Newbie with small fireplace Looking for a Stove Solution

[dback]

Having moved into our first house with a fireplace, we're looking for a stove solution for a fireplace 27" wide x 24 1/2" tall and 20" deep with a slate hearth of 15" x 60".

After multiple internet searches and three dealer visits we thought we had the solution, the Hearthstone Homestead. However when we discovered that with 4" legs the 6.6 R-value requirement our current hearth would not suffice and it would be a costly if not impossible task to accomplish.

So now I'm considering looking into the Hearthstone Heritage as it only requires much less of an r-value, though I can't seem to confirm this on Hearthstone's site, but some say all that is needed is an ember pad.

My concern is that this stove may be slightly too tall by as little as an inch. Would it be unheard of to remove my existing hearth and reinstall a hearth that is slightly recessed into the floor?

 

[DenverDan]

Have you looked at the Jotul F100? I'm guessing that you'd like to install the stove inside the fireplace. We looked long and hard for a stove to fit in our small (26"w x 29"h), tapered fireplace and found that the F100 was the only one that fit. The height of the F100 is 22.5 in. but the flue collar (for top venting) adds another 2 in. (approx.) so it may be a tight fit for you. The f100 vents both top and rear. Since the F100 has a bottom heat shield it just requires a non combustible hearth (no 'r' value requirement). Look at the Jotul site for stove dimensions and clearances to the mantle and trim. I have a long response in a previous posting that describes our install: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...or-my-small-fireplace-but-large-house.106435/ Also search 'F100' on this site for other discussions about the stove. (Do keep in mind that the F100 only has a 1.1 cu ft fire box. It's enough for us but may not meet your needs) Good luck

 

[begreen]

dback, that is a small fireplace opening. One option would be to tap into the liner above the damper with a new thimble. That would allow a top vented stove to be installed. Of course nearby combustibles like a mantel would need to be taken into account. Can you post a picture or two of the current fireplace?

 

[mellow]

My concern is that this stove may be slightly too tall by as little as an inch. Would it be unheard of to remove my existing hearth and reinstall a hearth that is slightly recessed into the floor?

Depending how the hearth is supported (concrete or framed) you could lower it and extend it out, might as well build it to the specs for whatever stove you decide to install.

 

[dback]

Depending how the hearth is supported (concrete or framed) you could lower it and extend it out, might as well build it to the specs for whatever stove you decide to install.

I think I've found my solution. An Enviro insert, the Kodiac 1700. The reviews I've read are great, burns a 20 inch log and puts out 74,000 btu's and looks like it will fit into my small sized fireplace. Anky feedback would be greatly appreciated!

 

[begreen]

That is a top rated insert. Never heard a bad word about it. Good choice. Double check measurements at the front and rear of the fireplace.

 

[dback]

That is a top rated insert. Never heard a bad word about it. Good choice. Double check measurements at the front and rear of the fireplace.

I appreciate your feedback. I came into the wood burning arena totally blind, the only thing I knew was I had a fireplace 27" wide 24 1/2" tall and 20" deep. Other than that I knew nothing and the support and feedback on this site have been invaluable! I also did not realize how much technology there was regarding wood stoves.
If I do go with the Enviro 1700 I am presuming that it only needs ember protection 16" from the front of the door? I do know that my existing hearth is only 15" and I will need to have that extended or use a hearth pad, which, when I saw it at the local vendor looked as though it was nothing more than a metal tray. Are there any good sources where to purchase these?

 

[mellow]

I made my own hearth pad with concrete board and tile. Check out the required R value for your pad and build to those specs, not hard to do.

 

[begreen]

Enviro wants the insert to be on an elevated hearth, 8" above floor level, with hearth protection insulation requirements undefined. If someone spots the actual insulation requirement in Enviro's docs please let us know. Otherwise i am going to assume it's ember protection only.

Get a hearth extension pad if the height is not quite there.
http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/stoves-add-on-furnaces/hearth-pads/c-6857.htm

 

[dback]

Enviro wants the insert to be on an elevated hearth, 8" above floor level, with hearth protection insulation requirements undefined. If someone spots the actual insulation requirement in Enviro's docs please let us know. Otherwise i am going to assume it's ember protection only.

Get a hearth extension pad if the height is not quite there.
http://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/stoves-add-on-furnaces/hearth-pads/c-6857.htm

Once again I'm so appreciative of so much feedback. Would it be possible to guide me to where Enviro recommends an 8" height above the floor?

I've encountered yet another issue. I thought I was home free because the Enviro brochure states that the Kodiak requires a 27" x 19" opening. I downloaded all the files only to find that the Owner's manual states the Kodiak has a 17 3/4" opening. Then I saw the fine print on the brochure stating that actual sizes may vary. My opening is on the floor and exactly 27 wide by 24 1/2 tall.

The local dealer told me they can measure for me, but it's gonna take between a week to 3 weeks. I called Enviro and they quickly gave me another number to call which wound up to be another dealer who said some installers will "shave" the stone if necessary.

Another issue is that although the opening is 27w x 24 1/2 tall, in the fireplace there is a metal insert which is about an inch wider on either side but the sides taper inward such that the rear width is slightly over 22". The total depth is just over 20" so it's really a close call if the Enviro would fit.

And...the owner's manual on page 18 shows a drawing of the stove and the rear is shown being 24 1/4" wide but on page 14 of the Owner's Manual it states the following for fireplace size...minimum width in front is 27, minimum width in the rear is 22 3/8" at a depth of 18".

The chart also has two columns one for Masonry another for Zero Clearance. Can someone explain this? I am most appreciative of everyone's advice. I must comment that I'm not impressed with Enviro's customer service and the asence of a customer service phone line. We looked it up in the Canadian Yellow pages. Your feedback is greatly appreciated, getting cold in snowy Delaware, Dave

 

[begreen]

Fireplace hearth requirements diagrams start on page 35 of the manual I think.

 

[dback]

Fireplace hearth requirements diagrams start on page 35 of the manual I think.

You are right on the money on the hearth requirements. I don't see the hearth as a big obstacle as one inch is not too much, I just have to loose a tad of my hardwood floor. So now the question is will this stove fit as outlined in my previous post?

 

[begreen]

I think I would just go with a type 2 hearth extension and not worry about it.

 

[dback]

I think I would just go with a type 2 hearth extension and not worry about it.

If that will suffice I'm all for it. Would you be able to direct me as to where I could find these?

As for the stove fit I have a somewhat off the wall suggestion. Would it be possible for the manufacturers to have cardboard templates one could assemble to mock up and verify the stove fit? I do this all the time when I'm fabbing a body panel for a vintage car.

 

[mellow]

(broken link removed to http://www.bylers.com/stoveshoppe/products/heating_wood/wood_fireplace_inserts.html) in Dover is listed as an Enviro dealer, was that one of the guys you called? I have found they do good service and have good support after the fact, it might be worth the wait.

No stove companies sell cardboard mock ups.

You can find hearth extensions here: http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-Stove-and-Accessories/Hearth-Extensions

 

[begreen]

If that will suffice I'm all for it. Would you be able to direct me as to where I could find these?

http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-Stove-and-Accessories/Hearth-Extensions

 

[dback]

(broken link removed to http://www.bylers.com/stoveshoppe/products/heating_wood/wood_fireplace_inserts.html) in Dover is listed as an Enviro dealer, was that one of the guys you called? I have found they do good service and have good support after the fact, it might be worth the wait.

No stove companies sell cardboard mock ups.

You can find hearth extensions here: http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-Stove-and-Accessories/Hearth-Extensions

Thank you for the recomendation. Bylers was mentioned to me by one of the Maryland Enviro dealers. I guess I'm feeling the frustration of the timing of all of this, much like when I went to the hardware stores looking for a sump pump in the middle of a hurricane. Though I did luck out on that one when my wife suggested a boat bilge pump.

It's through desperation I'm suggesting cardboard mock ups, but all I'm trying to accoplish is to determine whether this stove will fit. It's gonna be close I know that for sure. I'm also learning some installers are more innovative than others, so if it doesn't fit it's gonna be in the area of a 1/4 to 1/2 an inch.

If it turns out that there's no way any suggestions for an insert to heat 1,400 sq ft from a 27w x 24t fireplace?

 

[mellow]

I was going to recommend the Jotul c 450 which fits in just about any fireplace but it requires 27.5 width. I did a search and couldn't find anything that will fit that width. Installing a free standing top vent stove might be your best option. Installing a crock/thimble into the fireplace up above will give you a mirade of options but more than likely you will have to do hearth work.

Sad to say this doesn't look like quick fix project.

Btw, how is your wood supply?

 

[dback]

Pacific Energy anyone? In my relentless wood insert search and spiked learning curve for which I'll thank this forum and everyone's tolerance for my lack of stove experience it's been challenging to find a stove/insert that I know will fit. Add to this the mid winter rush enhanced by the current sub-zero temps here in the northeast, I'm looking at a 1-3 week wait to have someone from a local dealer to come out, inspect my fireplace and tell me my options.
So what's a home owner to do but use the internet to learn, search, prepare and compare.
I am really hoping I have enough room for the Enviro 1700 to fit. I like the 20" log size and its efficiency. If it won't fit, there's an outside chance that a Regency i2400 may, followed closely by the Osburn 1600.
Well Kudos to Pacific Energy and their web site! I found their site the best yet to offer specs that illustrate the needed fireplace size and floor protection. And the best news of all, that the Pacific Energy Super will definitely fit my fireplace. The log size of 18" is less than the Enviro's 20" and that is a concession, but I know for a fact it will fit. Seems like the PE Super Insert is getting good reviews. Now I need to find a dealer near Delaware. Any feedback on the PE units?

 

[begreen]

Thank you for the recomendation. Bylers was mentioned to me by one of the Maryland Enviro dealers. I guess I'm feeling the frustration of the timing of all of this, much like when I went to the hardware stores looking for a sump pump in the middle of a hurricane. Though I did luck out on that one when my wife suggested a boat bilge pump.

It's through desperation I'm suggesting cardboard mock ups, but all I'm trying to accoplish is to determine whether this stove will fit. It's gonna be close I know that for sure. I'm also learning some installers are more innovative than others, so if it doesn't fit it's gonna be in the area of a 1/4 to 1/2 an inch.

If it turns out that there's no way any suggestions for an insert to heat 1,400 sq ft from a 27w x 24t fireplace?

Cardboard mockups are good. If the install is within 1/2" the surround can have a black 1/2" filler piece attached to the perimeter of the surround. It will look fine and intentional.

PE inserts are excellent. They heat well even with the blower off. "Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle' here has one and is staying toasty with it during this cold snap.

 

[dback]

Finally a solution...The Pacific Energy Super Insert will fit. Several others may fit, but thanks to the information provided on the Pacific Energy web site this wood insert is a go. I stopped by my local dealer and discussed the is it possible inserts with the yeah, it will fit and the only solution on paper is the PE super insert.
Reviews of the PE Super Insert are positive and our local vendor pointed out some of the benefits of the PE as well. Additionally I have to also comment that PE's web site is easy to navigate, informative and provides contact info. The hardest part to navigate on their site is the dealer locater.
For all of you who have chimed in your help has been invaluable. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. Looks like warmer days are ahead

 

[snowdawg54]

all this info that's been posted is helpful for another new shopper for a fireplace insert. I to am looking at the PE Super insert. The dealer subcontrats so i'm waiting to get an estimate done for installation. I currently have a zero clearance fireplace. Should be sure to ask about insulating?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

You will need a liner for sure and the chimney must be cleaned before installing. I would hold off on insulating in a ZC can.

 

[dback]

You will need a liner for sure and the chimney must be cleaned before installing. I would hold off on insulating in a ZC can.

With a confirmed fit and finally installed the Pacific Energy Super Insert is working nicely. I wrote a detailed suggestion list on a previous post pertaining to its installation and if installing a PE Super into a small fireplace opening with a house that's really air tight, the PE tech reps recommended removing the Outside Air (O/A) cover. The cover can be removed after installation with a little wiggling and jiggling.
I'll also add, if you don't have confirmed 1+ year seasoned wood, start your burns using some store bought kiln dried wood. It will take several burn cycles to dry the fire bricks before stove really cranks and once it does I'm confident you'll be quite satisfied.
PE's customer service has been fantastic and receptive of my questions. The installation went well but if moving the fan switch from the right side to the left side it MUST be moved BEFORE the stove is installed. The slip in panels covering the fans, which are periodically removed for cleaning though being just a slip fit were not easy to install and ultimately I may add a handle as there is nothing to grip them. Please note I have a Design-E insert and the panel installation is sligtly different than the Design-D version.
Again, I suggest reading my other posts relating to my recent stove installation experience. Between this forum, PE's technical service and my wood burning neighbor, we are thoroughly pleased with our Pacific Energy Super Insert. Here's a photo of the stove in action this morning. The air control is set centered between Hi and Lo. It's 39F outside and 67F in the house and the oil furnace is turned off.