need help deciding on a wood stove!

[Fsappo]

I can't imagine that used stoves qualify.

OK, I buy a new stove at the dealer, I sell it to my dad, he then sells it to his brother, he then sells it to me.

do we all get to claim the credit?

Of course not, thats why well..just of course not. Your logic is correct

 

[southbalto]

Darnit Franks....

thought I was on to something

 

[mstrekel]

Fascinating conversation, and I am glad I was able to spur it along. But any thoughts on the original theme of this thread? Lopi Endeavor or Pacific Energy T5? Buying brand new to get the credit.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Well, after about 16 minutes on hold, I spoke to Mr Ellifritz, ID#0220948. He said for a biomass stove to qualify for the tax rebate it must be purchased new, never used. It could be purchased second hand from someone who bought it and never put it into service, but the first burn of the stove in regards to heating (not a preburn at the dealer) must have been in 2009/2010 and by the person who is claiming the refund on their taxes.

Sounds like a lot of potential gray area. Going to be kind of hard to have an outside party determine when the stove was first used.

 

[Fsappo]

The original post didnt mention a Lopi. It was a used stove, a cheap steel stove or a new stove. I just felt buying a new stove for the same net cost as a used stove made sense. I think you got a few thoughts already. Go with the Pacific.

 

[Fsappo]

Well, after about 16 minutes on hold, I spoke to Mr Ellifritz, ID#0220948. He said for a biomass stove to qualify for the tax rebate it must be purchased new, never used. It could be purchased second hand from someone who bought it and never put it into service, but the first burn of the stove in regards to heating (not a preburn at the dealer) must have been in 2009/2010 and by the person who is claiming the refund on their taxes.

Sounds like a lot of potential gray area. Going to be kind of hard to have an outside party determine when the stove was first used.

Your grasping here. Nothing gray about it, its black and white. Whats gray is whether folks want to obey the tax law or become a tax cheat. Not casting stones here, I may have added a few miles to my car usage for work. It's risk/reward, but it's also clear as day and the logic behind the rule is 100% sound

 

[Pagey]

Well, after about 16 minutes on hold, I spoke to Mr Ellifritz, ID#0220948. He said for a biomass stove to qualify for the tax rebate it must be purchased new, never used. It could be purchased second hand from someone who bought it and never put it into service, but the first burn of the stove in regards to heating (not a preburn at the dealer) must have been in 2009/2010 and by the person who is claiming the refund on their taxes.

Sounds like a lot of potential gray area. Going to be kind of hard to have an outside party determine when the stove was first used.

It's not like the IRS is coming around inspecting these things. I think it's a question of what a person feels he/she can get by with and/or a question of moral authority. For example, do I personally feel comfortable putting in a used stove and then claiming the tax credit? No. I personally do not. I am risk averse by nature, and I figure karma would bite me in the ass.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Fascinating conversation, and I am glad I was able to spur it along. But any thoughts on the original theme of this thread? Lopi Endeavor or Pacific Energy T5? Buying brand new to get the credit.

All three are fine quality stoves and should meet your needs, but all three will work differently. Lopi is steel, Jotul is Cast Iron, The PE is cast Iron with a steel firebox and is more of a convection heat stove (I've never used one so I can not speak to the differences).

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I am deciding between a 4 year old Jotul s500 Oslo that has been used for two burn season, a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, and the Napolean Independence. This is a brand new install, and we are putting the chimney through the wall and up the side of the house. I have 1550 sq. ft. to heat, and want this to be my primary heat source through the winters. I am not sure if I should spend $1800 on the Pacific, $1000 on the Napolean, or $1200 on the used Jotul. Someone help!!

I'm a PE guy, so, I vote PE. But the $1200 Oslo is very tempting. Heat output and ease of operation are about a toss up between the two. Based on what I've read here I think the PE has a slight advantage in burn time. Long term maintenance the PE also has a slight advantage. Looks. . . I'm a huge fan of the enameled Jotuls and fairly indifferent about the the flat black and the Alderlea but that's a personal taste thing but it's pretty important IMO. The Alderlea gives you the best of steel and cast iron.

I don't know anything about the Napoleon other than the one's I've seen in the shop look like quality units and the members that have them here seem to like them.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Well, after about 16 minutes on hold, I spoke to Mr Ellifritz, ID#0220948. He said for a biomass stove to qualify for the tax rebate it must be purchased new, never used. It could be purchased second hand from someone who bought it and never put it into service, but the first burn of the stove in regards to heating (not a preburn at the dealer) must have been in 2009/2010 and by the person who is claiming the refund on their taxes.

Sounds like a lot of potential gray area. Going to be kind of hard to have an outside party determine when the stove was first used.

Your grasping here. Nothing gray about it, its black and white. Whats gray is whether folks want to obey the tax law or become a tax cheat. Not casting stones here, I may have added a few miles to my car usage for work. It's risk/reward, but it's also clear as day and the logic behind the rule is 100% sound

Oh, I wasn't saying I was going to go ahead and claim a used stove as a tax credit (in the end it doesn't really matter as I wasn't counting on the refund). But, how will the government determine when, where, and who originally fired up the stove for the first time.

As an example, I'm buying a 2005 Fireview. How will the government determine if the stove was used by the previous owner or if it just sat for the last 5 years waiting to be installed by the previous owner?

 

[Pagey]

Here's my Endeavor review: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/37171/

 

[southbalto]

I say go with the 500 if it's in great shape. It doesn't say anywhere that if you buy a used stove you can't use the 30% tax credit, so get a receipt and down load the tax certificate from Jutol and file with your taxes.

It doesnt say anywhere that a used stove doesnt qualify for the tax credit, but it does say the use of the stove needs to originate with the taxpayer.

Here it is in very plain engrish from the IRS website.

1) Requirements to Claim the Credit. A taxpayer may claim a credit under § 25C with respect to amounts paid or incurred for an item of property only if each of the following requirements is satisfied:

(a) The item is installed in or on a dwelling unit located in the United States and, at the time of installation, the dwelling unit is owned and used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s principal residence (within the meaning of § 121). Thus, the credit is only available for existing homes. See § 45L for the credit applicable to new homes.

(b) The original use of the item commences with the taxpayer.

Note (b) Read that and speak to your accountant before trying to claim a stove that was put into service by a taxpayer NOT claiming it.

I already did. Twice. Does that mean it is fact? Nope, but that is all I can do. I have also spoken with a few dealers (6 to be exact. 4 local and two out of state) who are also claiming that used stoves qualify.

Did you already claim the credit twice on used stoves?

 

[BrowningBAR]

I say go with the 500 if it's in great shape. It doesn't say anywhere that if you buy a used stove you can't use the 30% tax credit, so get a receipt and down load the tax certificate from Jutol and file with your taxes.

It doesnt say anywhere that a used stove doesnt qualify for the tax credit, but it does say the use of the stove needs to originate with the taxpayer.

Here it is in very plain engrish from the IRS website.

1) Requirements to Claim the Credit. A taxpayer may claim a credit under § 25C with respect to amounts paid or incurred for an item of property only if each of the following requirements is satisfied:

(a) The item is installed in or on a dwelling unit located in the United States and, at the time of installation, the dwelling unit is owned and used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s principal residence (within the meaning of § 121). Thus, the credit is only available for existing homes. See § 45L for the credit applicable to new homes.

(b) The original use of the item commences with the taxpayer.

Note (b) Read that and speak to your accountant before trying to claim a stove that was put into service by a taxpayer NOT claiming it.

I already did. Twice. Does that mean it is fact? Nope, but that is all I can do. I have also spoken with a few dealers (6 to be exact. 4 local and two out of state) who are also claiming that used stoves qualify.

Did you already claim the credit twice on used stoves?

Nope. I have not done my '09 taxes yet. And only one stove would have been listed, but I only paid $400 for it, so not exactly heartbreaking.

 

[southbalto]

I say go with the 500 if it's in great shape. It doesn't say anywhere that if you buy a used stove you can't use the 30% tax credit, so get a receipt and down load the tax certificate from Jutol and file with your taxes.

It doesnt say anywhere that a used stove doesnt qualify for the tax credit, but it does say the use of the stove needs to originate with the taxpayer.

Here it is in very plain engrish from the IRS website.

1) Requirements to Claim the Credit. A taxpayer may claim a credit under § 25C with respect to amounts paid or incurred for an item of property only if each of the following requirements is satisfied:

(a) The item is installed in or on a dwelling unit located in the United States and, at the time of installation, the dwelling unit is owned and used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s principal residence (within the meaning of § 121). Thus, the credit is only available for existing homes. See § 45L for the credit applicable to new homes.

(b) The original use of the item commences with the taxpayer.

Note (b) Read that and speak to your accountant before trying to claim a stove that was put into service by a taxpayer NOT claiming it.

I already did. Twice. Does that mean it is fact? Nope, but that is all I can do. I have also spoken with a few dealers (6 to be exact. 4 local and two out of state) who are also claiming that used stoves qualify.

Did you already claim the credit twice on used stoves?

Nope. I have not done my '09 taxes yet. And only one stove would have been listed, but I only paid $400 for it, so not exactly heartbreaking.

Yea, It would have been nice to double dip so to speak.

Is the fireview installed yet?

 

[BrowningBAR]

Is the fireview installed yet?

Nope. I pick it up Saturday. It will be a spring/summer project. I need to remove 150 year old built-in cabinets, build a hearth, and install the liner through the chimney.

 

[Valhalla]

An older home, with more heat loss will require
a stove with a higher btu output.

Do not let standard square footage heating estimates
be your ownly comparison.

Choose wisely.

 

[madrone]

Fascinating conversation, and I am glad I was able to spur it along. But any thoughts on the original theme of this thread? Lopi Endeavor or Pacific Energy T5? Buying brand new to get the credit.

lopi! :cheese: reliable and easy to use. Plus you don't have to re-weld it.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Fascinating conversation, and I am glad I was able to spur it along. But any thoughts on the original theme of this thread? Lopi Endeavor or Pacific Energy T5? Buying brand new to get the credit.

lopi! :cheese: reliable and easy to use. Plus you don't have to re-weld it.

I've seen plenty of Lopis come apart, so. . .

 

[madrone]

Fascinating conversation, and I am glad I was able to spur it along. But any thoughts on the original theme of this thread? Lopi Endeavor or Pacific Energy T5? Buying brand new to get the credit.

lopi! :cheese: reliable and easy to use. Plus you don't have to re-weld it.

I've seen plenty of Lopis come apart, so. . .

All from the same time period, without overfiring?

 

[madrone]

Of course, I'm just provoking you. I really like the PE's, especially the enameled ones. They seem very well designed, and every manufacturer of anything has a bad batch now and then. They have a very good track record overall.