New Outdoor Gasification Furnace By Portage and Main

[altheating]

I just found out that Portage and Main has developed a gasification unit that will be available soon. They are trying to get the demo unit to the Tupper Lake Woodsmen's Show next weekend. From what I have been told this should be a well built unit that incorporates the double welding of all seams and the 1/4" mild steel construction of their current models. They are using full refractory like the European indoor gasifiers. That should eliminate the burn through that is being experienced by some other brands. The distributor says they will do their best to get it to the show. If not it will be at Empire Farm Days. Have any of our Hearth.com friends in Canada seen one of these new units? If so, any comments would be appreciated.

 

[bulldawg72]

Why bother with a new, foriegn, unproven brand when Econoburn is built right here in the US and has a great track record? Plus, Econoburn is eligible for a $1,500 tax credit and has a $500 or $700 factory rebate...

 

[stee6043]

Why bother with a new, foriegn, unproven brand when Econoburn is built right here in the US and has a great track record? Plus, Econoburn is eligible for a $1,500 tax credit and has a $500 or $700 factory rebate...

I think altheating was referring to a unit specifically designed for outdoor use. And you may want to ease-up on the foreign brand bashing.....many people will argue that the Europeans are lightyears ahead of us in terms of wood heating technology.

 

[altheating]

Thanks Stee6043,
That is correct, the Portage and Main Gasifier is an outdoor unit. Should anyone want an indoor unit I also sell the Econoburn units. There are still those folks who would own nothing but a unit designed for outdoors. That is why we handle the P&M;'s, they are top of the line units and from what the folks at the factory are telling me, the gasser is built on the same principals, 1/4" steel double welded construction. Also, from what I am told the P&M;will be able to qualify for the federal tax credit as soon as it is officially tested by an independant lab.
Bulldawg72, you are correct when you say the Econoburn has a great track record, as a matter of fact they have an outstanding track record! As the second dealer in the USA and the first in New York State I have first hand knowledge of how fantastic the Econoburn product line is. And as good as Econoburn is, I find that the Portage and Main Furnaces are just as good, they simply have their place and it's outdoors and if you compare the construction to other OWB's they win hands down. In my opinion of course!

 

[Piker]

The biggest problem with the outdoor gasifiers is the enormous size of their fireboxes, and people's lack of self control when it comes to overfilling them in order to get extra long burn times . What people need to understand is that efficiency and burn time are diametrically opposed on most current versions of gassers. If you load the firebox with a half a truck load of wood, you get a greater portion of the heat load satisfied by the enormous amoung of smoldering and innefficient combustion therein, and the units spend alot of time in an idle state - wasting a fair amount of woodgas that could otherwise be burned. It's the same idea on the indoor units too, but because of the smaller fireboxes on the indoor units, the homeowner is restricted to how much wood they can pack in there, thus limiting the relative ouput of the upper chamber as compared to the output of the gasification chamber.

Small loads of fuel with small fires in the upper chamber of a gasser are critical to maintain efficiency when heat demand is significantly less than the rated output of the boiler. Again, it's the balance between burn time and efficiency.

cheers

 

[Gooserider]

The biggest problem with the outdoor gasifiers is the enormous size of their fireboxes, and people's lack of self control when it comes to overfilling them in order to get extra long burn times . What people need to understand is that efficiency and burn time are diametrically opposed on most current versions of gassers. If you load the firebox with a half a truck load of wood, you get a greater portion of the heat load satisfied by the enormous amoung of smoldering and innefficient combustion therein, and the units spend alot of time in an idle state - wasting a fair amount of woodgas that could otherwise be burned. It's the same idea on the indoor units too, but because of the smaller fireboxes on the indoor units, the homeowner is restricted to how much wood they can pack in there, thus limiting the relative ouput of the upper chamber as compared to the output of the gasification chamber.

Small loads of fuel with small fires in the upper chamber of a gasser are critical to maintain efficiency when heat demand is significantly less than the rated output of the boiler. Again, it's the balance between burn time and efficiency.

cheers

Well said, and I would just add that this is essentially why storage is such a key part of a gasser setup. By having a storage tank you are essentially creating a known minimum demand, that will keep the gasser in high heat mode for as long as possible in order to maximize the efficiency... Without the storage, the heat demand is almost always going to be less than the rated boiler output (except on those few "demand days", and maybe not even then) so you'd need to be building a lot of small fires to burn efficiently. With the extra "storage demand", if properly configured you can build a "rated output" size fire every time, and just heat the storage instead of the house, while burning at maximum efficiency to satisfy the "demand" of the storage tank.

In theory, if it had a big enough storage tank, an outdoor gasser would be able to be stuffed to the gills and burn efficiently for the entire load... Wait a second, I think they already make one like that, isn't it called a Garn?? :coolgrin:

Gooserider

 

[heaterman]

"Well said, and I would just add that this is essentially why storage is such a key part of a gasser setup."

I'll add to that statement Goose and say that ANY wood burner can and will benefit from storage, even if it's just a plain old OWB. Cycling the fire kills efficiency and increases emissions any way you slice it. It doesn't matter what brand you run.

 

[gorbull]

I didn't see anything about this gasifier on their web site. Somehow I suspect it's just going to be another "rejig" of the Wood Doctor Convertor design. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[altheating]

I know it's called the Optimizer. I'm still waiting on some of the specs on the unit. Since it is being manufactured by the same folks who are currently manufacturing the P&M;OWB's, I think you will find the new Optimizer to be built like a tank, using the double welded construction with all 1/4" steel construction. I know the unit uses lots of refractory material. As soon as I get the specs from them I will post them. Hopefully in a day or two.

 

[Justburnit]

Why in your mind is ¼" mild steel construction so important? That is considerably thinner and less tolerant material to the operating environment than the steel used in the imported boilers.

 

[Piker]

Why in your mind is ¼" mild steel construction so important? That is considerably thinner and less tolerant material to the operating environment than the steel used in the imported boilers.

Not all the imports use thicker than .250". Depending on how you define "considerable..." the one that is thicker runs about .025" thicker at 7mm (.275"). Almost all of the offshore indoor units are actually considerably less than .250" at least on the outer waterjacket... 4mm or .156" comes to mind on a popular brand. Low carbon steel or "mild steel" is the material of choice for wood boilers, however there are different grades of low carbon steel manufactured for different purposes. Application of the proper grade for firebox use is critical.

cheers

 

[Nofossil]

I'm happy to see choices and competition - it almost always improves the breed. We still need a good efficiency and emission test suite that buyers can use to make more informed decisions.

Specifically, it would be good to see SYSTEM efficiencies in a well-defined 'standard installation' with a heat load equal to the rated capacity as well as the same data with a heat load of half the rated capacity.

For OWBs, the standard installation might include an effective outdoor temp of 20 degrees and a heat load that's 75' away with buried lines between. The standard installation should include realistic flow rates and temperature differentials.

Probably makes sense to test without storage as the baseline, but allow the option of tests with storage if the manufacturer desires.