glasses. Quick glance I saw mother-in-law burying problems.
Sorry to go OT. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[firefighterjake]

Didn't the Defiant use an early secondary burn method for a little bit longer and cleaner burns ... the so called horizontal burn?

 

[tcassavaugh]

I think its a factor of the pipe out in the cold that is causing the build up on the cap. five cord isn't that much really especially for this winter in that area....it was cold. i'd weigh the cost of a new stove against the cost of wood and maybe just resolve myself to clean it 3 times during the season. my mom burned an old Montgomery Ward stove much like the Vogelzang Heartwood Heater/circulator. She lived alone for 15 years feeding that stove every year. Not really efficient but it worked for her. Same may apply for your mom-in-law. not sure what cost per cord is up there but in the area of the mass, Vermont, New York border area I think it was running around 200 a cord, maybe a little more if I recall correctly. i'd weigh the cost of the wood against the cost of a new stove. did you say it has an 8" flue? if I got a new stove, I would consider the blaze king king....I know it has a cat but shouldn't be that hard to run and you can set the draft via the thermostat and you shouldn't have to tinker with it. plus you get long burns. if you need a big stove, from what I've seen, that's about the biggest. oh yeah, don't forget to consider her feelings about all of it. good luck....good thing is that spring is just around the corner....right???....right??

 

[DougA]

I run a VC Resolute of the same era and I have a fair bit of crud on the cap this year. Much more than any previous. My guess is a combination of a lot more wood burned and much more cold weather. My chimney is actually fairly clean, it's just the screen and the cap that get full of crud. I take a stick and bang it and it comes off very easily.

 

[begreen]

Check with your local legal authority before considering mother-in-law burning.

I'd say it's time for a new stove. The old Defiant is most likely well overdue for a rebuild and even then it won't match the clean burning performance of a new stove.

 

[Kevin Dolan]

View attachment 129244 View attachment 129244 View attachment 129245 View attachment 129246 So here is the story. My MIL lives in rural VT by herself. Something is not right with her burning situation. She goes through 5-6 cord (75 years old). I have to clean her chimney 3 times during the season. She is running a VC defiant from 1980ish. The wood seems to be fairly dry (15% on a fresh split). From the temps that she running on the stove top and pipe she is running it a bit to low. But not that bad. Chimney about 18 feet. My thoughts/questions. Is that the correct chimney cap? Most of the creasote is built up on the cap. It is built up so much that it breaks off big pieces and falls on the room and ground. Can that stove be that ineffient that is is causing this build up? I wonder if the stove is working correctly. No one has done any work on it in 20years. It has a self adjusting air intake and the damper locks when the stove gets to a certain temp. Anyone have thoughts on this? Is it time to upgrade the stove? Chimney cap? Thanks

Our township banned burning mother in laws/witches back in the late 1850's.
I think a new EPA stove would be a better choice!

 

[logger]

We go through, in the worst winter I can say, maybe 3 cords, and one of our stoves is addicted to eating lots of wood.

I cannot fathom how you run 2 stoves 24/7 in Colorado and only burn 3 cords of wood. Are we talking 4x4x8? I go through 4-5 with just one EPA approved stove.. 6 cords this year with the winter we experienced. Im guessing in the Rockies you're burning softer wood than my oak, cherry, locust, etc? I need to know your trick.

 

[mudr]

Isn't it illegal to burn the mother-in-law?

Just make sure she's seasoned for a minimum of 2 years, you'll be ok.

 

[rideau]

Your 75 year old mother in law is going to find it harder and harder each year to feed that much wood into a stove. Who shovels to the woodpile and carries the wood into the home?

Personally, I'd be going for the most efficient, trouble free fairly large stove I could find. I'd also not rule out a cat or a hybrid. Cats don't have "moving parts". Cats and hybrids tend to be more efficient, using less wood to produce equivalent heat.

Another consideration with a 75 year old is gradual loss of balance that many experience. I personally feel that a soapstone stove is a great safety factor. One can put one's hand on the stove top for an instant for balance when necessary, and not get a burn because the stone transmits heat so slowly. Also can put a hand on the soapstone to assist standing, after kneeling to load the stove, without getting a burn. I would also be considering building up the hearth for her so she can have the loading door at a convenient height for sitting and loading, should she have difficulty down the road kneeling or bending to load the stove.

She is 75 and has a 7 bedroom home. How many people live in the home? Presumably, if she is relatively alone, you close off many of the bedrooms in the winter?? Likely she has the home so she can heat only the parts she uses in the winter, and the areas she needs to worry about freezing. If she is heating bedrooms because of adjoining bathrooms (unused) that must be kept from freezing, I suggest winterizing any bathrooms she doesn't use.

 

[begreen]

You make some good points, but also some major assumptions. My mom lived to 100, 75 was still a lively time for her. Also, every cat stove I have seen has a "moving part" called the bypass. And older people can get more forgetful. A bypass is just one more thing to keep track of.