NH Old Home Heating Advice (was: Southern NH Hearthstone dealer?)

[Coalescent]

Hello,

I'm a new poster on the forum but have already benefited greatly from many hours spent researching wood stoves here. Thank you all for the wealth of information on this forum.

My wife and I are new to New England and to wood stoves in general, though I tended one long ago during my teen years when I lived up in the mountains. We decided on buying a Hearthstone soapstone wood stove to heat our home, but there seem to be quite a number of dealerships to choose from.

So far I've looked at The Stove Shoppe in Manchester, Abundant Life in Chichester, and Hearth Works Fireplace Center in Hooksett. Can anyone here offer particularly positive (or not so positive) experiences with any of these dealers?

Thank you all for your time.

 

[webby3650]

Have you looked at Woodstock stoves at all? Just curious? They also make soapstone stoves in your neck of the woods.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I bought and had my insert installed by the Stove Shoppe in Windham- good service, no complaints

 

[Coalescent]

Have you looked at Woodstock stoves at all? Just curious? They also make soapstone stoves in your neck of the woods.

Hello webby. Yes, I did consider Woodstock stoves, but we decided against them after reading about catalytic and non-catalytic wood stoves. I've also met some folks who owned catalytic stoves and weren't happy with them. I'm looking at the larger Hearthstone models--considering the Equinox, which has a BTU output higher than any of the Woodstock models I saw.

 

[Coalescent]

I bought and had my insert installed by the Stove Shoppe in Windham- good service, no complaints

Thank you! It looks like that's the same company that owns the location in Manchester, so that's a point in their favor.

 

[Grisu]

Hello webby. Yes, I did consider Woodstock stoves, but we decided against them after reading about catalytic and non-catalytic wood stoves. I've also met some folks who owned catalytic stoves and weren't happy with them.

What exactly did you read about catalytic stoves? Many members here have a Woodstock stove and enjoy their longer burn times, more even heat output, higher efficiency, and their great customer service. In fact, quite a few members switched from a secondary burn stove (like the Hearthstone models) to a catalytic stove due to those advantages. If there would be a good catalytic insert (other than the ugly BlazeKing Princess insert, sorry BKVP), I may seriously consider upgrading to one.

I'm looking at the larger Hearthstone models--considering the Equinox, which has a BTU output higher than any of the Woodstock models I saw.

The Equinox is a really large heater. How large of a space do you want to heat? Do you already have 5 to 6 cords of firewood with a moisture content of less than 20% ready for the next winter? I estimate you will be needing at least as much per winter if you are considering the Equinox.

 

[webby3650]

There is one member here that has good success with the Equinox, other than that I've never really heard anything very positive. Very limited burn times considering the size and price of the monster.

 

[BrotherBart]

I must not be taking notes. Never remember hearing a discouraging word about the Equinox. If I had one I would play masonry heater and fire the crap out of it twice a day and be done.

 

[webby3650]

I must not be taking notes. Never remember hearing a discouraging word about the Equinox. If I had one I would play masonry heater and fire the crap out of it twice a day and be done.

Im not only referring to hearth.com experiences. Buy one then! Only running about $4,300 at the moment...

 

[BrotherBart]

Im not only referring to hearth.com experiences. Buy one then! Only running about $4,300 at the moment...

Lust for one. Ain't paying for one. Besides, my hearth would fall into the basement from the weight.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hello webby. Yes, I did consider Woodstock stoves, but we decided against them after reading about catalytic and non-catalytic wood stoves. I've also met some folks who owned catalytic stoves and weren't happy with them. I'm looking at the larger Hearthstone models--considering the Equinox, which has a BTU output higher than any of the Woodstock models I saw.

Not to sway you one way or the other . . . especially since you are already leaning one way, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I suspect many of these folks who have used cat stoves and didn't like them may have been trying to burn wood that wasn't fully seasoned or were trying to run the stove like a traditional old-time woodstove -- in both cases the results would not be good. Of course, there is always the possibility that they didn't like the idea of having to replace the cat down the road . . . or perhaps some other reason.

I only mention this since there are a lot of folks here with cat stoves -- Woodstocks and other brands -- who are very happy with them.

That said, there are also a lot of folks with secondary burning stoves who are just as happy.

I should also mention that I've read here a lot that Woodstock seems to not do the typical thing of over inflating their BTUs and square footage heating for the brochures as some companies may do . . .

 

[Coalescent]

Thank you all for the replies. I didn't mean to jump into a cat vs non-cat stove debate. Given what I know of the folks I know who weren't happy with their cat stoves, I suspect jake may have a good point.

It seemed to me that if I could get a stove that didn't require a replaceable part and get the BTUs and efficiency I needed, I'd be better off with the simpler secondary burn stove.

Is Hearthstone known for inflating their numbers? We are looking at the Equinox (or possibly the Mansfield if the Equinox is too much stove for our home) as a whole-home heating solution, with one additional small woodstove for the far corner of the attached ell.

I'll have to look more closely at the Progress Hybrid from Woodstock, too. It seems there are some folks who passionately feel Woodstock makes a superior wood stove.

Thanks again for all the information. The previous owner removed all the wood stoves from the home we purchased, so we're doing our best to buy the right stoves to heat our home next winter.

 

[Grisu]

If you can tell us more about your situation (size of the home, insulation level, existing chimneys, layout (rough sketch would be great), primary or supplemental heat, hearth size and possible clearances, maybe some pics etc.) we could give you some pointers about the best stove size. If the previous owners left the chimneys (or they are masonry) what inside diameter do they have? The Equinox needs an 8" flue while most others would be ok with a 6" flue.

How far from Lebanon are you? Some members picked up their stoves in the Woodstock factory and got a tour of their production facility. Maybe you are close enough to take a look at their stoves, how they are made and talk to the Woodstock people in person.

I know I asked that already but since its importance cannot be understated: How many cords of dry (or close to dry) wood have you already sitting in your yard? Without dry wood no modern stove will burn well, cat or non-cat.

 

[Coalescent]

If you can tell us more about your situation (size of the home, insulation level, existing chimneys, layout (rough sketch would be great), primary or supplemental heat, hearth size and possible clearances, maybe some pics etc.) we could give you some pointers about the best stove size. If the previous owners left the chimneys (or they are masonry) what inside diameter do they have? The Equinox needs an 8" flue while most others would be ok with a 6" flue.

How far from Lebanon are you? Some members picked up their stoves in the Woodstock factory and got a tour of their production facility. Maybe you are close enough to take a look at their stoves, how they are made and talk to the Woodstock people in person.

I know I asked that already but since its importance cannot be understated: How many cords of dry (or close to dry) wood have you already sitting in your yard? Without dry wood no modern stove will burn well, cat or non-cat.

Hello Grisu,

Thank you for taking the time to really try to help me out here. I appreciate it. I had to dig up some images of the floor plan from my file to answer your question. I feel like I should change the title of this thread somehow, since I've veered rather sharply away from my original question. Should I make a new thread?

I’ll divide my answers to your questions into sections below.

House Layout
-=-=-=-=-=-
We purchased a historic colonial farmhouse that we will be restoring over the coming years. We haven't wintered in it yet, so I can't speak to exactly how drafty it will be. I do know that they blew insulation in to all of the exterior walls and added storm windows over the originals. I'm certain it's not going to be winning any energy efficient awards anytime soon, but it does have some degree of insulation present.

I've attached a sketch of the first floor floorpan. The main body of the home (the 26x28, approximately 728 sqft part) is three stories tall--two main stories and a finished attic, all approximately 728 sqft.

The first floor consists of a living room in the southwest corner (13x14), a dining room to the north fully open to the living room (13x11), a kitchen to the east of the dining room separated by an uninsulated wall (13x14), and a short hallway to the south of the kitchen leading to the foyer (open to 2nd floor) with a stairwell and a bathroom. The small boxed area on the north side marked FFF/CRL contains two equally sized, insulated rooms that attach to the kitchen and have separate electric heat available.

The bedrooms are on the second floor along the west side and extend from the wall to the middle wall you see there in the sketch, equally dividing that space north/south. A bathroom and a small open area leading to the stairwell for the 3rd floor occupy the rest of the room.

The first floor is not quite the full "open concept," but we're hoping to have the partial wall that divides the dining room from the kitchen removed or reduced in coming years. Otherwise the living room, dining room, and foyer are all pretty open.

The ell, which as I recall is between 400 and 425 sqft, is one large room and had a separate wood stove in the northeast corner. I plan to re-install a smaller wood stove there to heat that room. It connects to the rest of the home with a door and is also insulated in the walls and ceiling. It’s the oldest part of the structure and probably at least somewhat drafty.

All ceilings in the home are 8' high.

Here is a sketch of the first floor floorplan:



Chimney
-=-=-=-=-=-
The brick chimney starts in the basement and runs up through all three floors. The chimney is in the exact center of the house. It has an old metal liner in it that I believe was installed when the (now defunct) steam boiler in the basement was installed, but I plan to have it relined with a 6" flue when we have a wood stove installed. There is no fireplace with this chimney, only a 6" hole on the first floor that has a decorative plate stuck over it--this was connected to one of the two wood stoves the previous owners removed.

The defunct steam boiler in the basement is attached with an 8” flue, but the existing port on the first floor for a wood stove is 6”.

Supplemental Heat
-=-=-=-=-=-
The first floor has plenty of supplemental heat. Two forced air propane in-wall heaters, one in the foyer and one in the living room. Baseboard heating in the kitchen, attached washroom, and bathroom. Powerful electric wall units in the ell and butler’s pantry.

The second and third floors have no heat. The second floor used to have steam radiators in each room, but they have been removed.

My goal is to heat primarily with the two wood stoves I’m purchasing.

Woodstock Soapstone Company
-=-=-=-=-=-
Thank you so much for mentioning this company. I initially dismissed them because I’d decided early on that I didn’t want cat heating based on what really was very little evidence at that point. After further researching the issue, I’m planning a trip up to see them very soon. I live one hour from Lebanon.

I am considering the Progress Hybrid for our main heater (living room of 1st floor) and a Keystone for the ell. I'll be asking Woodstock if I can make smallish fires in the Keystone to not overpower that area.

Wood
-=-=-=-=-=-
I have no wood. I was planning to place an order this week from Southern New Hampshire Firewood, who offers fully seasoned kiln-dried firewood as one of their options. I was planning to buy 8 cords since I’m not sure how much I’ll need.

Once I’m established I figured I can start a rolling stream of wood to season myself, but this year is hard because we’re moving in and getting ready for winter all in a short timespan.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Grisu]

Thanks for that detailed reply. Not sure if the picture shows the whole floorplan. It certainly does not look like your home will be easy to heat with a stove from just one location. Your house layout suggests you may be better off with a convective than a radiant stove. A radiant stove will disproportionally more heat the room it is in before the heat will travel to other rooms. Soapstone stoves are more radiant stoves. (Rule of thumb: The higher the required clearances the more radiant a stove is. Convective stoves usually have pretty low clearance requirements.) A convective stove will preferentially heat up the air around it which can then be moved (passive convection, or actively with some fans) to other parts of the house.

You will likely need a large stove and thinking about an extra-large one like the Equinox is not a bad idea either but that is also a rather radiant stove. Same for the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. For a large convective stove, I would look at the following models: Jotul F55, Pacific Energy T6, Quadrafire Explorer 3 (new stove, no reviews yet), Hearthstone Manchester. They all require a 6" flue which would fit with the wall thimble you have. How high up is that from the floor?

The liner from the steam boiler is unlikely to be suitable for a wood stove so your idea of pulling it out is a good one. Get an insulated liner in there that will help with draft and ensure you have the required clearances for safety.

Kiln-dried wood will work and get you going for the first winter. 8 cords is a good amount; I hope you won't need that much. I would inquire if it has been heated to get below 20% moisture or only to kill bugs. The latter may still be more ~25% and would benefit from a few more months drying in your yard.

The nice thing about a cat stove is that you can turn the air lower and due to the cat still get heat and no smoke out of the chimney. Thus, you should be able to fill the Keystone, dial it down and have it burn for 12 hours or so. That is not possible with a secondary burn stove where you indeed will need to build smaller fires to get less heat. 400 sqft is not much but if some of that heat gets out of the room it will help in heating the rest of the house.

 

[JA600L]

The progress hybrid is a radiant stove. Woodstock says all their stoves are radiant. Although, the Ideal Steel is very much a convective stove. It has side radiators with holes in the side covers leading down to the floor. This should cause somewhat of a convective flow from the floor up through the sides. It can also be fitted with a rear heat shield that also helps convection.

I cannot say whether the Progress has these features or not. Woodstock is always modest about their ratings and specs. They are careful not to under sell you. Either way it is definitely a whole house heater. The only question is whether your home can work well with a woodstove.

 

[Coalescent]

Thank you for all of the information and advice.

You're right, the picture does not show the whole floorplan. I excluded the second ell (to the north) which contains an enclosed finished porch and workroom that isn't heated. The area I intend to heat with the Progress Hybrid is just the 26x28 main house, first and second floor. I'm not worried about getting much heat to the finished attic at this point.

I drove down to Woodstock Soapstone Co. and spoke with the guys there, took a tour of their facility and whatnot. Great people and I was extremely impressed by their craftsmanship and attention to detail. I explained my situation to the guy who helped me out, gave him basically the same information I provided here. I probably painted a clearer picture for him as he asked me several questions I hadn't thought to include here. He believes I can install some registers to the second floor bedrooms, possibly in the wall between the living room and the stairwell to the second floor, and possibly between the ell with the Keystone and the rest of the house (one high on the wall and one low) to get a convective air cycle going.

For what it's worth, he does think the Progress Hybrid will heat my home well. He was of the opinion that the Ideal Steel Hybrid would heat up the small living room space too much and I'd probably be better off with the PH. His home has a similar setup and size to the main part of my house and he heats two floors with his Fireview and some well placed registers.

I will research the other stoves you suggested, Grisu--thanks for the feedback. Going to Woodstock really sold me on that company, though, and if a product of theirs will heat my home effectively, I'm going to give them my business if I can. I was very favorably impressed.

 

[Grisu]

Kudos for stopping by at the Woodstock factory. The many happy owners here are a testament to their top notch stove design, manufacturing and customer service. If you go for the Progress just be aware that its more radiant nature may potentially make the living room a bit warmer than the rest of the house. Perhaps it's not a disadvantage but you would consider it a desirable feature. The Progress is also a side-loader; take that into account when designing the hearth.

I would try first heating the home without cutting registers. If you think it will be necessary look into fusible link dampers that close automatically when there is a fire. Otherwise, you may have a fire spreading quickly through the house.

Good luck stove hunting.

 

[Coalescent]

The progress hybrid is a radiant stove. Woodstock says all their stoves are radiant. Although, the Ideal Steel is very much a convective stove. It has side radiators with holes in the side covers leading down to the floor. This should cause somewhat of a convective flow from the floor up through the sides. It can also be fitted with a rear heat shield that also helps convection.

I cannot say whether the Progress has these features or not. Woodstock is always modest about their ratings and specs. They are careful not to under sell you. Either way it is definitely a whole house heater. The only question is whether your home can work well with a woodstove.

Thanks JA! I brought the convection/radiation issue up with Woodstock when I visited, and asked about the Ideal Steel they had front and center in their showroom. Because my living room is so small, they felt the Ideal Steel could potentially blast us out of that room if we had it running to heat the whole home all winter... whereas the Progress Hybrid's "softer" heat (and lower surface temps, I assume) should make that room, while warmer than the rest of the house, still usable.

 

[JA600L]

I'm glad you made the trip! The Ideal Steel does throw a lot of heat out the front and top. I'm not sure why it would heat you out of the room, but they know best.

I included a picture of what I consider convective components of the Ideal Steel.