Napoleon 1402 Hearth

[redclay]

Hey all, been getting some great info on hearth construction, so now Im going to pose this question:

In the manual for the 1402, there is no reference to minimum r-value requirements for the hearth, other than mentioning the min dimensions needed, and also outlining how the hearth is to be made with non-combustible materials.

So going with that, I want to confirm: Can any non-combustible material can be used regardless of r-value for the hearth construction?


I had a design of the hearth in mind such that I was thinking of removing the existing red tile (what I can remove around the stove already installed), and then cut a sort of elliptical curve in front to maintain the min. dimensions, removing the hardwood flooring, and then laying down some tile in its stead.

Then a fella at Home Depot suggested that I could make a removable hearth pad, constructed with a backer board and tile on top of that. One which I could have in place for use in the winter, and then take out in the summer.
I kinda liked that idea when he mentioned it. But he did mention that I'd need an inch at least (of mortar? of board? Im not really sure, I didn't clarify this with him) to prevent any cracking of the grout between the tiles from traffic. The traffic would be minimal, by no means regular traffic on the hearth. Would this be the case?

It seems to me that the removable hearth would be less work, which isnt really a deciding factor, I just want to install something that will last!

Any advice/direction would be appreciated! Thanks!!

 

[KB007]

I asked about hearth construction today and was told that anything not permanently fixed was a no-no. Now if you screwed it down in the winter then took the screws out in the summer... but that would look like crap with the holes...

 

[Joey]

Welcome. I'm assuming the wood floor near the stove is 3/4 inch hardwood flooring. What I did was to "sink" 3/4 24x24 inch granite tiles directly into the floor. Its mounted flush with the hardwood flooring and doesnt prevent a tripping hazard. Did the install myself. I'm sure you will get some great ideas on here. Good luck with the stove..

 

[KB007]

Welcome. I'm assuming the wood floor near the stove is 3/4 inch hardwood flooring. What I did was to "sink" 3/4 24x24 inch granite tiles directly into the floor. Its mounted flush with the hardwood flooring and doesnt prevent a tripping hazard. Did the install myself. I'm sure you will get some great ideas on here. Good luck with the stove..

Have you got any pictures of that? I'm going to be doing something similar son and would like to see how you did the edging / transition to hardwood. Thanks

 

[stanleyjohn]

how about something like what i did for the needed clearance.

 

[michaelryba]

I have no formal credentials in building codes and fire safety & I hope those that do will follow my comment. That said, I would not want to rely on those red tiles and a running blower for fire protection. They are probably only 1/4 in thick and sitting on top of plywood & joists (both wood.) Accumulating radiant heat is the the thing to fear--not a stray spark during re-fueling. You may want to reconsider your decision not to move the stove and just extend tile. I read a post on this site of somone who "smelled smoldering wood" with a similar set-up. Granted, it was a regular stove w/out a blower. I just walked over & hit the stone in front of my stove with an IR gun. Temps 12" in front of the blower were 120 °F & I'm running it pretty lazy at the moment.

 

[begreen]

Worth checking underneath the hearth in the basement or crawlspace. Our fireplace had the identical tiles, but they were sitting on 6" of cement on top of a rubble filled, 3ft high base in the crawlspace.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Granite and ceramic tile are both fairly good conductors of heat (i.e., not good insulators). But again, that's relevant only if you're concerned with R values. I think your best answer would come from folks with a 1402: how hot does their hearth get?

 

[hunterpa64]

I'm a newbie with a 1402. I have a raised hearth, tile on 6" cement. I know the manual said no combustabiles 48" in front of the insert. My hearth had a wood trim around it from the previous owner and we removed it.

I'd think I'd want alittle more protection myself. 1" of airspace does the trick too. I also had to go that route on my mantle with a heat shield, 1" airspace because the mantel was only 19" and it required 28".

 

[SeaSky]

I have the 1400 freestanding stove version and the stove itself is quite cool underneath, though I am not sure about the insert version with the closer clearances. However, I was dutifully impressed with the radiant heat that poured out through that big glass. I nearly panicked when my tiles way out in front were just soaking up that radiant heat big time coming from that window...even my wood floor four feet away was getting hotter than I wanted. Fortunately I set my tiles on top of an insulating layer that was beyond manufacturers specs. The cause of that extra heat was mostly the secondaries lighting up high in the firebox--and they sure do fire up! Although all temperature measurements were well within safe limits...I just was uncomfortable. The solution: definitely build a hearth beyond manufactures specs for both dimensional and R factors. That 23 inches in front of my stove also makes it so nice to lay wood down and keep the mess off the floor. Good luck!

 

[redclay]

Welcome. I'm assuming the wood floor near the stove is 3/4 inch hardwood flooring. What I did was to "sink" 3/4 24x24 inch granite tiles directly into the floor. Its mounted flush with the hardwood flooring and doesnt prevent a tripping hazard. Did the install myself. I'm sure you will get some great ideas on here. Good luck with the stove..

The

Thanks for the info! the hardwood is more like 3/8. Quite thin, was a cause for some worry when I was restoring the hardwood floor!

Don't think I will be able to sink the granite like your setup, however, if I have a small lip, its not the end of the world either.

 

[redclay]

I have no formal credentials in building codes and fire safety & I hope those that do will follow my comment. That said, I would not want to rely on those red tiles and a running blower for fire protection. They are probably only 1/4 in thick and sitting on top of plywood & joists (both wood.) Accumulating radiant heat is the the thing to fear--not a stray spark during re-fueling. You may want to reconsider your decision not to move the stove and just extend tile. I read a post on this site of somone who "smelled smoldering wood" with a similar set-up. Granted, it was a regular stove w/out a blower. I just walked over & hit the stone in front of my stove with an IR gun. Temps 12" in front of the blower were 120 °F & I'm running it pretty lazy at the moment.

When the certified installer was putting in the stove, I was asking him questions about a hearth extension, and he did not mention any problem with the existing red tiles, else I would hope he wouldnt have installed the stove on them! But having said that, I'm going to call him, and re-affirm that the r-value of the hearth, and specifically those tiles won't be an issue.

cheers!

 

[redclay]

Worth checking underneath the hearth in the basement or crawlspace. Our fireplace had the identical tiles, but they were sitting on 6" of cement on top of a rubble filled, 3ft high base in the crawlspace.

Good idea, just checked it out, looks to be on the typical planking subfloor which is throughout the whole house.

 

[KB007]

My 1450 stove sits about 10" up on its pedestal and the hearth pad gets warm to the touch at about 15" in front of the stove and cooler as you move into the pedestal. I would imagine the same firebox right at floor level will heat the floor up quite a bit, there's a lot of heat that comes off the glass.

Another option might be to raise the insert up a little on some cement board to allow you to install some additional cement board and tiles as your hearth extension.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Ceramic tile (which also is not a good insulator) is only about 1/4" thick, so you could manage with 3/8" flooring (assuming you don't need to insulate). At least, the ceramic tile I looked at at Lowe's yesterday was only 1/4" thick...there is probably some thicker as well.