non combustible wall clearance questions.

[jeepin in maine]

getting ready to put up my durorock and had a few quick questions.
1.how much air space at the top and bottom do you guys reccomend/or is required?
2.are the reduced clearances in my quad manual measured to the combustible wall or the non combustible wall(1/2 durorock with 1" copper spacers behind it)?
thanks.

 

[begreen]

1" top and bottom. The clearance measurements are minimum distance to combustible materials, not the wall shield.

 

[jeepin in maine]

can i have more than an inch at the bottom or is that code?
if my manual says 7" to back of stove for reduced clearances,that 7" is to the original combustible wall?

 

[begreen]

There is no problem with more than 1". Yes, though I read 7.5" for a double-wall pipe install.

 

[Brian VT]

Are copper spacers (plumbing pipe?) acceptable ? I was wondering if they needed to be like insulators or something.

 

[begreen]

I've used cut down copper pipe in the past. Works ok, 3/8" is ideal if you can find some, but 1/2" works. Just don't put the spacers directly behind the stove and you'll be ok.

 

[Brian VT]

Got it. Thanks. Sorry for cutting in J.I.M.

 

[Highbeam]

All,

The "reduced clearances" have nothing to do with your wall shield. The reduced clearances are because of the use of double wall pipe, corrrect? If the reduced clearances have nothing to do with a wallshield then you have no requirements in regards to that wallshield, no air gap is needed, and you can use anything you want for spacers as long as they are not combustible.

Back in the olden days when the fire code was used as a universal installation tool then a wall shield mattered. Today it is just for looks.

 

[jeepin in maine]

so my wall shield does not allow me to install the stove to the reduced clearance specs listed in the manual if i'm using single wall pipe?

 

[begreen]

For the stove in question, that is correct. You need double wall pipe to achieve the clearance reduction as clearly stated in the manual's table. For other stoves, like Jotul, that have tested with approved wall shields for clearance reduction, the wall shield is required to achieve that clearance reduction.

 

[jeepin in maine]

ok so i called our local quad dealer,explained the situation to him,and now i'm even more confused.
he said he'll gladly sell me the pipe but that it may not be necessary.he said even though its a listed stove and quad gives specified clearances for the stove itself,that for the black single wall pipe to refer to pipe manufacturers specs for reduced clearance.in doing that he says it reverts back to nfpa 211....which says that a non combustible wall with 1" air space reduces clearances by up to 50%.
i explained to him that my owners manual states for reduced clearances on chimey and connector refer to note 2.note 2 says 6" double wall insulated connector pipe.he says...look at the diagram.. clearance to the back of the collar is 19" nfpa 211 says you can reduce clearance up to 50 % so your good to go in my book.he said look at it this way.if you had no manual,and no tag on the stove,then thats what the inspector is going to refer to.
so i called or local fire inspector.he says refer to the manual or contact my local dealer for assistance..i explained to him that the manual and the dealer have me confused.his answer was hopefully you get it figured out before monday when i come by.
my clearances to combustibles are as follows and i have a non combustible wall 5' wide floor to ceiling with a 1 " air space behind it.
A:i'm at 16.5" ..manual states 19" to combustible,10 for reduced
D:i'm at 13.5" manual states 16" to combustible 7 for reduced
i scanned my clearance page as its different than the 1 begreen posted(thanks btw)but it says its to large to attach and i'm unsure how to fix it.. so heres a crappy camera phone pic.

would pipe shields help?

 

[begreen]

Yes, I have the ACC manual. Is your stove the ACT? In the ACC manual there is a sentence permitting local authority to accept a clearance variation. Craig or JTP may have some input here too.

However, one thing is not clear to me. Many stove clearance minimums are established by the distance of the connector pipe from the wall. But I notice in the 4300 ACC manual that for single wall the minimum distance from pipe to wall is listed at 15.5" How can this be when single wall requires 18"? That one has me perplexed. If I am correct your local authority may say that the single wall pipe needs shielding as well. That's my interpretation, but I could be wrong. Hopefully we can get some more dialog going on this spec.

 

[jeepin in maine]

my stove has a report date of oct. 94,so i'm unsure if its act or not.it just has manual primary and secondary air control.
i have no problem running pipe shields if it will help.

 

[begreen]

Sorry off on a tangent with the 4300ACC. Can you PM me with the original, full-sized image of your stove manual's clearance table? I'll post it for you.

From what you've said, it sounds like the inspector just wants someone else to do the thinking. I think the dealer's logic is sound. Ask if he will write up a quick note about the stove complying with NPFA 211 wall shield 50% clearance reductions. Then print up the NPFA table, and have his note + the manual there.

 

[jeepin in maine]

still says its too large.

 

[begreen]

Send it by email, that should work.

 

[jeepin in maine]

 

[begreen]

There ya go. That clause at the bottom referring to NFPA 211 is what your dealer is talking about. It has you covered for the 50% reduction with your NFPA 211 approved wall shield. Looks like you're ready to go. Did you already post a picture of the installation?

 

[jeepin in maine]

i really appreciate your help.i guess will see how things go monday.

 

[Highbeam]

That clause is freaking wonderful. If all stove manuals had that clause then I think we would see more people putting in wall shields.

To be sure, it only refers to the stove. For example, you couldn't furtherreduce the 10" reduced rear clearance to the double wall stovepipe by 50% because then you would be below the 6" clearance sticker on that pipe.

Good luck on Monday.