Need to Get Longer Than 4hr Burn Times out of my Englander 30!!!

[BurnIt13]

Thanks for the excellent replies everyone! To answer a few questions:
- The air control when cruising is about 10% open, or about a half inch.
- I do leave some ash in there, about a half in when I clean it. Right now there is an inch or so.
- I'm not looking for usable heat for 9-12 hours. The house is too small and the 30 will cook us out unless its zero degrees outside. Usefull heat for 5 hours with enough coals to light the next load at 9 hours would be great.

Okay.....so I'm re-doing the way I use this thing. I'm going to start a fire and document my findings. FYI the temp is 35 degrees right now and falling to the mid 20's overnight. Fairly mild but chilly enough to let the stove stretch its legs.

1. Time - 1 minute. 6 average size splits loaded NS. Two Super Cedar quarters in between the splits on the bottom. Leaving the door cracked.
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2. Time - 5 minutes. The stove is starting to get warm but the flue is reading 550 degrees. Time to close the door. Leaving the air control wide open.
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3. Time - 15 minutes. This thing is screaming. 650 stove temp, 900 flue temp. Shutting the air control to 50%, then 25%, etc. over a couple of minutes.
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At 20 minutes the air control was down to about 10%. The stove top temp was about 750 and the flue temp was about 600.

At 45 minutes it settled down to 600 and flue temps of 500.

At one hour it is down to about 500 with flue temps of 425.

I will post an update at 2 hours with a pic and temps. BTW...the blower is OFF right now. Since this fire started at 5:30, I'd like to reload at 9-9:30 for an attempt at an overnight burn. We'll see.

 

[oldspark]

Door is open too long and your backing the air down too late for starters.

 

[Agent]

Mmmmmmmm
Pretty.
Anywho, when I'm trying to burn for a long time, I try to keep the stovetop from ever getting above 550.

 

[BurnIt13]

Yep, I agree old spark. So far this season my wood has proven more difficult to light due to its slightly higher than ideal moisture content. Today was probably the quickest it ever took off. Lesson learned.

Right now, an hour and 15 minutes later the stove temp is 525 and the flue is 400. Picture and another update in 45 minutes.

 

[BurnIt13]

UPDATE. Its been 2 hours. The stove top temps are 400-425 confirmed with the IR meter. Flue temps are 300.
(broken image removed)

There is a good base of coals and there are some lazy flames in the back of the firebox. I had planned on reloading for an attempt at a longer burn in about two hours. Should I throw a couple splits on there to keep the coal bed up or should I just let it go as is for a few more hours and load on top of whats left?

Thanks!

 

[pen]

for as long as you kept that air open, that looks about right.

Needs to close things down incrementally sooner. The first time I close the air down I usually do it so that the inside edge (stove side) of the spring on the air handle is flush w/ the outside of the ash lip. The flames will look lazy and diminish a bit, but come back in 5-10 mins, then I close it down so that 1/2 of the spring is covered by the ash lip (looking straight down on it). Flames get lazy and a bit smaller, and often 2ndaries start to appear w/ more strength as flames on the logs themselves go down a bit. Same thing, 5-10 mins and when the flames pick up more I'll close it down so that the outside edge of the spring is flush with the ash lip. Depending on weather and load and how hot things are at this time, sometimes I'll end up leaving it here, sometimes an 1/8 in more closed, sometimes an 1/8 in more open. Only a few times a winter does the process vary much from that.

Also, I'd consider that about a 1/2 load in the stove.

By my standards, I'd consider those medium splits at the largest.

3 of those and that that starting method are not going to give you coals for very long but w/ the air adjusted right and the inch ash bed you have underneath, no reason there wouldn't be coals to load on that 10 hours after first filling it up. Things like the strength of your draft could adjust the time as well.

pen

 

[certified106]

Well your posts confirmed what I was wondering......It seems you are letting that load of wood get burning for way to long before shutting the stove down. I leave the door of my stove shut after I light a fire starter. 550 degree flue temps with the door open is nothing but a waste of heat right up the chimney and lead to a fairly quick hot burn. I agree with another poster that you should be attempting to not let the stove top get above 550 for to awful long while still obtaining secondary combustion. You need to experiment with dialing the air back alot sooner and find that happy medium where you are getting it shut down and just allowing enough of a fire burn to maintain active secondary flames. Once I realized just how low you get my T6 to burn and still have no smoke out of the chimney I was amazed but it took a few weeks of experimenting and if you browse through the thread in my sig you can see me talking about high flue temps and quick hot burns but once I found that balance I rarely see my flue temps peak much past 550 at the peak of my burn.

 

[pen]

I agree w/ certified. You don't need a firebox FULL of flames to get this stove up to temp. W/ a box full of flames like that and the air control open so far, you have tons of heat going up the chimney. If you just slow things down a bit I think you'll sustain high stove top temps longer and the coals will last longer.

Just to give you an idea. This pic is from sometime in Sept or Oct. I didn't need much heat in the house, but I wanted something. This is one way that I have loaded the stove when cold. If I did this at 5:30-6am, I'd expect to get home at 4:30-5 and still have some coals left. Probably would expect this to peak out about 525, maybe 575 on the stove top. Could get it higher if I wanted. Depends on how and when I adjust the air. Since the stove only has ash and no coals in it, I have a bit more wood loaded than I otherwise would have for a small heat output burn for that time period.

Here is what I had today

After pulling the load of coals left for the night burn to the front of the stove this morning, I loaded the stove w/ 3 med to med-large splits at 5:30am. This is what I came home to at 4:45.

With the flash off after raking them a bit

When I came home the house was 66 tonight and I was planning on a bunch of cooking so I didn't want much of a fire, so here's what I put in. The three pieces of wood I put in the stove this morning would be about the size of the largest one seen here in the lower right.

Probably about 2 mins after loading.

About 5 mins after loading.

Here's what it looked like after I turned the air down. The stove side of the air intake spring was about even w/ the ash lip. The flames were larger before I turned it down, and then increased later in the burn again.

Stove topped out about an hour into the burn (probably 10-15 mins after this last pic)

It's about 4 hours after I loaded those 3 splits now and the stovetop is 275. I could easily go several more hours and still have coals to load off of again even w/ that small load.

Obviously, with a burn like this the stove only gave out decent heat for about 2 maybe 2.5 hours. But there is no reason I can't go 6-7 hours and easily relight off of the coals in there.

Every setup is different. You have more draft than me and you'd have to adjust according to that. Different wood and dryness, different ways of loading, split length, etc, etc.

Just showing you what I can and what I see. Don't know if it will work for you, but that's what I have happen here.

pen

 

[BurnIt13]

Thanks for all the posts everyone. I'm learning alot here. Here is a pic at the 3 hour mark. Plenty of coals, the flash kind of washed things out. Stove top is 300, flue is 200. In about 15 minutes I'm going to load 'er up and see where things go. Of course, I will document the process.

(broken image removed)

 

[Hogwildz]

She can't hold much more Captain, she needs some more of those purple Dilithium Crystals!
Beam me up Scotty!!

 

[pen]

Judging by those coals you have hours left if you wanted before reloading (but bed time is coming).

With a good fuel source, I'd rake those coals forward, reload on them for the night, and would be able to have the air set to cruising stage within 10 mins of the reload since there are so many coals on there. I'd want to be awake for another 1/2 hour at least to check on things but for the vast majority of the time, once you get to know that stove and have consistently good fuel, then it's pretty routine. Only time things change is usually when things get windy or very cold, etc, then the stove may act a bit different.

You'll get there. I'm on year 3 with this stove and I'm still learning new stuff. Probably say the same thing at year 10.

pen

 

[BurnIt13]

Okay, its 3.5 hours and things are still going along just fine. Stove top temps around 275, flue around 200. After raking the coals forward a bit I admit I probably have another hour or two before the coals are just about gone. Well I'm tired and will be going to bed in an hour or so, so reloading now is the way for me. Here are the coals raked a bit at 3.5 hours.

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Here is the reload. Sure I could have fit more in there but its not exactly freezing outside and its a bit toasty in here already. On a normal night at this temp - mid to upper 20's - I wouldn't reload. I would save the wood and wake up to a 68 degree house. In the interest of science and woodology I am going to reload. I probably could have fit a few more splits in there but I don't think it is really necessary.

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I closed the door right away. It lit back up within 30 seconds. Within 10 minutes the air was shut down to about 20%. Its been 15 minutes now and I'm waiting a bit for the fire to come back. It got a little weak, probably due to the moisture content.

Stove top temps are 500 and the flue temp is 450. I'll try and keep the stove top temps below or around 550 and then I'll post what I see in the morning.

PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE.

 

[sebring]

No wonder you cant get an overnight burn. You go to bed at 10 and wake up at noon. Just kidding. I would try and get 2 more splits on the top row.

 

[katwillny]

I think I got excited a bit looking at all this wood and coals and fires. The wife is getting jealous and calls this wood porn.

 

[BurnIt13]

UPDATE. At 20 minutes I cut the air down to 5% but it was too late. The temps at 25 minutes were at 700. Shuting down the air any more killed the flames. Its about a quarter of an inch open and things are stabilizing. Flames are coming back and the temp is slowly dropping.

Here it is at 35 minutes with the air open about a quarter of an inch. I call this about 5% ish open. I could have added more but I wanted to see where this took me. Stove top is 600 and the flue is 475.

(broken image removed)

 

[pen]

I closed the door right away. It lit back up within 30 seconds. Within 10 minutes the air was shut down to about 20%. Its been 15 minutes now and I'm waiting a bit for the fire to come back. It got a little weak, probably due to the moisture content.

Stove top temps are 500 and the flue temp is 450. I'll try and keep the stove top temps below or around 550 and then I'll post what I see in the morning.

PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE.

This process sounds a lot better to me! Look forward to hearing how you make out.

pen

 

[Hogwildz]

You don't have to have flames at 700 degrees!
Cut the air all the way back and see what it does. If it holds steady or drops and levels off at an acceptable temp, then your good to go. If it drops to an unacceptable temp, then you know the 5% open i think you said, is enough.
This may be another reason your not getting good burn times, your may be letting more air than needed, thus letting it burn quicker.

 

[BurnIt13]

Well at 45 minutes the stove top went up to 625 and the flue is at 500. I'll back it down a bit more. I would say its an 1/8 inch open. I'll keep an eye on it for a few and head to the sack. I'll update tomorrow AM with a pic of the remaining coals (if any) and the resulting reload. Thanks again for all your help!!

 

[leeave96]

I haven't needed the full brunt of the 30's heating capacity yet, so I limit my stove top to 550ish degrees. I load N/S (tried all kinds of stacking). Lots of time, I put the biggest splits at the sides and fill-in the center. I usually put two rows of splits in the stove, 4 across the bottom and 4 across the top - give or take a few. I burn the stove with the damper wide open and once the stove top temps get over 400 degrees, I damper down in stages. Once it hits 550, I've dampered down to where the spring is flush with the ash lip on the door. If it is colder and the draft is stronger, I can go half way between that and full closed.

Keep working your stove - you will find the right combo to give you the extended burn times you need.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[oldspark]

99% of my night burns in the 30 are three split burns. Sometimes four. I split my wood specifically for that purpose. Slabs. Each standing on edge is about as high as the brick retainers. I load it with three or four, however many allow me to leave an inch of air space between'em, char'em for a while with the air open and then start moving the air down as the stove top comes up. Around 550 I have the spring tip even with the ash lip and get up to a 250 to 300 degree stove with plenty of coals to restart. Nine to ten hours later. If I let the coals go I am getting mellow heat for another couple of hours or so.

For daytime fires when I am here it is the same drill, just smaller splits but three of them in the same arrangement. Do it again at four pm and coals are there at nine for starting all over again with the night load.

Kinda boring actually.

I tried a little bit of the slab thing on edge toninght and so far I'm liking it, four pieces of white ash and the stove got cooking good.

 

[GAMMA RAY]

I want to thank all the posters in this thread. I am still experiencing the learning curve with the 30 and I have had a lot of "pause and reflect" moments. I think I have found my problem by reading this thread. I leave the door cracked too long and wait too long to start turning down the air. I just put some wood in and used the technique you guys explained. I did not even have to crack the door as the wood took off before I shut the door. I shut the air down quicker than I ever did and things are goin well. I am off of work today so I will be interested to see if the burn time is increased. Its gonna be somewhat mild here so I am sure I will just let it go all day and restart tonite before bedtime.

I appreciate the help as well as I am sure the OP does.

 

[BurnIt13]

Okay so a smidge after 9 hours I took a peak at the stove. Surface temps were cool at about 125 but there were a fair amount of coals.

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I added 3 splits to get the fire going again. Sure I could have put some kindling in there first to help things along, but I wanted to see what would happen with just a few splits.

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The door is cracked and its been about 10 minutes. So far all I have is a bunch of smoke. I'm sure if I wait it would eventually take off but I'm impatient. I'm going to put a few pieces of paper in there to light it off. Overall though, this is this is the longest burn time yet.

I probably had usefull heat for 6-7 hours and enough coals at 9 hours. Had I had a deeper bed of coals to begin with last night and put more wood in there, I'm sure thing would be even better. Thank you!

 

[greythorn3]

GOOD THREAD indeed! thanks for the tips guys!

 

[certified106]

Burnit, it looks like you are getting the hang of it now! When I have just enough coals to restart like that I will crack the door just a hair to keep it from smoking until I see some flames then shut the door again.

 

[pen]

Burnit, it looks like you are getting the hang of it now! When I have just enough coals to restart like that I will crack the door just a hair to keep it from smoking until I see some flames then shut the door again.

If you want it going quick you could always pick up and use a set of bellows.

I have an old aluminum arrow shaft that I use to blow on the fire for a sec if I'm impatient and the coals are low, I don't feel like using kindling, etc.

pen