Yes I get that but any stove will burn wet wood. The only benefit to this one is the big firebox so you can load allot of wet wood on a hot fire and maintain a decent amount of heat output while you dry the wood. But it will still make an absolute mess of the chimney. And the complicated smoke path in the back will quickly clog with crap as well. Also in an extreme situation like you are saying burning your house down due to a chimney fire would be very bad right? I have heard the myth that top loaders dry the wood in the stove much better than front or side loaders and it simply is not true at all.
New home build-needs a new wood stove- recommendations?
- Thread starter RUMBLON
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Squirrely
Feeling the Heat
He didn't say "loading a lot of wet wood".
He only referenced burning less than ideally seasoned wood in an emergency survival situation. It's fine if you want to express your view, as long as it's with the understanding that you are responding to words he didn't actually write.
Greg
Squirrely
Feeling the Heat
Insulation offers the most effect for the least cost. We found that the more open the structure, the thicker the walls needed to be, and ended up with 8 inch studs and 12 inch joists, which are good for about 25R and 37R respectively, stuffed with fiberglass batts.
Greg
No i am responding to you posting the idea that you can dry wood inside a top loader with any fewer problems than any other stove. Try to follow along. If he likes his stove that is great. They are not bad stoves at all. I think they are horribly overpriced for what it is but they are well built stoves that work reasonably well.
I only have issues with people who give out innacurate irresponsible and possibly dangerous advice to people. And telling them that you can dry wood inside this stove is exactly that.
But back to the original question you need to go big you will be heating lots of cubic feet you are going to need a big stove to keep up.
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JSeery
Feeling the Heat
1. Awesome property and a really inspiring story. I'm excited to see how this place turns out and it looks like you are well on your way to a great retirement.
2. Back to the original question, I'm a little surprised no one has suggested the Englander 30-NCH. I don't have one b/c my setup doesn't really work for it, but it seems to match your general high quality/low price theme and should be able to heat that space. Big 3.5 cu ft firebox should give you enough burn time and I think it would be hard to find a more high quality stove for the price. Just my 2 cents.
2. Back to the original question, I'm a little surprised no one has suggested the Englander 30-NCH. I don't have one b/c my setup doesn't really work for it, but it seems to match your general high quality/low price theme and should be able to heat that space. Big 3.5 cu ft firebox should give you enough burn time and I think it would be hard to find a more high quality stove for the price. Just my 2 cents.
That englander 30 is pretty cheap. Thanks for the complements. Im now building my hearth base. I have attached a few pics. This base is 2x8 with one inch flooring. On top of that will be cement board them 2 - 2 1/2 flagstone.
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Ok, so I like the look of the quadrafire. I also like the look of the Blazeking ashford. That said, the Blazeking has longer burn times as its catalytic. It also looks like you cant really see the flamed in such a stove?
My question is this, if you enjoy the flame and visual of a wood stove, is the catalytic not the stove for us? And are catalytic stoves better?
Thanks RUMBLON
My question is this, if you enjoy the flame and visual of a wood stove, is the catalytic not the stove for us? And are catalytic stoves better?
Thanks RUMBLON
For those interested I have my 3 inch live edge slab in place. Looking for some decent base cabinets or buffet ect to use in the butlers pantry and then I will cut and install the live edge counters in there. I wont sand, work the wood until Im doing finish work as it makes a nice surface for now for tool ect and once its done then I have to be careful.
This granite isnt staying. It came with the cabinets. My wife is going to gel coat the cabinets in a slightly darker more rich color so the wood grains show through nicer. She has some nice granite picked that will come MUCH MUCH later.
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HisTreeNut
Minister of Fire
I have a Buck 94NC (burn tubes, no cat) and it is a good heater for my situation. As for the flame show from HE stoves in general, you get a smaller flame show but it is much different from the "traditional chimney warmer fireplace." We get a smaller flame show from the wood burning [but fun and relaxing to watch], a cool show as the smoke ignites, and get tons more heat. A fair trade-off IMHO as we are heating an almost 2200 sq' ranch solely by our Buck.
JSeery
Feeling the Heat
Cat stoves are more efficient if operated correctly, and can do much longer burns. For some people, that makes them better, but not for everyone. Some people seem to like a traditional burn better or don't want to potentially deal with replacing a catalyst down the road (which can be expensive). Even non-cat stoves these days are pretty efficient, though.
I have a hybrid stove (cat plus one burn tube) and I still get quite a show. If you are doing a really long low burn on a catalytic stove, there's not as much of a show as on a traditional stove, but you still see flames at the beginning of the cycle and can also see occasional secondary flare ups later on in the process. I don't have any experience with BK stoves but I know there are a lot of BK heads on this site who can give more details on that particular stove. (The Blaze King Ashford seems to have a real following around here so I'm assuming it really is a great stove.)
I'm guessing that you'll have darker glass with the catalytic stove due to the nature of the burn and that the overall visual effect is not as nice as a standard EPA stove, but it seems like that's a trade a lot of people here are willing to make (for longer burn times and greater efficiency).
If you want to consider a hybrid, the Regency F3500 might be a good option (very similar to my Regency insert, which I'm pretty happy with):
https://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Stoves/F3500
JSeery, what do you mean " if operated correctly"? What is the difference. I may be willing if there is still some flame but I would like a more efficient stove, especially as i get older and will use less wood. How is operating it different than say my Jotul?
Thx RUMBLON
I'm planning a new home and have pretty much settled on a Woodstock Ideal Steal. It's a catalytic but with a glass door.
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That soapstone is nice looking than the other ones I was looking at. what do the cost? delivered.
I have another question. When I pull of these stoves and their clearances, they give clearances to combustible surfaces. I dont see the clearances for them if they are sitting up against river rock, ect? Am I suppose to just add the depth of the rock and if that the answer then when using real river rock that means by depth changes by the piece. I would think they would give a clearance to non contestable surfaces?
also, is there a set clearance on pipe, single double wall ect and Im guessing the higher you go the less the clearance has to be. Im planning a mantle maybe 5 feet above the hearth pad and need to know how far the pipe has to stay away from the wood log mantle.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I have owned cat and noncat stoves on the same hearth. I also currently own one of each. We heat 100% with wood in WA at nearly 1000' ASL.
The cat stoves (BK or Woodstock are superior to the others) are fully capable of a flaming fire just as long as any other stove but to get flames you will not be burning at the very low burn rate. Noncats are almost always flaming because they are unable to be burned at such a very low burn rate without polluting the world with smoke. Efficiency between the technologies is not terribly different with an edge to the cat stove. The biggest upside to a cat stove is the very wide range of available heat outputs so you can have a very low burning fire for 30 hours or a very hot burning fire for 10 hours. At the low end, no flames, at the upper end you get flames.
Operating the BK cat stove is very different than a non-cat like your Jotul. You load the stove to the roof, get the fire going, engage cat, set thermostatic intake, and don't do anything else for the duration of the burn which is 10-30 hours. Only the BK has a thermostatic intake but even without it, there should be less fiddling that you're used to.
In Idaho, Kuma makes a big cat stove that is very efficient. Needs an 8" flue though. The rest of their stoves are ho-hum.
https://www.kumastoves.com/Store/ProductDetails/sequoia
If you do go non-cat, don't waste your money on an expensive stove. The NC30 is a beast and really leaves nothing to be desired. Ask yourself, what do you get when you pay 3-5 times as much for a competitor's plate steel stove? I'm super critical and see very little room for improvement with the NC30. I like it so much I bought a pellet BBQ from the same brand.
I've owned a hearthstone non-cat stone stove. The stone is marketed as a great material and it does look great. It's a crappy material to build a stove with though. Takes forever to heat up. The cat stoves with stone are meant to be run 100% of the time so you minimize the warm up drawbacks.
Your thread questions are very loaded and lots of opinions will exist. You asked the cat vs. non-cat question which is often a big debate, you asked the stone vs. steel question which is another frequent debate.
I think we all can agree that you need a big stove. Nothing smaller than the 30 series BK stoves. You are trying to be 100% wood heat in Idaho probably burning doug fir. You need a lot of available heat.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
The required clearance to combustibles is exactly that. Clearance to combustibles. If the first combustible needs to be 6" away and you provide that, then you can fill the 6" space with non-combustible stuff like rock if you would like. You can slam the stove right up against a concrete wall so long as there is nothing combustible within the clearance spec.
Pipe has a separate clearance to combustible. Double wall requires 6" and single wall is 16 or 18", forget. You can make your mantle out of something non-combustible and then it may be within that clearance.
Very good and informative post over all but I disagree with this statement. I will say I have never run a 30 but have heard lots of the complaints here and have installed a few. And for the price they are fantastic. But there are without a doubt better built and performing non cat stoves out there. You yourself have complained about the unrestricted air coming in the dog house that is not true of many other stoves. They also seem to have issues with their stove fronts not being flat which leads to a bad seal on the door.
So again for the price a great stove but there are a few draw backs
Highbeam, thanks a lot for the info on Kuma. I just spent a half hour with them on the phone in regards to the Sequoia or their other stoves.
I have a couple of questions as they raised some issues I may have in regards to the Sequoia. First the 8 inch pipe requires more clearance as dose the stove. 10 inches of air clearance between the wall/ no matter the surface, stone wood ect. Second, KUMA feels that the stove MAY be too big for my application. Im also trying decide is a CAT stove is right for me. The folks at KUMA feel that this stove which is rated for a 3500 sq ft home may be too much even when turned down in the fall and spring. My wife is also use to fiddling with the stove I am worried she may not use the CAT correctly.
They suggested their "WOOD CLASSIC" stove. which is a non CAT stove. I do like the idea of buying from an idaho company and their warranty is very good on the SEQUOIA and other stoves. They felt the WOOD CLASSIC was more suited to my home size, even with the wall of windows that may reduce my R value on the wall near the stove. They did say that this infrmation was open to interpretation and not to discount other views. The WOOD CLASSIC has a much easier clearance of 4 inches to deal with an is more suitable to my cornet application.
Just curious on what you may think since you didnt seem to be big on their other stoves, other than the Sequoia. Their WOOD CLASSIC basis mod is roughly $1950 bucks.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Glad you talked to Kuma. They have an employee that has visited this site and I have to give them credit for putting up awesome efficiency numbers for the sequoia. The 8" pipe doesn't require any more clearance than 6" as measured from the surface of the pipe but as measured from the centerline yes, 8" pipe is 1" bigger. Weird that they require 10" clearance to anything and not to combustibles as the rest of the industry. The thing must need air movement to not melt itself!?
We all live in climates that go from cold in the winter to hot in the summer. Most stoves only have a pretty narrow range of outputs when burning cleanly so if you size a stove large enough to heat all winter then it will be too big when you only need a little bit of heat in the fall. This is part of the charm of heating 100% with wood. Sometimes you let the room temps go up and down, sometimes you build smaller fires, sometimes you can burn every other day. All woodstoves are too big to heat with in the summer! No woodstove seems big enough when you return from vacation in the winter to a 50 degree house and want it to be 72 in a hurry. The sequoia is only 3.6 cubic feet which is about the same as the NC30 that I own. I would not want anything smaller in your situation.
BK is made in Walla Walla so also a pretty local manufacturer to you and also will talk with you on the phone. Other than efficiency, the BK kills the Kuma in performance. Most important to us full time wood heaters is burn time and the necessary range of outputs to get long burn times. The king burns for 40 hours without messing with it and the 30 series stoves for 30 hours. This is due to the WIDE range of available outputs.
Kuma's other models are just plain plate steel non-cat stoves, all very small. In fact so small that I would not recommend any of them for any house wanting to keep a fire overnight. The biggest non-cat from Kuma is the one they recommended to you, the classic, at 2.3 cubic feet and 70k peak btu. That is only a little bit less btu than the sequoia at 90k but much less efficient. None of the kumas are rated for more than 14 lowsy hours of output which tells me that they do not have a "low" setting.
Finally, the wife factor. Well, nobody has to fiddle with a big cat stove full of fuel once it is rolling along and I'm home every day to reload. That's the beauty, they are boring to run. I fiddle with the NC30 constantly to keep it hot but not too hot. When I leave the house in the winter the wife has run the cat stove and has done fine. There are ways to damage any stove cat or non-cat if she doesn't do what she is supposed to.
Give BK a call too. Woodstocks are pretty cool, you might like the ideal steel model but shipping it here from Vermont is not cheap!
For Ideal Steel clearance dimensions, go to the link below, right side & click "Installation" under Ideal Steel.
They give clearance to stove & pipe. Even if you put an inch of rock on wallboard, the combustible clearance is still measured to the wallboard. (the rock transmits heat).
To be non-combustible, a one inch gap must be left between the rock & wallboard. The gap must be open at the edges too for air circulation.
Double wall pipe, pipe shields, etc. reduce clearances.
What first attracted me was its top place on EPA's clean burning stove list.
http://www.woodstove.com/support
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They give clearance to stove & pipe. Even if you put an inch of rock on wallboard, the combustible clearance is still measured to the wallboard. (the rock transmits heat).
To be non-combustible, a one inch gap must be left between the rock & wallboard. The gap must be open at the edges too for air circulation.
Double wall pipe, pipe shields, etc. reduce clearances.
What first attracted me was its top place on EPA's clean burning stove list.
http://www.woodstove.com/support
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Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Not true unless it is a unique Woodstock thing. The way you do it is you measure to the actual non-combustible surface unless the specific manufacturer of your specific product tells you otherwise in that specific stove's manual.
The days of the one inch gap heat shield to reduce stove clearances are mostly gone now.
Yet another question. What about fresh air inlet? I guess I have to call the state inspector about that? Do most areas require a 4 inch fresh air inlet into the stove these days on new home installations ?
With both the insurance company and local inspection (if required) just inquire, don't tell them you are doing it yet. Ask your insurance company what they would required if you have a wood stove installed. Ask if DIY is ok and if so do they require documentation. See what they say. Same with the local inspecting authority. See what is required and who does the inspections. In some towns it's the local fireman. If they actually have a building dept. mechanical inspector then I would recommend making drawings first that show critical clearances, parts used, supports for chimney, pass thrus or support boxes, etc.. You can try out your drawings here first if that is the case. Ask if an outside air supply is required for the stove. It may be for tight new construction and is a good idea.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I am a fan of outside air for combustion. It will never be too cold to hurt the fire but sucking heated room air into the stove for combustion means you are sucking cold outside air into the house which will then need to be heated. In your climate, you also need to consider that this outside air being sucked into the cracks will be very dry in the winter and lower your humidity even more. Another consideration which is a real issue is that when you turn on a ventilation fan for an appliance like the clothes dryer, range hood, etc. you can actually suck chimney air back into the house!
I suck air from my ventilated crawlspace into the stove. This way I am venting the crawl but also, being under the house, there is no wind or snow accumulation issues to worry about. I attached a photo of the OAK plumbing. It was required by my county (Pierce County/Tacoma) or the install would have failed inspection.
In my shop I have no outside air feed to the stove. It is a slab and the stove is not on an outside wall so I can't do it cleanly. That shop is not as air tight as my home anyway.
One last thing, not all stoves are compatible with outside air feeds. The BKs and my last Hearthstone stove stove got 100% of combustion air from a 3" nipple on the stove so zero room air is consumed when you supply an air tight outside air connection to that nipple. Many non-cats including my NC30 have multiple, full throttle, uncontrolled, intake holes all over the stove that suck room air in despite supplying outside air per the directions. My NC30 has four separate air inlets and only one is hooked to the official Outside air connection!
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