Need advice on first stove insert purchase. Thanks!!

[lbwalker]

I CAN'T STOP READING THIS SITE! SO glad i found this. I am looking to buy my first wood stove insert and would really appreciate help. Figured after hours and days of reading i'd just ask for help. THANKS!!

THE INFO FOR MY SITUATION:
I live in Cols., Ohio and have a 1600 sq. ft. 2 story 100 yr old house with new windows but poor wall insulation.
I would like to buy an insert to heat as much of my house as possible.
I will not spend more than the $4200 i've been quoted on a Buck model 81 installed w/liner.
I would like to spend less if possible.
My fireplace dimensions: 27in wide X 29.5in high X 18 deep (it is a very old all brick fire box/ chimney)
Chimney is around 25' tall.

QUESTIONS:
1. Is this a good stove? and price for install w/ liner? Buck stove insert Model 81 $4200 (after tax and everything) (The company who gave the quote: "New Buck Chimney Sweeps" has A+ Angie's List reviews)
Price break down: Buck model 81: $2281, Trim kit: $150, Liner kit:$600, Insulation blanket: $325 Labor:$700
1. a. Do you think the insulation blanket is for the liner or the stove? (I can just ask the installer but i've called him like 4x already)
2. They quoted me $300 to install fire brick for firebox, is this needed? I has another installer said it's not needed.
3. I've seen cheap stoves like the Vogelzang Colonial or the Century Heating Model# CB00005 on Northern Tool.com that seem pretty good... how much will I be sacrificing going with a cheaper one like these?
4. Do you have any other advice?

THANKS!! -Luke

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Buck makes great stuff but price i cannot comment as I did mine myself. I would say not to far out of line but make for sure they install a blockoff plate(search forum). The 81 is nice because of bay windows and it protrudes far out of fire place. However all Buck burners can stick out as far as you want because of the trim kit setup. With a drafty place you want it out far!

The blanket is for liner to improve draft.

The firebrick for inside stove, then he'll yes it's needed or extra for the fireplace? Take pix of the fireplace and post.

A friend has an 81 and it's a pretty good heater. I would personally want the biggest firebox I could stuff in there. If the biggest is a Buck, they are built like tanks and hard to beat...

 

[lbwalker]

Thanks a lot! I will take some pics asap.
I

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Oh, and the blower on the 81 is like a jet engine! It is infinitely variable but very strong but man....it really moves some air.

 

[lbwalker]

That's what i like to hear!

 

[buckfan]

I just upgraded from a Century CB00005 to a Buck 81, with pewter finish. I can't say enough good things about the Buck stove. The Century is a great entry level stove, but the firebox is so small, you wind up having to mess with it every hour or so (adding wood, removing coals). It got old. And it would not burn and stay warm overnight, no matter what anyone tells you. The Buck 81 is like being in the big leagues. It burns all night and the heat is amazing. The fan, as others have noted, is so much more powerful than any other insert I've seen. No regrets, and the price looks fair that you were quoted. I installed mine.

 

[lbwalker]

Thanks buckfan! I'm about to pull the trigger on getting one after the positive input. How much did you pay for your stove itself?

 

[Grisu]

The Buck 81 is listed as having a 2.4 cu ft firebox. That is a bit on the small side for the size of your house, level of insulation and climate. I would recommend looking for something closer to 3 cu ft to have some extra capacity for the coldest nights of winter (unless you are ok to occasionally run the furnace).
Some inserts that fall in that category and have a similar price point: Pacific Energy Summit, Lopi Freedom, Osburn 2400
(I did not check whether those fit in your fireplace.)

Some other points:
- Liner: Any modern insert that size will require a full-length six-inch liner for better draft, easier cleaning and less risk of creosote formation. If you have an exterior chimney an insulated liner is highly recommended. It looks like your installer is taking care of that.
- Block-off plate: To retain the heat in the room install or have installed a block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ and https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/poor-mans-block-off-plate-ii.73018/ If the back of the fireplace is an outside wall, putting Roxul (found at Lowes) around the insert will help: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/
- Chimney: Should be cleaned and inspected before putting the liner in. Damper should be wide enough to accommodate a 6-inch liner or needs to be cut out.
- Insurance: Check with your insurance about adding a woodstove and installation requirements.
- Wood: The most important part! Do you have dry, seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20% at your disposal? A modern, EPA-approved stove absolutely depends on seasoned wood. Usually proper seasoning requires at least one year, better two or three of the wood being cut, split and stacked with lots of wind and sun exposure. It is rare that firewood sellers have the time and space available to proper season their wood. If you think of buying it I would ask how long the wood has been split and stacked. Be at home when it gets delivered. Cut a few splits in half lengthwise and test with a moisture meter the center of the freshly exposed surface along the grain. It should be less than 20% although I would still take it up to 25%. Above that either reject the load (but negotiate that beforehand!) or pay only for green wood and stack it for next winter. Moisture meters can be found at your local hardware store or try this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-mini-moisture-meter-67143.html

 

[lbwalker]

Thanks Grisu! I will look into what your suggesting. I'm okay if I need to let our furnace run a bit. I have been collecting wood for almost 2 years (anticipating getting a stove!) I will check the moisture content before burning.

 

[Grisu]

If you are ok with that size stove another insert with a 2.5 cu ft firebox is the Enviro 1700 series (4 different styles available). Many happy owners here and they look a bit better IMHO. I think price is also similar to the Buck. http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/wood/

Congrats to your seasoned wood btw. It is rare that some new member here has his wood ready before he buys the stove.

 

[lbwalker]

Yeah I've been driving my wife crazy filling our back yard and garage with fire wood when we don't have a stove yet!

 

[Sprinter]

Yeah I've been driving my wife crazy filling our back yard and garage with fire wood when we don't have a stove yet!

That is exactly the right sequence! You can get a stove in a week. Wood can take years (depending on species). You're way ahead of most.

 

[buckfan]

Thanks buckfan! I'm about to pull the trigger on getting one after the positive input. How much did you pay for your stove itself?

$2500 with pewter style and surround. I already had the SS liner.

 

[lbwalker]

Stove has been ordered! Will be cookin before the end of the year. Thanks guys.

 

[lbwalker]

Up and burning!! Well the 81 just barely didn't fit so I had to go with the 74. Been burning a week and so far its going good. Furnace in on maybe 0%-5% of the time now during conditions where it would normally be on 70% of the time!

I am going through more wood than expected though... my expectations were probably off. I'm burning mostly ash/silver maple/and oak in that order. Seem to be going through around two (4-6in thick by 20in long) splits an hour with the damper @ around 30% open. Does this sound about right? I know there are a lot of variables... may not be enough info.

Also how much flame should i be trying/expecting to get out of the secondary burners? I seem to be getting some significant secondaries going like 25% of the time on the high end.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

The amount can happen from cold starts as your trying to establish a coal bed. Once you get the coal bed then you can close down earlier and extend burns. You will be surprised just how much creosote you DO NOT make with the damper all the way closed. I like you, maybe, ran mine hot as hell or hotter than need be cause of the creosote thing. When I cleaned my pipe several times with way less than ideal wood. I hardly got a thing from the the cleaning and believe me I scrubbed the liner! I keep my insert around 650 when heat is needed then when wife is happy. I let it get as high as 650 and burn down to 200-300 and reload.

Again all setups are different and the best way to tell, for piece of mind, is checking and cleaning you pipe.

 

[lbwalker]

The amount can happen from cold starts as your trying to establish a coal bed. Once you get the coal bed then you can close down earlier and extend burns. You will be surprised just how much creosote you DO NOT make with the damper all the way closed. I like you, maybe, ran mine hot as hell or hotter than need be cause of the creosote thing. When I cleaned my pipe several times with way less than ideal wood. I hardly got a thing from the the cleaning and believe me I scrubbed the liner! I keep my insert around 650 when heat is needed then when wife is happy. I let it get as high as 650 and burn down to 200-300 and reload.

Again all setups are different and the best way to tell, for piece of mind, is checking and cleaning you pipe.

Thanks for all the help man. Good to know. Yeah i've been trying to run small fires hot rather than big fires slow. Do you still get good secondary flame with it shut down all the way? I will try shutting it down more.

Hey on the damper I noticed that once i pull it all the way out shutting it down I can lift it up and then slide it to the right and it seems to shut it down completely. Does yours do this?

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Typically when the stove is about 450 I am 80% shut down maybe more....and the secondaries go till the wood is coals tapering off until that point. Well, that's how this dry American elm is burning.

Yes mine is the same.....I think left is closed.