Yeah, I know, this has probably been discussed a zillion times. But my search-fu is weak and it seems metal vs ceramic isn’t super clear cut. Before I order a new catalyst what’s the pros/cons of each and is there a clear consensus here on which to buy????
Need new catalyst for BK Ashford 30
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
I think I'm the only one here who's been running one of each, for an easy comparison in the same weather, house, wood, etc. Most have only tried one or the other in their Ashfords, as only the Steelcat was available originally, and the model isn't all that old.
If you have a tall pipe, strong draft, or ever had issues with your steelcat clogging, then ceramic is the clear winner. But if you're the type to throw the door open on a glowing-hot cat, then the steelcat is more forgiving to thermal shock.
Don't believe anyone who tells you one goes active quicker or stays active longer, it's complete BS, or the differences so small in the grand scheme of burn time that any difference is completely trivial. You've got a 700,000 BTU load of wood raging at 1000°F during the bypass phase, fighting to warm up several hundred pounds of cool metal and brick… and people are gullible enough to actually believe a few ounces of combustor mass makes some meaningful difference in light-off time, in the face of that?
If it makes any difference, which I have not been able to determine myself, it must be so small as to be meaningless to actual operation.
That said, there are two coatings that have been made for these cats over the years. I believe all cats supplied through BK use the newer coating (called "B3" for "beta 3" when I got mine back around 2018, but I believe they're now called "V3" for "version 3"), and that really does seem to make a difference in how early you can light off and how low you can burn. I think it may support reburn at a lower temperature than the original coating, as I do get fast and easier light off on my combust or with this coating.
I believe that if you buy your combustor thru your BK dealer, you get the new coating, but most aftermarket retailers are probably still selling the older chemistry. Search for “coating” by BKVP, for the few comments he has been able to make about this in the past, but understand that regulations limit exactly what he can say about replacement combustors.
Even this is not critical, I’ve yet to try a combustor in my BK Ashford 30 that didn’t work just fine, excepting the clogging issues I had with a steelcat on my taller chimney.
If you have a tall pipe, strong draft, or ever had issues with your steelcat clogging, then ceramic is the clear winner. But if you're the type to throw the door open on a glowing-hot cat, then the steelcat is more forgiving to thermal shock.
Don't believe anyone who tells you one goes active quicker or stays active longer, it's complete BS, or the differences so small in the grand scheme of burn time that any difference is completely trivial. You've got a 700,000 BTU load of wood raging at 1000°F during the bypass phase, fighting to warm up several hundred pounds of cool metal and brick… and people are gullible enough to actually believe a few ounces of combustor mass makes some meaningful difference in light-off time, in the face of that?
If it makes any difference, which I have not been able to determine myself, it must be so small as to be meaningless to actual operation.That said, there are two coatings that have been made for these cats over the years. I believe all cats supplied through BK use the newer coating (called "B3" for "beta 3" when I got mine back around 2018, but I believe they're now called "V3" for "version 3"), and that really does seem to make a difference in how early you can light off and how low you can burn. I think it may support reburn at a lower temperature than the original coating, as I do get fast and easier light off on my combust or with this coating.
I believe that if you buy your combustor thru your BK dealer, you get the new coating, but most aftermarket retailers are probably still selling the older chemistry. Search for “coating” by BKVP, for the few comments he has been able to make about this in the past, but understand that regulations limit exactly what he can say about replacement combustors.
Even this is not critical, I’ve yet to try a combustor in my BK Ashford 30 that didn’t work just fine, excepting the clogging issues I had with a steelcat on my taller chimney.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
It’s also a bit like asking the ford dealer whether you should buy an aftermarket alternator for your truck for half the price as his ford brand. Is the ford alternator actually twice as good?
I’ve run both steel and ceramic cats. Aftermarket and BK brand. I choose to buy the aftermarket ceramic cats. They work very well, last just as long as oem, easy to source from Amazon, and cost is very reasonable.
I’m sure the dealer supplied part would work at least as well.
I totally agree with ashful’s statements about light off and performance being the same. I propose that the only good thing about metal cats is that they are harder to physically break.
I’ve run both steel and ceramic cats. Aftermarket and BK brand. I choose to buy the aftermarket ceramic cats. They work very well, last just as long as oem, easy to source from Amazon, and cost is very reasonable.
I’m sure the dealer supplied part would work at least as well.
I totally agree with ashful’s statements about light off and performance being the same. I propose that the only good thing about metal cats is that they are harder to physically break.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
You're buying the Midwest Hearth units, Highbeam?
I wonder if @BKVP has any data on lifespan of this new coating against the traditional. If we could quantify that, we could put some dollar value judgement on the (supposedly) premium price.
One advantage of Amazon over the dealer is that you click "Buy", and you have the damn thing inside 48 hours. I've been waiting since August 31, just to get a price on steel and ceramic BK OEM cat's, but the local dealer has been real slow on call-backs.
I wonder if @BKVP has any data on lifespan of this new coating against the traditional. If we could quantify that, we could put some dollar value judgement on the (supposedly) premium price.
One advantage of Amazon over the dealer is that you click "Buy", and you have the damn thing inside 48 hours. I've been waiting since August 31, just to get a price on steel and ceramic BK OEM cat's, but the local dealer has been real slow on call-backs.
Midwest units yes. Manufactured by applied ceramics/firecat. This current one is actually lasting much longer than the previous few and I bought a spare during the shortages to be sure I have one. Maybe Applied switched to the new coating since they also make the cats for BK. I would have to assume there are plenty of reasons to just make one plating chemistry for all BK cats vs. a dealer only version.
I don't use "ford" oil in my ford truck even though the ford dealer likes to tell me that it's special.
BKVP may or may not know whether the cats sold by his OEM manufacturer direct retail are the same as those sold to BK for resale at dealerships. Until we know that there is a difference between OEM and aftermarket we don't know anything other than the enormous spread in purchase price to the user.
For gaskets on the BK, always buy from the dealer. The product is not generic, you can only buy the right stuff from BK. The gaskets on this combustion system are very important.
I agree and echo this sentiment for most premium stoves. The OEM gaskets are often of different construction and higher quality than what the local hardware store carries.
Would that include cat’s also? I see a huge variety on the internet at big price differences.
No. I purchase catalysts from the same cat manufacturer that makes them for BK. Recently, as discussed above, BK has improved their catalyst chemistry which may have improved performance in some way. The cat manufacturer may or may not be selling the improved chemistry version cats to everyone.
At this time, I would recommend the applied ceramics (firecat) ceramic catalyst sold through the online store "Midwest hearth" on amazon. It's what my BK came with from the factory and they work great.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I just noticed that all sites seem to list a 10.6" x 4" x 2" combustor for both Ashford and Princess. Are they indeed the same? Firecat has a cat that size listed for the Princess on Amazon, but not the Ashford.
Edit: Confirmed Condar sells the same combustor part number for Princess and Ashford 30, also available there in ceramic. Anyone know if they're using the same washcoat as Firecat / Midwest? I believe Condar just cans coated cells purchased from another source.
Edit: Confirmed Condar sells the same combustor part number for Princess and Ashford 30, also available there in ceramic. Anyone know if they're using the same washcoat as Firecat / Midwest? I believe Condar just cans coated cells purchased from another source.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Close to $500/ea. I've never paid much over $200 for any catalyst in the past, and despite today's inflation, don't think they should be anywhere near that mark.
Found them on Firecat combustors last night for $216, or Amazon (Midwest = Firecat, listed only for Princess, but appears to be the same) around $235. Condar has pricing more like the dealer, but since I've pretty much always has problems with Condar in the past, they'd have been my last resort anyway.
I'd prefer to support a local dealer, but not so much as to pay literally double the going price.
I think it's always been about double to buy this consumable from a dealer. Fortunately, the gaskets aren't that expensive.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Ashful
Minister of Fire
If Applied Ceramics is making the ceramics for Firecat/Midwest, then I suppose this is the combustor I’ve already been running, the last five years.
Hard to say, BKVP seems to suggest that the coating may be different. Special sauce for BK dealer cats?
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yep. Been running it 5 years, and it worked great, but so did the OEM cat. I was running one of each, in two separate stoves, over the same period.
I'm actually sending that both units back to the manufacturer for analysis, as soon as I get around to replacing it. My only real interest is learning how much "life" was left in each after 5 years, if they can even determine that. They both seemed to still be working well at end of last season, but I did notice my chimney was a little dirtier last year than prior years.
Other than that measure, which can be affected by other factors, it's real tough to tell how well a combustor is working. I don't ever see "goo" at the top of my chimney like Highbeam does when his fail, mine seem to just fade so slowly over the years, that I don't even notice any change until I slam a new one in the hole for direct comparison.
I appreciate BKVP's position in this but I have to assume that if the "beta" coating is live with the new stoves and required by BK for their new stove catalysts that all BK catalysts made by Applied/firecat have the same coating. Unless we hear differently from Applied.
I'm all for improvements in catalysts. Glad to see progress is being considered and/or made. At the consumer level, we just can't tell what we're buying other than by performance which has been very good from the "aftermarket" or non-dealer cat supply.
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