New stove + Carbon Monoxide Alarm+ Air Control

[BotniBieve]

Hi there,
I'm new to wood burning and have a few questions. We had our new Englander Madison installed professionally less than a week ago. We've had our break in fires and several successively larger fires as well, but all with the air control open because that is what seemed to be most effective for us in the learning process. Last night we experimented with closing the air control, which the manual states will help have a longer burning, more warming fire. About four hours after doing this, with no opening of the stoves door, our carbon monoxide alarm went off. We hurriedly got the kids out and ventilated the house for several hours before returning, and had no more issues. After doing research I now know I should have gotten everyone out and then had the fire department come check things out for us. Our CO alarm does not give a read out of ppm, but we'll be purchasing one that does this afternoon.
I would love to hear any theories you experts may have as to where the CO came from. Lowering the air control? Is it possibly a bad installation and we should call the installers back?
If it is from lowering the air control, can someone please give me directions on how to use this safely and effectively?
Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this and to help!

 

[jetsam]

Can you describe how the stove is vented? Starting at the stove's flue collar, how does the exhaust get outside the house? Pictures of the flue inside and outside would help.

Here's some questions for common scenarios:

Does the stove have an outside air kit installed, and is it in the basement?

Is it a new house with very tight construction?

Do you get smoke back in the room when you open the door slowly?

Is your house in a valley or other area subject to thermal inversions?

Is the top of the flue below the ridgeline of the house?

 

[BotniBieve]

Can you describe how the stove is vented? Starting at the stove's flue collar, how does the exhaust get outside the house? Pictures of the flue inside and outside would help.

Here's some questions for common scenarios:

Does the stove have an outside air kit installed, and is it in the basement?

Is it a new house with very tight construction?

Do you get smoke back in the room when you open the door slowly?

Is your house in a valley or other area subject to thermal inversions?

Is the top of the flue below the ridgeline of the house?

Thank you for your response Jetsam!
I'm still learning the nomenclature, but I think these photos give you the information you're asking about.
We do not have an OAK, and the stove is not in a basement.
The house is about 13 years old, we do need to open a window in order to get a decent draft going. I haven't noticed smoke coming back into the room when the door is opened slowly.
Home is not in a valley or other thermal inversion area.
The top of the flue is above the ridgeline, but not by a lot. It was already installed when we purchased the home. The professional that came to install the stove said the chimney was well placed and looked good.

I appreciate your feedback!

 

[moresnow]

How is your fuel supply? How long has it been split and stacked waiting to be used in the new stove? Might want to verify that your wood is dry/seasoned (search option will provide direction if needed). Turning down the air on a wet load might be a issue.

 

[BotniBieve]

How is your fuel supply? How long has it been split and stacked waiting to be used in the new stove? Might want to verify that your wood is dry/seasoned (search option will provide direction if needed). Turning down the air on a wet load might be a issue.

The wood has been split and stacked for about three years. I haven't tested moisture, but can do that!

 

[Pertzbro]

What is total length of pipe? Looks like at most 15ft. how does it draft? Any smoke smell?

 

[jetsam]

Since the house is so tight he has to open a window to start a fire, and since it only happened on low burn, I am going to guess momentary draft reversal, and suggest both an OAK and adding a few feet of stack to see if it helps.

@bholler ought to be along with a better informed opinion before too long (he does this stuff for a living).

 

[bholler]

If opening a window effects the fire in any way you have negative pressure in the house you need outside air brought to the stove. And probably should take other measures to equalize the pressure as well. But i am preffty sure a properly installed oak should address the problem.

 

[Cathyvotaw]

Since the house is so tight he has to open a window to start a fire, and since it only happened on low burn, I am going to guess momentary draft reversal, and suggest both an OAK and adding a few feet of stack to see if it helps.

@bholler ought to be along with a better informed opinion before too long (he does this stuff for a living).

What is OAK? We have been having issues with Co detectors going off.

 

[Cathyvotaw]

What is OAK?

 

[bholler]

What is OAK? We have been having issues with Co detectors going off.

Outside air kit. It supplies the stove with fresh combustion air from outside.

 

[MagdalenaP]

Any chance you had a bathroom vent, dryer, furnace or anything else come on while the fire was dying down?

 

[PaulOinMA]

Where is the CO detector in relation to the stove? I think the instructions for my insert state to have a CO detector in the same room as the insert (also needed by city code), but do not plug it into an outlet by the insert. I think the wording was even something like plug it into an outlet that is farthest from the insert in the room.

 

[Cathyvotaw]

Any chance you had a bathroom vent, dryer, furnace or anything else come on while the fire was dying down?

Yes very possible. It has gone off on 4 separate occasions.

 

[Cathyvotaw]

We are at our wits end. Co2 detectors have gone off this winter 4 different times. 1st time, we aired house and called Fire Dept. They said to call gas company. Their detector went off as soon as they walked through the door. Gas company shut off LP tank and said call HVAC. We did,. HVAC said he thought it was due to our gas hot water heater. We had it changed over to electric. Problem solved, then a month later we were out of town. My neice was checking on dogs and it was going off. My son came over aired house and replaced batteries. Checked later and all was fine. Month later, alarm goes off I air out house put alarms outside. Husband gets a new alarm. Call fire department, but they did not detector. House was aired out before I called. I had HVAC come out. He said he could not see anything wrong with furnace, but due to age it may need replacement. We quit burning and had a chimney sweep come out. He cleaned the flue and said I should burn it hotter, keep door temp at 500 and let it burn out at night. I tried one more time after to shut it down and try to keep fire overnight. Next morning alarm went off. Aired house which took a few hours. My husband swears it is caused by dampering down the stove. We do have problems with wind and puffs, back draft. I hate to rebuild fire every morning. At a loss.

 

[jetsam]

What may be happening is that your house is fairly tight (not a lot of air gets in). Appliances like your HVAC, wood stove, bath fans, range hood, etc pull air out of the house. Now the house is negatively pressurized, and all that air has to come back in. This normally happens through gaps in construction, leaks in windows and doors- anywhere air can infiltrate. If the house is very tight, it is possible that this replacement air could be sucked the wrong way through the stove's flue. The lower the stove is burning, the weaker its draft, and the easier it is to reverse.

So late at night, the stove is burning low and the draft is weak. The (propane?) HVAC kicks on, and its venting further depressurizes the house. Because the stove's draft is weak, you could get some reversal through that flue, and the CO alarms go off.

It's more likely in warm weather than cold, more likely with a short flue than a tall one, and more likely with a cool stove than a hot stove. The more things that are sucking air out of the house, the more likely it is. Gas dryer + bath fan + range hood + gas hvac + gas water heater + wood stove? That's a LOT of air being moved out of the house.

An outside air kit may resolve or at least help the problem. What vents out of your house at night, aside from the wood stove?

 

[Cathyvotaw]

The furnace lp, kicks on more at night. I am not sure but it may have happened as the outside temp. was a little warmer. Our woodstove is freestanding and in the finished basement. It is a dutchwest.

 

[TradEddie]

Please tell us a little more about your woodstove, what type is it, where is it located? Also, is your LP furnace located near the stove (in same basement?), are there any cold air returns to LP furnace in the basement? What stage of the stove burn cycle are you getting the carbon monoxide alarms? Please describe how far down you damper the stove at night. Have there been any alarms when the woodstove has been completely cold?

TE

 

[Cathyvotaw]

Our stove is free standing dutchwest. The lp furnace is also in the basement. The basement is finished so they are in separate rooms. There is a vent in a wall between the rooms. The stairwell is open and the coldair return is in the hallway upstairs near the steps. I damper it almost closed so that there are some coals to get it going in the morning. Last winter this didn't happen. The alarms have gone off the day after a fire. I was getting a lot of wood fumes in the house too. Nasty wet wood smell. The chimney sweep said to keep stove up to 500 degrees and let it burn out, not to damper it. Our stove pipe goes up4-5 ft. Left makes a 90 out the wall and another 90 up the insulated pipe .