New property means new saw.

tlhfirelion Posted By tlhfirelion, Jul 7, 2018 at 5:11 PM

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  1. timmyd

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    Look at the Echo cs590. The stihl saw suggestions are good but the 261 may be to small and the 660 is overkill. The Echo is a magnesium cased 60cc saw that will handle a 24 inch bar. They sell for around $399.00
     
  2. Jazzberry

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    084s should come standard with a wheelbarrow. Super awesome saw for a mill but I don't even like to carry it to my pickup and back let alone go troopsing in the woods with it. I would take a look at a Dolmar 7900 if I was in the market for a big saw and you had a dealer around. Pretty impressed with the 7300 i got on a trade for my ms 360.
     
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  3. Jazzberry

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    Thats definitely not an upgrade for a 064 and running a 24" bar in oak???? I don't think so.
     
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  4. Prof

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    You may also want to consider how many of the trees will the 24+ inches. I have some beech trees that are real whoppers around my place, but most of my cutting is medium-sized trees. I have a 25 inch bar for my 362 in the event that I need to cut up a huge beech. If I had to do it every day, I'd certainly want a bigger saw, but since an 18 inch bar will get through 90+ percent of what I have around me, I tend to err on the side of smaller saws since I find them easier to handle for long stretches.
     
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  5. Ashful

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    We’re getting threads crossed, here. He is talking to the OP, looking to upgrade from his $200 big box store saw. Then I make an off hand comment about replacing an 064 with a 660, and get you all excited...
     
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  6. Jazzberry

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    Re read it without the exited part. It applies to your post and the op. But ya a little thread jacking. The cutting 24" oak part was for the op and the 064 was in case he was referring to your post. Sorta confusing but no excitement on my end.
     
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  7. Cast Iron

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    MS261
     
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  8. Jazzberry

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    He already has a small saw. He needs something for up to 24" oak. Sorry but a 261 aint in that league.
     
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  9. Cast Iron

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    This MS 261 is a Major league pro saw for 99% of most non career work. The right mix of speed, weight, power for what most of us do. Easy 8 cords of hardwood firewood harvested from the woodlot each year, intensive trails maintenance for regional environmental groups, and of course the constant softwood blowdowns to clear and buck for shoulder firewood. The MS261 with 16" and 20" bars has done it all.
    The 16" bar with the skills of knowing how to plunge/bore cut, target falls, and wedge use WILL and HAS safely dropped trees to 36" trunk ( DBH for you). And, just as fast and accurately as a 440 with a 28" bar.
    Sure it's mach to want the big boy saws such as the MS660 with a 36" bar for the part time suburban cuts. Fine. Most of the tree surgeons, loggers, and contractors prefer the smaller tools ( such as the 261) for worker safety, efficiency, and fatigue here. My older saws when I was that strapping Ranger ( sic ) were the Stihl 440, 028, etc with those silly long bars in the +28" range. Silly. I want a tool that I can use all day safely without that "movement" partner holding my hand.
    The smaller pro saws of Hisky and Stihl can also be carried for trail work in a backpack with wedges, hammer, aid kit, 2in1 with stump vise.
    That's the experience in these Northeastern mountain valleys with diverse trees. Bore cuts are fun if you know how.::P
     
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  10. Ashful

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    All true, minus your usual unnecessary insults. But if you’re not carrying the saw long distances, there’s no reason for all that extra work. I put my saws in the bucket of my front-end loader, drive into the woods, make a few cuts, and then drag the logs out in 15 foot lengths (or 7.5 feet, if they’re over 36” diameter). The extra two or four pounds of a larger saw really aren’t enough to deter me from the frustration of working with an under-powered saw, or the extra time and thought required to take a 36” tree with a 16” bar.

    Since I cut with an older guy, I leave most of the easier to handle stuff for him, and much of what I’m cutting for myself is big enough that I have to work it from both sides with the 28 inch bar (call that “part time suburban”, if you like). When I switch from the 064 with 28 inch bar to the 036 with 20 inch bar, I have to slow up considerably, and I don’t see any benefit in that.

    If I were trekking all over God’s creation with my saw, as you claim to do, then I’d be probably right there with your ideas of carrying the smallest saw that’d do the job. But I like using the smallest tool that will do the job quickly, not just the smallest tool that can get it done.

    You like to talk like you’re a pro logger, and the rest of us are just hacks, but how many cords of wood are you felling and putting up every year? It’s really amazing (and charitable of you), that you even want to waste your time talking to the rest of us, when your experience is so vastly superior to every other person on this forum.
     
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  11. Cast Iron

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    All correct Ash except for the "pro"assumptions. The woods roads in our woodlots get overgrown and steep so that we can't use a tractor.
    Besides, tractors with logging rigs easily run $50 k and up....way up. Rather travel or play with the boat on Champlain.
    For us part timers (said above), harvesting 8+ cords each year ( as posted above ), along with trail work, blowdowns , and environmental sanctuary
    clearing, the smallest, most powerful saw that does the job is used. For longer hikes in, the top handles tree saw makes an hour's hike in less fatiguing.
    BTW: getting into trunks of blowdowns through the crown and branches is the dangerous part; don't want anyone near.
    Long ago I took the pro logger training as the only landowner civilian in the class, then later went through the 4 levels of the GOL at the university for competition ( look up GOL well worth the time).
    Both programs stress efficiency for the pros , maintenance, safety, and planning each fall. Doing a first time plunge or bore cut was frankly wet pants
    fightening. The instructor was right on my butt ready to tap me on the shoulder with his yardstick if the technique was wrong or dangerous.
    No bragging, just facts about how this person uses saws and harvests.
    No insults meant.....both directions. Thx. Take care.
     
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  12. Cast Iron

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    For the main saw in the quiver, it is now the MS261. The top handle always is the partner.
    We all went through a micro brew case discussing the 261 vs the 346Xp. It is a Ford vs Chevy thing; tho most have Subarus .
    Why the 261?
    Low emissions
    High Power to weight
    Fixed nuts (when tensioning, sharpening, transfering the bar up side ). Ever dropped bar nuts in the woods ;em?
    Low vibration.
    Side screw tensioning.
    Easy air filter.
    Electronic carb control.
    Takes up to 20" bar with little loss of power/speed.
    Fuel efficiency.
    Used as THE one saw for limbing, bucking, felling by many pros.
    Less fatigue with a reliable 50cc saw than heavier saws..
    Color.
     
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  13. Jazzberry

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    Out here in the west the main saw pros carry is the 460. Most of the pros have a ported 460 for their personal saw also. The 26 series is a fantastic saw but it is not the saw for bigger wood. A 26 with a 20" bar is barely adequate in softwood with a skip tooth. Great saw for most non pro firewood cutters but definitely not the saw of choice when you get into bigger wood. Also not a saw I would pick if I already had a small saw such as the op stated. For a single saw for most non pros getting firewood I also recommend it. But I would tell them go with an 18" bar.
     
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  14. Cast Iron

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    Jazz is right for WESTERN timber professionals with trunks well over 3' DBH.
    However for us Northeastern part timers only doing clearing, trail work, and mostly firewood from our woodlots, a 50cc pro saw is adequate for 90% of the cutting. Less fatigue, faster sharpening with shorter bars under 20", the right training to do bigger trees with shorter bars along with using wedges,
    makes for enjoyable time in the woods. Besides, as you get older, the body does not crave heavy tools. We need more time to enjoy buddies, drinking, and our partners.
    BTW Jazz, where'd you get the tat ?
     
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  15. DodgyNomad

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    Can't argue with this at all. I was all about big saws and heavy lifting until a year ago. Then a bad knee, and torn shoulder labrum make me appreciate my lighter saws now.

    I'm in the process of taking my lighter saws and going well beyond wood's porting and making them big bore screamers.

    I already use premium ethanol free fuel, so adding a little race fuel to my mix is no big deal. I want the power, but don't want the extra weight of a 660 with me on larger logs anymore. The weight of a 361/362 is about as heavy as I want in my hands anymore if I'm working for hours on end. And if my saws need more attention and rebuilding more often, that seems a lot cheaper than surgery and visits to the chiropractor.
     
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  16. Alpine1

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    I agree with Cast Iron. My oleomac gs650 is overkill for my wood cutting. When time will come for me to buy a new chainsaw, I’ll go for a 50 cc with 18” bar. A good rule of thumb for choosing a chainsaw: if it seems adequate, it’s probably too big.
     
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  17. Cast Iron

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    Once I too had the idea that a big saw ( 440, 660) with a 28" bar or longer was needed to cut a 36" trunk. Stupid then and now. There was big dead standing oak on the lot at least 3' dia. Had to call my friendly logger with his 36" 880 since I assumed that my 20" 028 coudn't do it.
    Those training programs, one for pros then GOL for civilian part timers, cured me. Learning the techniques (plural ) for plunge and bore cuts with a short bar, use of wedges to safely direct falls, and fully planning the cuts and escape paths was all it took. Full PPE of course, always.
    Those bore cuts demand attention to directing the saw, and having a seriously sharp and tensioned chain. Too easy to have the beast come out at you.......fast if not done right. Kind of like a firearm or ordinance ( maybe fireworks if no 'ordinance' available ). Humbling.
    Try it ; get someone with plunging experience to show you.
    And, climbing and sport injuries, older bodies demand the correct but efficient tools. You'll find out.
    A MS261 0r a 346XP will do most work for us part time cutters. Both high power to weight tools.
     
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  18. Medic21

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    I have a 261, 362, and 461, and a Dolmar PS510 that is ported along with some cheap and lightweight box store saws. A CS310 echo and a 171 stihl for liming and cleanup and a Husky top handle.

    Of all those I will grab the 362, hands down, every time I go to the woods. I carry it in the log truck also for when I have to cut when loading. If I need to fell more than one larger tree like I will do this Saturday I will take the 461 and 362. I run a 25” bar on the 461 and 20” on the 362. I do have a 32” bar with skip tooth chain for a pinch and In all honesty if you want to run a bar larger than a 24” a 660 is what you need for the power to run a 32” bar efficiently. I plan on a 660 this year before winter. Nice thing is the 362, 461, and 660 are all the same bar mount so they are interchangeable. A 390xp from husqvarna will run a 36” ok and it’s cheaper than a 461 but a lot more powerful. There are some that will say their 271 farm boss will run a 20 and 25 bar a fine all day long. It will, with more fuel and more sweat. There is a reason manufacturers recommend bar sizes. 60cc in a pro saw or 70cc in a farm and ranch saw are close to equal on power. The max is 24/25 inches for bars.

    When I bought the 362 I demo’d It and a Husky 562xp. The 562 probably out performed the stihl but, I felt the engine was more durable with double piston rings on the stihl vs the husky. I bought that as my everyday pro saw that I will have till I quit burning wood. The differences on power to weight of the 261 and 362 along with the price difference being only a 100bucks makes the 261 a non issue to me. That and a .325 vs 3/8 chain makes it something To cut brush with. I buy chain bulk and make my chains so I stay with 3/8 for everything I use everyday. The 261 was way under powered for a 3/8 chain when I tried it.

    What I suggest is talking to shops and regional reps and demo something. Nothing will tell you how much you like it like running it for a day. If you buy new plan on close to a thousand bucks for a 362 or 562 Husky with extra chains.
     
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  19. DodgyNomad

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    How I sum up the 361/362 too. I've had 2-362's. One was a CM. It's the saw I end up using most of the time. Right balance and power.
     
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  20. Medic21

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    Put a 20” bar on it and it’s a workhorse put an 18” bar and speed sprocket it down right fun.
     
  21. Medic21

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    I work for a logging company on my days I’m off the ambulance. Not ONE cutter ever goes to the woods with less than an 80cc saw and the majority use a MS 660 which is 91cc with a 36” bar. The MS 880 is on every site for trees over 36” and gets used frequently. The smallest saw I have ever seen on site is a MS461. Those guys usually only plunge cut leaners, it takes too long to set that up.

    I would never recommend a saw less than 60cc pro model or 70cc non pro. I work on a lot of them in my shop at home and the majority of engine problems are on 50cc and smaller. People lean them out to get the bigger saw performance and that burns them up.
     
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  22. Cast Iron

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    Very big qualitative diff between those cutting part time even if it is up to 10 real cords/year, trail work for environmental groups and on our woodlots, and the PITA blowdowns to clear. There is no macho gestalt with saws or ordinance or firearms. That's how we see chainsaws.
    There are full time pro users like Mr. Medic then those of us who cut and harvest for ourselves and some volunteer felling for vet groups and trails.
    We are older, have had our share of sports and other injuries, and NEED tools ( NEED) that reflect our physical and skill abilities. We ain't pros even IF we have had similar training to pros. And few of the weekend cutters (sic) need anything like professional saws like Stihl 880, 660, 0r 440. The 362's are still too much for most of us (me at least) for cutting in a short day of recreation. Not work.
    I use plunge/bore cuts with my 50cc tool cause my saws have short bars, I take care with felling, and have other recreations to waste my body year-round.
    No comparison.
     
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  23. Medic21

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    I’m not a cutter. I’ve spent time learning from them and may someday, I end up bucking a lot to load it on the semi. I was replying to your statement that a MS 261 was the choice of saw for the pros. I have never seen anything less than a 461 used by the pros.

    For what the OP was asking the 261 is like buying the cub cadet at tsc to mow your yard and the 362 is an exmark. The two more pounds are nothing and the production of a 3/8 pitch chain over a .325 is night and day. You will work harder to make a saw do something a bigger saw is designed to do. I used to cut firewood with a 029 then 290 then bought the 261. It’s a great saw but the 362 wears me out less because the saw does more work in less time.

    It’s the same principle with our fire rescue saw. A 461 with a 14” bar and .404 pitch chain. I can take a ms170 on the roof and cut a hole. I’ll take the 461r and cut a hole in less than half the time. But, back when we used small saws, 20+ years ago, we learned to use an axe for ventilation because it was quick and efficient. It’s all about how hard you want to work and how long you want it to take to get a job done.

    I don’t cut tops with the 461. That is a heavy saw to run all day cutting 18” and smaller wood. The 362 with a more aggressive chain weighing about 2 pounds more will do the job quite a bit faster. That is why I use it all the time.
     
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  24. Renovationman

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    A lot of great posts. I can’t believe no one asked how much land and how many trees. Is it 5 acres or 500 and is it 100 trees or a 1000? Will this be a 3 week cleanup and your done other than yearly cleanup. Buy the biggest saw you need and what you can afford based on all you have read here. Unlike you I am brand specific with Stihl. I have a 026 and it does what I need it to do.
     
  25. Medic21

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    I used to be brand specific. I am pro line specific now. These new “homeowner” and “farm and ranch” saws are junk compared to pro saws. Take apart an work on an older 029 then compare it to the 291 and you will see what I mean. The 291 belongs in the trash can to keep the wind from blowing it over.
     
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