New Guy - Got Some Bad News Today

[jkmola]

Greetings. After dropping around 5k in propane last winter, thought I'd better start looking at other options. I have a fireplace, so started looking at inserts. First one that caught my eye (looks mainly) was the Quadrafire Grand Voyageur. Started researching and looking for similar units - which is when I quickly learned that there are soooooo many other units. I've been lurking here for a few weeks trying to learn all I can, but it can be overwhelming.

First today's bad news - I can't do ANYTHING until I extend my hearth. I have a raised hearth (one foot) that is also one foot wide. Dealer told me I must have 16" from the face of whatever unit I have. That would protrude directly out into a main traffic area in my living room, which is where the fireplace is located, on kind of the "feature" wall. However, it will have to be done and I think I'm capable so I consider that just a speedbump in the road. It does push back the start of my wood burning career, though.

Also the dealer, which carries about 6 or 7 brands including QF, Jotul, Enviro, Hearthstone, etc, didn't want to talk about anything other than PE stoves. I literally could not get him to shut up about how much better they are. So now I don't know if he honestly believes that? Or, if he simply gets better commisions or is overstocked on them. When I asked about the Clydesdale - Oh, it's a nice stove but the PE is so much better. And so on for the QF, the Rockland, and others. Are they really THAT good?

Things that I consider important, but willing to compromise to some degree on if needed are good looks (kind of important, it'll be in the living room)
Decent sized fire box (would at least like hot coals left in the morning)
Better than avg viewing glass size

Informationally, so you can get a feel for the type of unit that interests I've researched the following:

QF Grand Voyageur
Clydesdale
Enviro Boston or Cabello 1700
Hampton HI400
PE Alderlea T5 Insert
Jotul Rockland

If you know of some other units that I might find interesting and should research, I would welcome your suggestions. Thanks, and nice meeting you all.

 

[Thislilfishy]

...around here you need a minimum of 18" from the face...

 

[Hogwildz]

The PE is a beautiful insert and great performer, but not sure why the dealer won't discuss any other ones.
Some of those others are also great looking and operating inserts.
If the dealer won't give you the info and service you desire, time to find another dealer.
Got to all the websites, get the photos & specs, and decide what you want. Do not let a dealer tell you what you want.
All that aside, I would probably go for the PE Alderlea myself. Just personal choice.
Sadly, no equivalent to a Summit Sized box yet.
Don't forget to compare warranties also. They are pretty much beasts for heating, but every once in a while some things get through QC, that shouldn't.
I'd be putting in the insert with the biggest firebox I could fit in the old fireplace.

 

[Heatsource]

...around here you need a minimum of 18" from the face...

canada eh?
different in the US

 

[prezes13]

If you want a long burns nothing beats bk princess insert. If you are considering HI400 I would look at lopi-Avalon hybrid stoves a bit bigger fire box.

 

[velvetfoot]

I know my insert just needed ember protection. You could get away with something less than a massive brick job, and still make it look good, I bet.

 

[tarzan]

While PE makes a fine stove from what I've heard and seen don't buy into the dealers hype.

You will get plenty of good advice here on choosing a stove but I promise you whatever you chose will need dry (20% and under moisture) wood or you will not be happy.

 

[rdust]

Plop a hearth pad extension down in front of it for now and be done with it. http://www.hayneedle.com/product/he...ku=HEAR018-1&gclid=CIfL6s2i2sECFRc2aQodq1UAaw

I agree with Hog, find a new dealer who is willing to discuss all their stoves. He probably just ordered a bunch of PE stoves so they're the best thing he has right now. PE stoves are great stoves but there are plenty of great stoves on the market.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Yep it should only need ember protection out that far, build that in at floor level..

 

[mass_burner]

Couldn't you just lay down a 6" wide piece of thick glass. I'm at 5" and 15" on my inserts.

 

[Sprinter]

Yep it should only need ember protection out that far, build that in at floor level..

That's right. Most stoves require ember protection but few require any insulation value. A layer of ceramic tiles in front would do it, or any number of other options.

As for the dealer, many dealers will want to push one brand or another at times. Sometimes they will be getting a special dealer incentive or something. Or maybe a floor salesperson has personal preferences and is a little too vocal about them. But I wouldn't ditch the dealership. Just do your own research as you are. Having said that, the PE may actually be the best choice for you in the dealer's opinion depending on your needs.

 

[jkmola]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Nice to know that I have a few other options available to me when it comes to the hearth extension. I'll research that a bit, and come up with a solution that best fits my wants/needs.

Roger that on the wood moisture. I've already ordered a meter, should be here in the next day or two.

I have quite a few brochures on various mfr's inserts. I'll keep going over them until one starts to jump out at me. I read the reviews here on the Alderlea, but there were only two. It's nice and I like it, but I got a little confused at his gushing over it. Usually, I default to the - if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Hence my question here. Nice to know that it's a good unit, but nice to know the others are too. I need to pick up my game a little - it was 22 degrees this morning when I got up.

 

[Grisu]

The Alderlea T5 is in essence the same insert as the PE Super just with a different face. Having the Super myself I can say I am fully satisfied with the unit and I would have a hard time coming up with a negative. (Maybe the flimsy gasket that goes around the air channel and which either needs to be replaced after every cleaning or you make your own from some gasket rope.) In your case, it may not score that highly on the large viewing area as its firebox is more long than wide. On the other hand, that makes it a N-S loader which most people prefer.

Nevertheless, you are looking at a lot of quality units there. You will probably very satisfied with either of them. Just make sure to have enough dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20% to feed your insert of choice.

 

[Brae09]

jkmola, I am in the same situation as you, looking for an insert and almost have the same list as yours. I am replacing a VC Winterwarm. And just as you said that this forum had been the best help in researching.

I originally ruled out VC Merrimack and Montpelier, but I am reconsidering it, although the Montpelier might to be a little too small for my situation. With Merrimack, I am not sure of the 2-door configuration and also the fan quality I read about. I think both of these two are good looking. And I like the large viewing windows. Montpelier is close to Winterwarm in its heating capacity.

I need an insert with the door handle on the right. That actually rules out quite a few of these good ones. And I decided I like the cast iron look better than steel.

With QF Voyageur Grand, a dealer told me that it has the largest viewing window. But I couldn't find a square inch figure. Does anyone know? Montpeilier is 272 and Merrimack is 330.

My hearth is 2 feet deep and I don't want to make any changes there. So some of the protruding style inserts will not work, like QF 5000i. Enviro Boston 1700 cuts pretty close in that respect. The other factor is the current wooden trim around the VC. I think it might be designed and built for the size of the cast iron surround of that insert. So I need to find something similar in size (another reason to reconsider Montepelier). I believe the Enviro's cast iron surround is too big for me. I will find out today if QF Voyageur Grand will fit.

One question for the experienced members here. During a power outage, the blower will not work, obviously. Can you damage an insert by burning it without a fan? I am not too concerned about the heat not being blown out since it will go into the surrounding structure and still end up in the house eventually.

Here is a pic of my current setup with the VC in place, which I shared in another thread. The hearth is 4 feet wide by 2 feet deep. The tile area behind the surround is 39 inches tall. The opening is 35 inches wide and 32 inches tall.

Thanks to everyone who has been so helpful.

(broken image removed)

 

[mstoelton]

Many quality stoves are available. You need to figure out which will fit in your opening and then choose.

I really like the Clydesdale, I have 2 of them. I also see that the folks that have PE stoves and inserts are very positive on them.

Personally, I like the soapstone liner of the clyde as it tends to even out the heating curve due to it's mass. I also had to extend my raised hearth, so I chose to get a piece of soapstone counter top material to do so. It has worked really well, and I was able to extend the hearth top only leaving the hearth base as is, and only adding some 2 inch wide 1/4 inch thick steel straps under the hearthstone for support.

If you are really interested in a Clydesdale there is a Hearhtstone dealer close to SE Michigan that has good pricing (below list) on many of the hearthstone products. PM me if interested, I will give you the info. I'm not in any way affiliated. I just like the Clydesdale.

 

[Clyde S. Dale]

Another vote for the Hearthstone Clydesdale.

Clyde

 

[xSpecBx]

Have you thought about pellet stoves instead of the wood stove? Distance to combustibles, hearth width, etc are typically lower from what I have seen. I only need 8 inches from the front of my stove to the edge of the hearth for my pellet stove.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I literally could not get him to shut up about how much better they are.

He's right


The two biggest question you have to answer are as follows

1) What do you want the stove to do? Do you want it to completely replace your propane? Do you want your propane bill cut in half?

2) How big is your house and how is it laid out? Bigger house w/more open floor plan = bigger stove. Smaller house = smaller stove. Bigger house w/closed off floor plan = smaller stove.

 

[jkmola]

As to the pellet issue - I did look, a little. I really prefer the look of a wood fire, and aesthetics are important as the fireplace is in my main living space. Which is why I won't buy a BK Princess - it's just tooooooo ugly. Haha. I also have the ability to cut if not all, at least most of my own firewood. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

1) Not sure if I can completely eliminate my propane - but I sure as hell want to make a run at it. Bigger the dent, the better.

2) House is 2800sq/ft, 1400 lower level, 1400 upper. Mostly open with just a staircase/short wall in the center of it all.

Got a quote today on a Hampton HI400 - little bit higher than I expected, but it did include the liner and installation. Still shopping and comparing.

 

[Grisu]

Before deciding on the Hampton you may want to look at this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-ci2600-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/
And for 2800 sqft you will need a big insert (assuming the fireplace is on the lower level). Take also a look at the Osburn 2400, PE Summit, Lopi Freedom, Lopi Large Flush Hybrid Fyre, Quadrafire 5100i, Regency i3100 and if you can fit an 8" liner down the chimney the Kuma Sequoia.

 

[mikeszak]

Clyde is the man of my house.... we are at least 3750 sqft with two floors and high ceilings. we turned our heat on yesterday for the first time, it was in the teen's overnight. I can not speak to the other brands, I can only say that the Hearthstone Clydesdale is a heat pumping monster! use good seasoned wood and you will wipeout your propane bill (the layout of your house and location of the unit is important too). additionally, the Clydesdale has a huge window and the glass stays clear (so long as you burn correctly). it is a very handsome stove that really does look like a fireplace fire. the soapstones in the firebox really make a huge difference, they hold the heat for a long time and the stove continues to pump out heat even after the fire dwindles to ash. big firebox allows 22" logs (I have used 24"). the fire is very easily controlled with the "throttle". I am not saying anything bad about the other models, I simply do not know.. I shopped around, decided on "Clyde" and have never looked back or reconsidered my choice, my entire family is pleased and everyone who walks into our house is jealous. Literally EVERYBODY asks us about it. good luck

 

[jkmola]

Just to close, I ended up ordering the Clydesdale yesterday morning. It wasn't the best choice in every category, but it had the best combination. Should be able to go get it in 7-10 days.