Need to Troubleshoot and Repair My Pleasant Hearth problem

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boatboy63

Member
Feb 6, 2010
205
Northeastern TN
Long time member but not been here in a few years. Had a fire at our old house (not from wood stove) and just installed smaller stove at our new place. Excuse the length of the post but gonna try to cover everything.

So to start with, I bought the stove brand new this past summer from an individual who bought it on clearance, then moved and never installed. It was still in the box and strapped to the crate. It is a Pleasant Hearth WS-2417 and from what I can tell, was made sometime around 2016 or 17. Stove is much smaller than our old Magnolia, but we aren't heating as large of an area. I did remove the DuraVent chimney system from the old place and put it in here. Installed it about 3 months ago and problems started about 2 weeks ago. Firewood was all from neighbor's farm and is oak that has been on ground for over 3 years. We cut, split, and stacked it in a covered woodshed about 8 months ago. According to moisture meter, it is running around 15% moisture so should be fine.

According to stove specs, it requires a minimum of 15' from floor at stove to outlet of pipe above roof. We have a cathedral ceiling with 8' from floor to ceiling, then Duravent pipe adapter is made into box and is in placed in ceiling space. Total distance from adapter to top of pipe is 9' so this is a total of 17' and exceeds their 15' requirement. Pipe also extend over 6' higher than any other roof surface within 20'.

So stove works fine for over 2 months, gasses and puts out good heat. Over about a 10 day period of time, stove seemed to burn slower and cooler each day. Toward the end of this time, the only way to keep a fire going was to leave door cracked until temps went up around 500 degrees on single wall pipe 6" from stove. No damper installed between stove and Duravent adapter. When temps would get up to this range, I would close the door. Within 15 seconds of doing so, flames would go out and would only be left with coals. Wait about 1 minute, crack door open and flames would start roaring again within 15 seconds. Basically same deal each time door is opened or shut. Overall, stove was putting out less than 50% of heat it had been a month ago. To me, it was starving for air.

My first thoughts was that something may have gotten into the intake air system which is simply a triangular slide box on the bottom of the stove with the handle that moves a flat piece of steel over triangular cutout to regulate amount of air. Since stove was already over 5 years old and bought from individual instead of store, warranty would already be out. Decided to check and see if I could find any obstructions. Cleaned all ashes, removed all firebrick, secondary burn tubes, and baffle above burn tubes. I first took a shop vac, put hose on blow side and blew thru secondary pick up port on bottom of stove. I verified proper air moving thru rectangular tubing where secondary tubes go into rectangular tubing. Ended up removing primary air adjusting box on bottom of stove so I could make sure nothing was in box restricting it and get straight access to rectangular tubing in stove. This primary air tubing is approx 3/4" by 2" rectangular steel that forms a square "I__I" inside the stove. The bottom part of it has a slot cut thru the bottom of the stove to allow air from adjusting box into tubing. This bottom part runs to the corners where it turns and goes up the sides on the inside front. The tubing is then cut open on the top sides facing the firebox and behind a steel "curtain" that directs the air back down for the door "wash" effect to keep the glass clean. I connected the shop vac hose on the bottom of the primary air rectangular tubing where the adjuster would be and blew air thru it. Everything worked as it should with air coming out both sides. I also checked to see if air was supplied into the firebox anywhere else and it is not. The door wash is the only place where primary air is supplied to the firebox. It simply comes out of both sides of the top and diverts down the door to meet with the front bottom of the firebox. After not finding a restriction (and cussing for wasting time), I put it all back together and tried a fire. No difference.

The next day, I decided it had to be a draft problem, so I let the fire die and pipes cool. Disassembled the single pipes above the stove, taped garbage bag to square part of pipe adapter that hangs down inside room. I used my brush and extensions to clean pipe from inside of house. I taped small hole in bottom of trash bag to reinforce it in area where my brush extension went thru and held that area with 1 hand to keep junk from falling out in floor. I have done this before in winter and it works to get 80% of pipe clean when too cold outside. I took the 2 single wall pieces of pipe outside and ran brush thru them to make sure they were clean. Honestly, may have gotten a handfull of junk from above ceiling and maybe another from both pipes below ceiling so I didn't think it was enough to cause problem. Reassembled and refired stove. Still, no improvement in firing qualities.

As I was reinstalling single pipes just above stove, I noticed a small gap where the 2 pipes slid together and had the joints staggered (where the flat stovepipe is curled and locked together in a circle). Also noticed that as I stood above cast iron ring at top of stove accepts pipe, I could see a flame in the crack as the door was being closed and flame shooting up into top of stove. Scratch my head time again. Had screws fastening all connections in this ring and at joint where both pipes connected. After thinking for awhile, I went to autoparts store and bought a roll of header tape that was 2" wide and made from fiberglass cloth and impregnated with crushed lava. It is very pliable and is rated for 1500 degrees. I then made 2 wraps around joint at bottom pipe to stove ring, 2 wraps around joint of 2 single pipes, and 2 wraps at very top where pipe went into ceiling box. I then took 6" stainless steel hose clamps and tightened over the wrap to compress and seal each of the joints. Prior to doing this, I verified it was sucking air by using smoke from cigarette around each of these joints and watching smoke disappear into pipes. Once again, fired stove and appeared to help somewhat but still not like stove was doing 2 weeks earlier.

The next day, it was warmer so decided to get on roof, disassemble, inspect, and clean all pipes again. I have (3) 3' pipes from ceiling box to very top of bonnet. As I disassembled each one and cleaned downward, found very little buildup on inside of pipes. I also checked pipes for any evidence of smoke leaking from exhaust area toward insulated area at sealing ends. Everything appeared to be good and no signs as you would see similar to a leaking head gasket for the auto guru's here. The only thing I did find was that 1 of the pipes was slightly loose. We had some good wind recently and that could have been what loosened it. I do have a bracket around the center pipe with 2 braces connected and running to the roof at 60 degree angles. The only pipe I did not take loose is the very bottom pipe that attaches into the ceiling box. With the flashing attached to the roof the way it is, it would take over half a day to remove this flashing to be able to see in there, clean the adhesive weatherstripping I have on it (attached to metal roof) and put it back in.

I beg of any of you if you have any suggestions, please send them my way. Money is an issue so I can't just go out and buy a new stove or new chimney system. I just don't know what else to try. I have even got another load of dry wood and tried it, but same results with flames going out 15 seconds after closing door. If I get it hot enough, it will continue to heat with door closed but any signs of gassing are few and far between. Thanks for reading my long winded post and again, I apologize but just wanted to be thorough in description of the entire system.
 
How are you checking your wood moisture? 15% on oak split 8 months ago is unlikely. Are you bringing a piece in, letting it sit for a day to get to room temperature, then resplitting it and checking on the fresh side of the split?
 
Was the chimney cap's screen thoroughly cleaned so that light shines through it?
 
Yes, it's unlikely an issue with the stove. The wood is the most likely suspect or a plugged chimney cap screen. Take some of the heavier thick splits of oak and warm them up to room temp. Then split them in half and test them at the middle of the freshly exposed, interior face of the wood.
 
How are you checking your wood moisture? 15% on oak split 8 months ago is unlikely. Are you bringing a piece in, letting it sit for a day to get to room temperature, then resplitting it and checking on the fresh side of the split?
I have not been resplitting it. I have been pushing the 3/8" probes in most of the way in multiple areas of different pieces of wood. The tree has been on the ground for over 3 years so I know this sped up the seasoning process. All of the wood we have been burning was cut and brought in at the same time, from the same tree, split within a couple days of each other, and stored in the same covered woodshed. This was all we were burning and didn't have a problem. I did buy a load of "seasoned" oak from a local guy. Said the tree had been down for a couple years and was dry. When we went to get it, he was still splitting it. I could tell when I picked up the first piece, his was not seasoned. Got my moisture meter the next day and his wood is 60% and mine is 15%. You can definitely tell the difference in weight between his and mine. I went ahead and took it and have it stacked in my woodshed now to use maybe next year? Found another load and checked it before buying. It is lightweight and ranges from 10-20%. I am mixing some of that with what little I had left. I understand that just because it is on the ground for 3 years doesn't mean it is seasoned, but what we got from neighbor's farm was already lighter than what we bought from this 1st guy. The 8 months in 90+ degree heat did help to cure out what we had in woodshed, with open sides and wind blowing over it.
 
I did clean the screen off and light is visible thru it. There was maybe 5-10% blocked toward the bottom but is completely open now.
 
I have not been resplitting it. I have been pushing the 3/8" probes in most of the way in multiple areas of different pieces of wood.
That will give a false reading. Wood dries from the outside first. It can read ok on the outside and still be wet on the inside. Wood sitting on the ground soaks up a lot of moisture.

I have some soft maple stacked without cover. It was standing dead. The outside reading of the splits is around 25%. It looks almost ready to burn. After resplitting, the freshly exposed face reads 50%! The wood is half water inside.
 
Sounds like wet wood
I would agree but have checked it and it is good. Some of what I have been burning in it is like featherweight and it still tries to go out. It seems to me that the draft is leaking out somewhere up the pipe but I don't know where. A couple seconds after cracking door open, you can hear the air rushing thru.
 
A couple seconds after cracking door open, you can hear the air rushing thru.
That seems to indicate that the draft is ok. If a nearby door or window is opened 1", does the fire perk up?

It's unlikely to be the problem, but check the air control mechanism and make sure something has not gotten disconnected.
 
Yes, it's unlikely an issue with the stove. The wood is the most likely suspect or a plugged chimney cap screen. Take some of the heavier thick splits of oak and warm them up to room temp. Then split them in half and test them at the middle of the freshly exposed, interior face of the wood.
To be honest, we don't really have any "larger" splits. This stove is tiny compared to the old Magnolia. About the largest splits we have are 4-5" thick in a triangular shaped split. I did split one and it was reading 20% in the middle in multiple areas. The splits are only 15" or so long since it has a small firebox (16x10x8). You can get at most 6 small splits in there if it is totally empty. All the wood we have in here has been in the house for 3-4 days now also.
 
To be honest, we don't really have any "larger" splits. This stove is tiny compared to the old Magnolia. About the largest splits we have are 4-5" thick in a triangular shaped split. I did split one and it was reading 20% in the middle in multiple areas. The splits are only 15" or so long since it has a small firebox (16x10x8). You can get at most 6 small splits in there if it is totally empty. All the wood we have in here has been in the house for 3-4 days now also.
That should burn ok. This is a process of elimination.

until temps went up around 500 degrees on single wall pipe 6" from stove.
That indicates about 1000º flue temps inside the stovepipe. It's getting too hot. Close the door sooner.
 
That seems to indicate that the draft is ok. If a nearby door or window is opened 1", does the fire perk up?

It's unlikely to be the problem, but check the air control mechanism and make sure something has not gotten disconnected.
Doesn't make any difference cracking door or window. To be honest, it is a 30 year old doublewide with original windows. They are going to have to be replaced as they are more than supplying enough leakage to supply draft.

As I mentioned in original post, I had the air control mechanism and housing completely apart. It is a rod with flat steel plate welded to it and slides inside a short metal box with a triangular cutout on the bottom to change air volume. Unless the 4 welds break, it's not going anywhere. I thought maybe it was threaded together and had came apart until I disassembled it and saw what I did.
 
I am gonna try something in a little while. Have a couple errands to run first. When I get back, we have a barn that a neighbor bought recently. Barn is framed with I-beam and he is removing floors and joists to use as equipment storage for his larger farm. The oak sawmill 2x6 and 2x8's have been in there for over 40 years. He just removed them yesterday and I have a stack. Gonna cut some up and run thru stove. He didn't want to reuse due to all the nails. I guarantee they will come in at less than 10% after 40 years of drying. If it still does it, I know it will be a draft problem. I hate to say it, but the only place I have not inspected the pipe is in the pipe adapter box that comes thru the ceiling and the insulated pipe locks into it. I do know that when I pulled it down from our old house that burned, some of the rivets connecting the adapter to the box had broke loose. I did drill and replace them with steel rivets. The only problem is, it will be a few days before it will be warm enough outside to tolerate that and remove the adhesive flashing from the roof.
 
I've been cutting down dead standing hardwood trees that were killed in a huge bushfire exactly 20 years ago. Some of the wood from those is still just above 20% once we get into the guts of them. Wood can take a long time to properly dry in log form.
 
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Don't understand why this post was moved to the Pleasant Hearth forums instead of general, considering it isn't proven to be specific to the brand of the stove.

Update...Called Pleasant Hearth's tech support the other day and it went as I expected. Lady was nice but answers were all scripted and when I described problem I was having, she flipped pages to find applicable possible resolutions. After taking stove completely apart, inspecting, testing orifices, and reassembling, I felt our conversation was more like 3rd grade level after I had already graduated high school. Anyway, I did ask her a specific question about something I had been wondering. The baffle in the top of the stove is like a lightweight refractory material that is roughly 3/4" thick. It was laying directly on top of the secondary burn tubes. This only left about 1" of clearance between the baffle to the door wash curtain that directs the fresh air downward from the sides to the burn area for the smoke to exit the stove thru the top of the pipe. In all honesty, this air wash curtain runs the width of the door and has about 3/8" of clearance at the top where it is open to the top of the stove where the smoke goes toward the pipe. With this small 1" of clearance, I was wondering if it was causing the fresh burn air to be drawn over the top of this curtain and pulled directly out the pipe. Considering the firebox didn't want to keep burning without the door being cracked. There is a small ledge at the back of the stove above the back secondary burn tube that the rear of the baffle will perfectly fit into. According to my owner's manual, it shows a picture of a cutaway of the stove and shows the baffle sitting directly on top of 4 burn tubes, even though I only have 3 in it and there is not a place for a 4th tube. I asked her and she claimed it sat on the ledge. After doing this and starting a fire, the stove does seem to behave better. It allows maybe 1.75" of clearance between the baffle and the door wash curtain for the smoke to exit. It is evident that the primary area is getting more air as the coals are actually glowing now and fire is burning better, but still not as before. For now, I will leave it this way.

Now for the big update about the 40 year cured oak 2x6 boards. I cut a few and tried them out. I placed 2 in the stove on top of a bed of glowing coals. It took awhile for them to catch, but after about 45 minutes, I did have very good heat with the door closed and they were gassing. The heat continued for about 2 hours only from (2) 15" pieces of them. This is the most heat I have gotten from the stove in a couple of weeks and from a smaller volume of wood. I know this stuff was dry. I think this made a difference as well as the baffle being moved back some.

Even though it appears things are better, they still aren't back to where they were a month ago. Temps are supposed to be in low 60's here tomorrow and Wednesday. I guess I am gonna bite the bullet, climb up on the roof and look at this bottom 3' section of pipe where it connects to the inside pipe adapter. Just hate having to cut loose all the adhesive weatherstripping and pull it all back apart. I just feel there is still a problem somewhere that has yet to be addressed. When I first installed this thing, it drafted like crazy. It just seems like it is sucking fresh air into the pipe somewhere causing it to lose some of the vacuum from the draft. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
***DISCLAIMER - I NO LONGER OWN MY PLEASANT HEARTH WS-2417 AS WE SOLD IT
WITH OUR PREVIOUS HOUSE WHEN WE MOVED THE END OF LAST YEAR***



Same stove, multiple years of use, one year of absolute frustration the first year, happy to try and help you out.

Couple of questions for you @boatboy63 .

  1. Tell me about the condition of your door glass.
  2. Do you have any buildup of coals?
  3. What kind of cap do you have? In reading through this thread my first keyboard diagnosis would be that you are attempting to burn wet wood. My strong second suspicion is that your cap is clogged.
  4. Do you have any smoke escape when you open the door?

These cheap little stoves can be quite nice for heating but everything must be absolutely correct and pretty much any little thing being out of spec can cause them to be worthless.

If the joint (collar) between the stove pipe and the top of the stove is not sealed your stove will struggle. Remember that the chimney is the engine that drives the stove. I sealed mine with rockwool and a steel belt secured with stainless steel hose or pipe clamps.


For that matter the stove pipe must be one "solid" piece from stove top to the top cap. On my stove at the old house the flue was flexible stainless - not segmented pipe sections. There is nothing wrong with segmented pipe sections but the seams do need to be air tight.

I have a couple of threads explaining the modifications or steps I have taken to make my stove as efficient as possible.


 
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***DISCLAIMER - I NO LONGER OWN MY PLEASANT HEARTH WS-2417 AS WE SOLD IT
WITH OUR PREVIOUS HOUSE WHEN WE MOVED THE END OF LAST YEAR***



Same stove, multiple years of use, one year of absolute frustration the first year, happy to try and help you out.

Couple of questions for you @boatboy63 .

  1. Tell me about the condition of your door glass.
  2. Do you have any buildup of coals?
  3. What kind of cap do you have? In reading through this thread my first keyboard diagnosis would be that you are attempting to burn wet wood. My strong second suspicion is that your cap is clogged.
  4. Do you have any smoke escape when you open the door?

These cheap little stoves can be quite nice for heating but everything must be absolutely correct and pretty much any little thing being out of spec can cause them to be worthless.

If the joint (collar) between the stove pipe and the top of the stove is not sealed your stove will struggle. Remember that the chimney is the engine that drives the stove. I sealed mine with rockwool and a steel belt secured with stainless steel hose or pipe clamps.


For that matter the stove pipe must be one "solid" piece from stove top to the top cap. On my stove at the old house the flue was flexible stainless - not segmented pipe sections. There is nothing wrong with segmented pipe sections but the seams do need to be air tight.

I have a couple of threads explaining the modifications or steps I have taken to make my stove as efficient as possible.


1. As for the door glass, stove has been up and running for over 3 months. Have never cleaned the glass. It pretty much stays clean on it's own. If it does try to darken at all when allowed to chug down and burn out on a warmer day, it cleans itself off as soon as it is fired back up and comes to temp. I do remember reading your post about finding a loose clamp on your glass. I will check mine. Just wondering why there aren't any clamps on the ends but almost overkill on the top and bottom.

2. On cold days when I run it hard, I do get a build up of coals in the bottom but they continue to glow red and burn as fire keeps going.

3. The cap is the standard DuraVent flat top type with chicken wire around it and about 4-6" height from bottom to top of cap. Cap is not clogged as it was just cleaned out last week when I cleaned the pipes and disassembled and inspected the pipes while doing so.

4. No problem with smoke coming out of door when it is open. Not had a problem with that one single time.

I did notice a gap at the stove collar where the bottom pipe goes into the stove and also a small gap at the joint above it where the 2 connect together, even with screws. I bought header tape like what is used on engine headers and made 2 wraps around each joint and then clamped them with stainless steel hose clamps. Since my DuraVent pipe is in 3' segments, I do wish there was a way of sealing each in addition to the locking mechanism they have on each section.

You mentioned the thoughts of me possibly trying to burn wet wood. I have even tried burning 40 year old cut barn lumber (oak 2x6) that has been in the dry since it was framed. The wood puts off great heat, but takes probably 30-45 minutes to get it up and going when put on coals. I have to agree that it appears that somewhere, the pipe is not air tight and is losing it's draft. I just can't find the source.
 
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1. As for the door glass, stove has been up and running for over 3 months. Have never cleaned the glass. It pretty much stays clean on it's own. If it does try to darken at all when allowed to chug down and burn out on a warmer day, it cleans itself off as soon as it is fired back up and comes to temp. I do remember reading your post about finding a loose clamp on your glass. I will check mine. Just wondering why there aren't any clamps on the ends but almost overkill on the top and bottom.

2. On cold days when I run it hard, I do get a build up of coals in the bottom but they continue to glow red and burn as fire keeps going.

3. The cap is the standard DuraVent flat top type with chicken wire around it and about 4-6" height from bottom to top of cap. Cap is not clogged as it was just cleaned out last week when I cleaned the pipes and disassembled and inspected the pipes while doing so.

4. No problem with smoke coming out of door when it is open. Not had a problem with that one single time.

I did notice a gap at the stove collar where the bottom pipe goes into the stove and also a small gap at the joint above it where the 2 connect together, even with screws. I bought header tape like what is used on engine headers and made 2 wraps around each joint and then clamped them with stainless steel hose clamps. Since my DuraVent pipe is in 3' segments, I do wish there was a way of sealing each in addition to the locking mechanism they have on each section.

You mentioned the thoughts of me possibly trying to burn wet wood. I have even tried burning 40 year old cut barn lumber (oak 2x6) that has been in the dry since it was framed. The wood puts off great heat, but takes probably 30-45 minutes to get it up and going when put on coals. I have to agree that it appears that somewhere, the pipe is not air tight and is losing it's draft. I just can't find the source.
Well without being there to see it in person I am wondering if the seams of your flue not being airtight are affecting your ability to create adequate draft. This is where I would start my investigation. Air making it's way into the flue will take the place of the air that should be coming in through the primary or secondary intake - it also would cool down the flue making the whole process less efficient.

I still have a nagging feeling that your wood is not as dry as you think it is.
  1. When you check the MC of your wood are you pushing the probes in as deep into the wood as you can get them?
  2. Are your probes running with the wood grain or across the wood grain?
Not asking to be a smart-alec; just trying to make sure we are covering all the possibilities and that we are going about the process of elimination correctly.

The only other thing I can think of is some kind of freak pressure occurrence just in your area but I would expect this to dissipate rather quickly.
 
Well without being there to see it in person I am wondering if the seams of your flue not being airtight are affecting your ability to create adequate draft. This is where I would start my investigation. Air making it's way into the flue will take the place of the air that should be coming in through the primary or secondary intake - it also would cool down the flue making the whole process less efficient.

I still have a nagging feeling that your wood is not as dry as you think it is.
  1. When you check the MC of your wood are you pushing the probes in as deep into the wood as you can get them?
  2. Are your probes running with the wood grain or across the wood grain?
Not asking to be a smart-alec; just trying to make sure we are covering all the possibilities and that we are going about the process of elimination correctly.

The only other thing I can think of is some kind of freak pressure occurrence just in your area but I would expect this to dissipate rather quickly.
Totally understand where you are coming from. I have measured it with wood grain and across. Even made fresh split with what I have in house and new split is still within 5% of what outside is. I know this 40 year old barn wood isn't wet and is still slow about starting. It does give off good heat after it finally gets going. The crazy thing about all of this is that everything was fine a couple weeks ago. No problems with draft, the wood we are burning was all cut at the same time from the same tree, split and stacked under the same covered woodshed and cured the same amount of time. The problem (coincidence) did start as this wood supply started running low and before I had to buy a load. We did have some 50 mph wind here about the time the suspected draft issue started. I did find 1 of the (3) 3' sections to be slightly loose last week when I checked but locked it back in place. Supposed to be 65 degrees today and then rain start back tomorrow and colder by end of week. Gonna get on roof shortly and pull pipes back apart and dreadfully, try to take bottom pipe out of ceiling box and check it too. If I can't get it back in properly, I will be spending at least 4 hours having to heat and remove all adhesive "Peel and Seal" weatherstripping used to seal the flashing to my metal roof. I did make a brace for the pipe and it is clamped around the middle section of pipe with 2 legs spaced about 60 degrees apart to remove the sway from the wind.

I am not exactly a novice when it comes to wood burning. Have been doing it for over 10 years with much of it being 24/7 during the winter and primary source of heat. Been thru the high wind downdrafts mid winter when the room fills with smoke. Also been thru the wet wood syndrome when you run out and are desperate and have to run with door open just to get any heat from the wet wood. I do agree that symptoms appear to be moisture related, but nothing is showing proof of it. I am still leaning toward a leak in the draft somewhere. Just seems like it takes forever to get enough heat built up to keep it drawing good thru the pipe. It wasn't like this when I first set it up. I will figure it out. It's just the stress of trying to find the answer before it gets cold again and I need the heat.