Need help deciding on a new epa stove

[rki]

Hi there! I have been pouring over this wonderful forum and researching information on new epa woodstoves, going to dealerships and getting a mixed bag of recommendations. Hoping for some help from the good folks here on this forum!

I received a voucher from the state of MA ( worth $700 ) to replace my very old and loved 1897, ornate parlor stove. The new stove must be epa approved and have emissions at 3.5 or less. My stone hearth is an open concept area with 16' vaulted ceilings with 2 ceiling fans, a front door and two 4'x6' windows. This room is 22' x 15' and it is adjacent to the kitchen & dining area with approx. the same 22' x 15' area but with 8' ceilings. Upstairs has a loft and 2 bedrooms and a bath.

This past very long and coldwWinter, with my old parlor stove burning just about 24/7 and ceiling fans on med-high, while trying to conserve oil, I had to keep my oil heat thermostat on 60 to maintain a 60-62 degree indoor temp. The parlor stove can hold a tremendous amount of wood and puts out a lot of heat but the wood burns up fast. A load of 6 or 7 good sized splits would last about two hours down to hot coals. Thankfully, when I fully loaded at night I would have hot coals in the morning for easy start up. BUT, while trying to keep my furnace from constantly kicking in by burning constantly, I still went through 250 gallons of oil last winter and 5 cords of dry hardwood, mainly ash and maple. I am assuming a new modern stove would improve those numbers and keep me warmer.

So, I went looking at these new epa stoves and was blown away by the small fireboxes. Even the big stoves like the T6 seemed undersized but the folks at the dealerships taught me how these new stoves work but I am still a little skeptical. I don't want to have an undersized stove and I do not expect the new stove to heat the entire house considering my setup is not ideal. My goal is, with my oil thermostat set at 60, I would want the wood stove to push my indoor temp up to 65-70. My house is well insulated, built in 1990. Chimney is on the outside about 20' high. I have a very good draft, no issues with back drafting. Upstairs bedrooms & bathroom doors will be closed as I am not concerned about heating these areas. I am considering these following stoves. Lopi Cape Cod, Hearthstone Manchester, Alderlea T5 & T6, PE Neo 2.5, Jotul Oslo or Carrabasset. The T6 has an emission rating of 3.6 so not sure I could sneak that one by or not. And the Jotul Firelight emissions are 4.1 so that stove isn't in the running. I do like the height of the PE Neo 2.5 but the firebox may be undersized. Looks are important as the stove is on a large river rock hearth which is the focal point of the downstairs. One more question. Would wider ceiling fan paddles be better at pushing the hot air down than regular 6" fan paddles? I added a couple of photos of my interior set up. One looking down from the loft and the other looking at the stove from the dining room. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[webby3650]

Most stoves will heat your space to a degree. Some will heat the entire space. You mentioned several nice stoves, a few I have even had. You should pass on the Cape Cod. The Oslo should do nice, its a fine stove. Although I do have a few complaints about it.
Have you considered a Blaze King Ashford? This stove pretty much changed my life! The burn times are nearly unbelievable. I'm heating 2200 square feet with poor windows with my ashford. My only back up heat is another stove, we use it occasionally. The ashford don't look too bad either.

 

[begreen]

Can you combine the Mass. program with Jotul's $300 rebate on turning in an old stove? If so, I think I would go for the Carrabasset or Oslo.

For the ceiling fans, try running on blowing upward and the other blowing down to help circulate the hot air at the ceiling peak better.

 

[jeff_t]

What is the chimney made of?

What's under/behind the stone?

 

[Benchwrench]

I like that old stove. I wouldn't get rid of it. Use it somewhere else.
you might want to consider a blaze king or Quadrafire 5700 step top. Quads are pretty clean burning.

As a heating bonus, I would run the stove pipe straight up.

 

[rki]

Most stoves will heat your space to a degree. Some will heat the entire space. You mentioned several nice stoves, a few I have even had. You should pass on the Cape Cod. The Oslo should do nice, its a fine stove. Although I do have a few complaints about it.
Have you considered a Blaze King Ashford? This stove pretty much changed my life! The burn times are nearly unbelievable. I'm heating 2200 square feet with poor windows with my ashford. My only back up heat is another stove, we use it occasionally. The ashford don't look too bad either.

I never considered Blaze King because nobody around here carries them. I just checked them out online and the Ashford sure does look nice. I just might take a road trip to see one in person. A little worried about a CAT stove because of scary reports of having to burn perfectly dry wood all the time. I try to burn 2yr seasoned wood but last year I ran out of my good stuff in Feb and had to burn a cord of my 1 yr old wood.
If I ran into a situation like that again would the Ashford have a hard time burning 1 yr. seasoned wood?

 

[rki]

What is the chimney made of?

What's under/behind the stone?

Rock hearth and chimney

 

[rki]

Can you combine the Mass. program with Jotul's $300 rebate on turning in an old stove? If so, I think I would go for the Carrabasset or Oslo.

For the ceiling fans, try running on blowing upward and the other blowing down to help circulate the hot air at the ceiling peak better.

Yep, I can combine with the Jotul rebate. I just wish the Oslo had the door on the right side and the Carrabasset was better looking. Hearthstone has a $300 rebate too which is why I was considering the Manchester. Plus I can get the door on the right. I read a few bad reviews of that stove mostly concerning the side door and that the company was not responsive. The Hearthstone dealer I spoke to said they addressed the door issue. But because the stove is kind of a new kid on the block, I am leery of it. What do you think of the HS Manchester.

 

[webby3650]

I never considered Blaze King because nobody around here carries them. I just checked them out online and the Ashford sure does look nice. I just might take a road trip to see one in person. A little worried about a CAT stove because of scary reports of having to burn perfectly dry wood all the time. I try to burn 2yr seasoned wood but last year I ran out of my good stuff in Feb and had to burn a cord of my 1 yr old wood.
If I ran into a situation like that again would the Ashford have a hard time burning 1 yr. seasoned wood?

Absolutely not! That is just some made up story, I have no idea how that got started. In fact it's the opposite. I also ran out of "good" wood last winter, the Oslo was almost useless but the BK chugged right on through it. I could tell almost no difference.
I think that rumor got started with old VC's, in actuality it had to due with down draft design and nothing to do with the cat.
Another advantage to the BK is if your wood isn't the best, just leave the bypass open longer. Most stoves do not have a way to bypass the combustion system making them a little more sluggish to get rolling.

 

[begreen]

As a stove the Manchester looks quite nice, inside and out. If they have addressed the side door issues then it should be a good heater. One other stove I can strongly recommend is the Quadrafire Isle Royale. It will be more radiant like the old parlor stove and is top or front loading. This stove is in several hearth.com member's homes and is a great heater. They have been making it for over a decade. It has a good track record.

 

[webby3650]

Yep, I can combine with the Jotul rebate. I just wish the Oslo had the door on the right side and the Carrabasset was better looking. Hearthstone has a $300 rebate too which is why I was considering the Manchester. Plus I can get the door on the right. I read a few bad reviews of that stove mostly concerning the side door and that the company was not responsive. The Hearthstone dealer I spoke to said they addressed the door issue. But because the stove is kind of a new kid on the block, I am leery of it. What do you think of the HS Manchester.

I think the Manchester is another fine stove! We have several out there and haven't had any issues with em. There isn't any "new" technology in it to be scared of. We don't have issues with Heartstone as a company either. Most of their issues stem from irresponsible dealers in my opinion. When we need something, they take care of it. But a lot of the time a repair or replacement will cost the dealer some money in one way or another, so some dealers avoid getting involved. Sad but true.

 

[rki]

As a stove the Manchester looks quite nice, inside and out. If they have addressed the side door issues then it should be a good heater. One other stove I can strongly recommend is the Quadrafire Isle Royale. It will be more radiant like the old parlor stove and is top or front loading. This stove is in several hearth.com member's homes and is a great heater. They have been making it for over a decade. It has a good track record.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Isle Royale! That is a very sweet looking stove. Funny I was at a Jotul dealer that carried Quadrafire and he never mentioned the Isle Royale as a potential candidate. All of the Quadrafires on the showroom floor were the big box type stoves. Hmmm, now I have to go back and ask MORE questions.

 

[rki]

I think the Manchester is another fine stove! We have several out there and haven't had any issues with em. There isn't any "new" technology in it to be scared of. We don't have issues with Heartstone as a company either. Most of their issues stem from irresponsible dealers in my opinion. When we need something, they take care of it. But a lot of the time a repair or replacement will cost the dealer some money in one way or another, so some dealers avoid getting involved. Sad but true.

That is very good to know about Hearthstone. I will keep the Manchester in the running and go check out the BK Ashford and the QF Isle Royale that begreen mentioned.

 

[rki]

I like that old stove. I wouldn't get rid of it. Use it somewhere else.
you might want to consider a blaze king or Quadrafire 5700 step top. Quads are pretty clean burning.

As a heating bonus, I would run the stove pipe straight up.

Yeah, I like this old stove too. I will miss it.

 

[bholler]

You might miss the look but when you start burning a new stove i doubt you will miss how it works. Really nice looking stove though

 

[BrotherBart]

When you are sitting in that beautiful room with a great view of the fire that "look" will rapidly become a fading memory.

 

[Grisu]

So, I went looking at these new epa stoves and was blown away by the small fireboxes. Even the big stoves like the T6 seemed undersized but the folks at the dealerships taught me how these new stoves work but I am still a little skeptical.

It is understandable that you are skeptical but no need to be. A modern, EPA-approved stove will be about twice as efficient than your old parlor-stove. With other words, you burn half the wood in a modern stove for the same amount of heat. Right now, you are heating more the outdoors than your house.

BUT, while trying to keep my furnace from constantly kicking in by burning constantly, I still went through 250 gallons of oil last winter and 5 cords of dry hardwood, mainly ash and maple. I am assuming a new modern stove would improve those numbers and keep me warmer.

Almost certainly it will. Since you want to reduce your oil consumption further and be warmer, I would expect you will still need about 4 cords per winter. Using seasoned wood is key but it looks like you are already aware of that.

This room is 22' x 15' and it is adjacent to the kitchen & dining area with approx. the same 22' x 15' area but with 8' ceilings. Upstairs has a loft and 2 bedrooms and a bath.

That adds up to approx. 650 sqft on the lower floor and again 650 upstairs (including the vaulted ceiling as that area will also take up heat) for a total of 1300 sqft. That is not that much and I am wondering whether you really need a large stove. For reference, I heat my 1300 sqft upper floor with a 2 cu ft insert. It struggles a bit when outside temps are in the single digits or below but my home is not well insulated either. Your numbers (250 gl oil, 5 cords of wood burned in a "smoke dragon") also suggest you don't have a huge heating load. A larger midsize stove with a firebox of approx 2.5 cu ft may already be enough and potentially be cheaper. Still, no real drawback of going bigger. Besides the stoves that have been mentioned I would also take a look at the following:

Quadrafire Explorer: The smaller brother of the Isle Royale and recent replacement of the Cumberland Gap. Very low emissions at 2.2 g/hr. 2.4 cu ft firebox.
Woodstock Progress Hybrid: Catalytic and secondary burn hybrid technology. Soapstone stove, side-loader with free choice which side. Company ships factory direct and has excellent customer service. Simply call with any questions. They had a recent sale, maybe you would still be included in that. (I think the stove would look really good in your space.)

Good luck!

 

[Parallax]

This is my first day with my first stove, so I've no idea what your best choice might be. But I'll second rki in agreeing that the Ashford is gorgeous.

 

[Woody Stover]

stove would look really good in your space.

I think a brown enamel Manchester or Ashford would blend in nicely with the wood and stone.

 

[HotCoals]

You will be amazed at the diff a new stove will make!


Maybe put a ceiling in and have another room above or at least storage. Just a thought.

 

[stovelark]

Hello RKI, That bit about cats needing really dry wood I think came from the VC lines and the Jotul cats of the 90's. I have a tech note from Jotul of that period that wanted "smaller splits of well seasoned cordwood for maximum heating efficiency" for their new generation of cat stoves (in that period the Jotul 8 and Firelight 12 models). For the area you're describing, a nice F500 Oslo, HS Manchester or BK Ashford in Majolica Brown would all be sweet. Even the Enviro Boston would be a great contender too. For cost efficiciency, hard to beat the painted black Carrabassett or Oslo. A lot of dealers don't have the QF cast and steel lines displayed (in the store I'm at, we don't always have them either), QF is probably more known for their steel stoves, but the Isle Royale is a very worthy heater Good luck with whatever you choose, your old stove is very ornate, your new stove will amaze you for a lot less wood burned too, I'd guess around 2.5-3.0 cords. Have 4 ready ha.

 

[JayD]

Hello, I all so have about the same square footage 1250 total mostly all open lay-out, I have PE Spectrum great stove, Long burns, over-nite no problem. But to get those long burn times you have to load it up, Which leads to the problem of getting too hot in the house, My house temp average's 78-82 That was with the brutal winter we just had, Way to hot for me! Ya just want to fall asleep. Sure we try to keep the loads small and that does work, At the cost of {short burn times}, So your always farting around loading every few hours, I'm even burning lower btu wood, Elm,red and silver maple. If I were to load with all oak or god forbid Locust, It would roast us out. The point I'm getting at is my next stove will be a Cat Stove, Much more control, Low and slow if you want! Or Let her rip if need be. The wife and I wanted a flame show, Which looks sweet, But not for 1250 sq ft. Saving up now for a new cat stove next year. And looking forward to a little flame with a glow! Just something to think about. Geez I love that old parlor stove you have, Maybe add an enclosed porch in the future and incorporate that in! The would be awsome. Jay

 

[Ricky8443]

based on your post and the amount of detail, you want the best. blaze king is worth the extra effort to attain. easy hard working quality stoves.

 

[Grisu]

Hello, I all so have about the same square footage 1250 total mostly all open lay-out, I have PE Spectrum great stove, Long burns, over-nite no problem. But to get those long burn times you have to load it up, Which leads to the problem of getting too hot in the house, My house temp average's 78-82 That was with the brutal winter we just had, Way to hot for me! Ya just want to fall asleep. Sure we try to keep the loads small and that does work, At the cost of {short burn times}, So your always farting around loading every few hours, I'm even burning lower btu wood, Elm,red and silver maple. If I were to load with all oak or god forbid Locust, It would roast us out.

Loading those lighter wood species may be part of your problem. I burned a lot of pine and ash last winter and found that a full load of ash produced a much more controllable burn. The pine, on the other hand, burned off really fast and got the stove really hot - close to an overfire when I was not vigilant about the air. In your situation, I would try some larger splits of dense, dry hardwood and see if the temperatures are still too hot for you. You could also check the door gaskets to see if they are airtight when your burns are still hard to control.

 

[rki]

It is understandable that you are skeptical but no need to be. A modern, EPA-approved stove will be about twice as efficient than your old parlor-stove. With other words, you burn half the wood in a modern stove for the same amount of heat. Right now, you are heating more the outdoors than your house.


Almost certainly it will. Since you want to reduce your oil consumption further and be warmer, I would expect you will still need about 4 cords per winter. Using seasoned wood is key but it looks like you are already aware of that.


That adds up to approx. 650 sqft on the lower floor and again 650 upstairs (including the vaulted ceiling as that area will also take up heat) for a total of 1300 sqft. That is not that much and I am wondering whether you really need a large stove. For reference, I heat my 1300 sqft upper floor with a 2 cu ft insert. It struggles a bit when outside temps are in the single digits or below but my home is not well insulated either. Your numbers (250 gl oil, 5 cords of wood burned in a "smoke dragon") also suggest you don't have a huge heating load. A larger midsize stove with a firebox of approx 2.5 cu ft may already be enough and potentially be cheaper. Still, no real drawback of going bigger. Besides the stoves that have been mentioned I would also take a look at the following:

Quadrafire Explorer: The smaller brother of the Isle Royale and recent replacement of the Cumberland Gap. Very low emissions at 2.2 g/hr. 2.4 cu ft firebox.
Woodstock Progress Hybrid: Catalytic and secondary burn hybrid technology. Soapstone stove, side-loader with free choice which side. Company ships factory direct and has excellent customer service. Simply call with any questions. They had a recent sale, maybe you would still be included in that. (I think the stove would look really good in your space.)

Good luck!

Hi there, my actual square footage of the entire house is around 2000. Downstairs, on the opposite side of my staircase is an office and off the kitchen across from the office is a long hallway with a Bathroom and a laundry room. But I do not expect to heat these areas entirely with the woodstove. Don't think the heat could sufficiently go around these corners or down a long hallway. So it would be great if a 2.5 cu ft woodbox could do the trick but I don't want to regret getting something undersized. It gets mighty cold where I live. I'm in the Berskshires at only 1300 ft but I sit on top of an open apple orchard and the west wind is wicked during the winter. I do like the Woodstock stoves but I cannot use my MA woodstove voucher with them. I am really leaning toward the BK Ashford with the 2.75 firebox but am having a crazy hard time locating a BK Dealer somewhere within 100 miles. I did a dealer search on the BK website and it came up with a couple local dealers but when I called them both places said they never carried BK. The closest dealer is actually in Montpelier VT. Weird! So, I will call BK directly Monday morning. Maybe I can order through a local Dealer? And this would be sight unseen too..a leap of faith in the Ashford. I have read so many good things about this stove. I think it will be the perfect match. Hope I can pin one down. Thanks a bunch for your input!