I am deciding between a 4 year old Jotul s500 Oslo that has been used for two burn season, a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, and the Napolean Independence. This is a brand new install, and we are putting the chimney through the wall and up the side of the house. I have 1550 sq. ft. to heat, and want this to be my primary heat source through the winters. I am not sure if I should spend $1800 on the Pacific, $1000 on the Napolean, or $1200 on the used Jotul. Someone help!!
need help deciding on a wood stove!
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skip the Napoleon. Buy the Pacific if you want to take advantage of the tax credit. It will be the same net cost at the Oslo
I worry that the PE T5 wont be enough to really heat our home though. I have heard that it often has trouble making it feel like the whole house is warm. But then again, I dont want to be sweating in the living room sitting next to the oslo either.
mstrekel said:
What would I do?
I would go with the Jotul if it truly is in great shape. The T5 is a great stove, but the Jotul is cheaper, seems to be just as good at heating, and the money saved ($800) will help out for installation costs.
If money isn't a key factor and the T5 is new I might lean in that direction as you will have a stove under warranty and better dealer/manufacturer support from a new product.
Napoleans are good stoves, but I think the other two are on a different level. Since the Oslo is only 200 bucks more, that would take the Napolean out of the equation for me. The two left are hard to go wrong with. We bought an Oslo this year and it is by far the best stove I've operated, but I've never used a PE. Best of luck with the decision.
$1800 x.7 = $1260
The oslo is a fine stove but I would go new for the extra 60 bucks if I could afford the up front cost and wait for the tax credit.
The oslo is a fine stove but I would go new for the extra 60 bucks if I could afford the up front cost and wait for the tax credit.
I have been lurking here for a while, reading different posts, etc. Some folks say that the T5 is such soft heat, that it doesnt really get around corners, etc. But having grown up on Vermont Castings, I understand what a cast iron stove can do. Really hot in the room it is in, but provides heat for the rest of the house.
The pacific seems to be the better stove compared to the opinions of the napoleans on the board.
Franks brought it up but should have explained it - the Oslo is ineligable for the tax credit.
There's a finer rub here too - the chimney can be claimed in the install cost (according to my local stove shop, not my accountant) but if you buy a used stove, you can't claim 30% including the chimney.
So the oslo - you would have to pay for the full cost of the used stove + piping. For a new PE, you knock 30% of the cost of the stove + chimney since the chimney is the "installation" part of a qualifying upgrade. You may claim up to $1500.
Franks brought it up but should have explained it - the Oslo is ineligable for the tax credit.
There's a finer rub here too - the chimney can be claimed in the install cost (according to my local stove shop, not my accountant) but if you buy a used stove, you can't claim 30% including the chimney.
So the oslo - you would have to pay for the full cost of the used stove + piping. For a new PE, you knock 30% of the cost of the stove + chimney since the chimney is the "installation" part of a qualifying upgrade. You may claim up to $1500.
I say go with the 500 if it's in great shape. It doesn't say anywhere that if you buy a used stove you can't use the 30% tax credit, so get a receipt and down load the tax certificate from Jutol and file with your taxes.
Thanks everyone! I think that makes it up for me. definitely a new stove. Now what if I were to have to decide between the PE T5, a new Oslo, or a Lopi Endeavor?
Todd said:
It doesnt say anywhere that a used stove doesnt qualify for the tax credit, but it does say the use of the stove needs to originate with the taxpayer.
Here it is in very plain engrish from the IRS website.
1) Requirements to Claim the Credit. A taxpayer may claim a credit under § 25C with respect to amounts paid or incurred for an item of property only if each of the following requirements is satisfied:
(a) The item is installed in or on a dwelling unit located in the United States and, at the time of installation, the dwelling unit is owned and used by the taxpayer as the taxpayer’s principal residence (within the meaning of § 121). Thus, the credit is only available for existing homes. See § 45L for the credit applicable to new homes.
(b) The original use of the item commences with the taxpayer.
Note (b) Read that and speak to your accountant before trying to claim a stove that was put into service by a taxpayer NOT claiming it.
BrowningBAR said:
Driving faster than the speed limit is not against the law. I know it first hand because I dont get pulled over for going 70 in a 65 MPH zone.
So, should would also ignore the part about the stove needing to be in a primary residence, or did the IRS not really mean that either?
Unless you have something in writing from an IRS Agent stating that used stoves qualify, is it a great idea to suggest to forums readers to ignore item B in the tax code?
Franks said:
I already did. Twice. Does that mean it is fact? Nope, but that is all I can do. I have also spoken with a few dealers (6 to be exact. 4 local and two out of state) who are also claiming that used stoves qualify.
Fair enough. I'm gonna call the IRS and get to the bottom of it. I want to make sure I'm giving my customers correct information. Hard to misread that one sentence though.
This is roughly the same thing that got so many people screwed up over cash for clunkers. I would be interested if anyone is an accountant on the board as to what their interpretation of the law was.
Enforcability is another matter entirely, but I read this to mean "you can buy the stove from anyone, anywhere but it has to be new-in-box". If someone wanted to buy a Jotul and put it on ebay, you would be fine so long as the stove was new. The revenuers would have a hard time proving it otherwise unless one of you got audited, granted, but I felt the language was clear enough.
(Disclaimer - I work in IT, not in finance).
EDIT:
Do let us know, I am curious.
I can't imagine that used stoves qualify.
OK, I buy a new stove at the dealer, I sell it to my dad, he then sells it to his brother, he then sells it to me.
do we all get to claim the credit?
OK, I buy a new stove at the dealer, I sell it to my dad, he then sells it to his brother, he then sells it to me.
do we all get to claim the credit?
southbalto said:
I am by no means a tax expert, but, if I buy a used computer for my business I can claim it as an expense. How is that any different?
Well, after about 16 minutes on hold, I spoke to Mr Ellifritz, ID#0220948. He said for a biomass stove to qualify for the tax rebate it must be purchased new, never used. It could be purchased second hand from someone who bought it and never put it into service, but the first burn of the stove in regards to heating (not a preburn at the dealer) must have been in 2009/2010 and by the person who is claiming the refund on their taxes. For those who don't believe me, call 1-800-829-1040. They were pretty clear about it with me.
Of course, I knew this already, being a member of the HPBA and they have a legal team who does the research and gets the answers for us. Any dealer stating something aside from this is doing a large disservice to their customers and to their industry. If you dont know, don't guess. If you MUST know, go to the source. It wasnt too difficult.
Of course, I knew this already, being a member of the HPBA and they have a legal team who does the research and gets the answers for us. Any dealer stating something aside from this is doing a large disservice to their customers and to their industry. If you dont know, don't guess. If you MUST know, go to the source. It wasnt too difficult.
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